Am I crazy/ irresponsible to choose vbac? - Page 2

[milkybean]

"The doctor said the baby was stuck and they'd need to use the vacuum to get him out. When that happened, he did come out. He had a broken collarbone."

Well, I would think about that. From what I know, broken collarbones with dystocia are generally collarbones that ARE broken by the care provider. So with the dude using the vacuum and breaking the collarbone, and probably causing that 4th degree tear with the vacuum and his hands all up in there, I would say run FAR from that dude again! Seems pretty, um, interestingly competent to me.

Originally Posted by twokidsfarm

She told me that that the shoulder dystocia was a huge risk to take. That the baby could lose use of the limb completely.


I...no reason for me to have trouble birthing a "normal" sized baby. That said, she really advised against vbac b/c of the prior dystocia.

I'm SURE you know the major risks of anesthesia and surgery. I'm sure that those risks are far scarier to you, as they are to me, than the doctor breaking the collarbone again and messing up the kids' arm nerves.


If a provider says "you could do it but I'd advise against it" that's CYA talking. That's agreement with malpractice insurance company talking. That's not human talking to human talking...

Originally Posted by twokidsfarm

This is why my husband feels like he does. He's stated that if we were in another time and place, he probably wouldn't have a son or a wife now. The delivery room looked like a murder scene to him. Then he sees me go through the c/s so "easily". It's so controlled. The time, the place, what's happening to me. And honestly I did recover quicker from the c/s than our son's birth.

I think hubby isn't thinking really well about the whole thing. My hubby would certainly think that the c/s scene he witnessed was a murder scene, and since I had passed out entirely he stood to watch it, to "make sure they didn't kill" me. And they quite nearly did. Perhaps having your hubby watch some nice, normal, messy births would help him? There's blood involved in birthing.

I'm sure it was disturbing for your hubby to see all the stuff going on with your vagina, with vacuum things and hands and all. That's not good!

But I know my hubby would really wonder about it, that your hubby felt that having an OB's hands in your abdominal cavity, after cutting and taking things out, was BETTER than the Birth... Seems like maybe hubby has cut himself off emotionally a bit? My hubby still cries, shakes, when he thinks of the c/s. It was the worst sight he ever saw. He gets worried about people who watch them without feeling that way.

Now, I woudln't VBAC with the providers you have, absolutely not. I would homebirth. Heck, I'm me, and I plan to UBAC, b/c ALL providers feel dangerous to me. I had a homebirth midwife that people gushed over, and she changed policies, lied, and turned on me (she and her partner), and I cannot tell you the feeling of betrayal that happens with a homebirth midwife becomes your destroyer (that sounds exaggerated, but it's how I felt and feel).

Anyway, obviously even with a shoulder dystocia I'd feel safer without that CNM (I assume?) and OB around...would prefer a true and knowledgeable home-based midwife for a VBAC. And that is regardless of insurance.

[langdonslady]

With all due respect to your husband, he's not the one birthing this baby. Neither is your doctor. You are. And you, not they, bear the consequences of birth for better or worse. My DH was scared of my decision to HBAC (home VBAC) but he was scared of what had happened to me in the hospital with the failed induction, epi, and section. The fact that he was scared of birth couldn't be the deciding factor for me.
You wouldn't even be having to ask if you were crazy, if you lived on another continent, that's how crazy the birthing industry is. "What a difference an ocean makes" is one of my favorite quotes, because living on one side of one as opposed to another would seem to dictate whether a VBAC is safest or least safe in the eyes of the medical establishment.
I truly believe I did the right thing having my 10 lb 2 oz VBAC baby at home, naturally, and felt in my bones at the time that a hospital "attempt" would have been predestined to fail because my OB who called herself "pro-VBAC" practiced inductions on VBAC (which was known to be a no-no back in the 90's when VBACs were acceptable, and is now, in the age of pro-caesarean birth industry, suddenly ok, perhaps because it results in more sections?) any way, this pro-VBAC OB thought inducing on a VBAC was perfectly fine and also thought that going even to 40 weeks was too risky.

Well, I went into labor naturally, two days after that 40 weeks, and was prepared to go to 42, which is the true range of normal gestation. You aren't crazy, and there are great sources for information available at www.hencigoer.com and www.ican-online.org and many others.

Just remember, if women in other parts of the world aren't "postdates" til 42 weeks, and in other parts of the world, VBAC is known to carry less risk (so long as inductions aren't part of it!) than repeat section, why are we expected to believe that biology is so different in the US?

[Panthira]

Let me tell you my experience:

I had twins by csection, and 12 yrs later I became pregnant. I knew I did not want another csection and I went to several OBs who all advised me against a VBAC. I finally found a pro-vbac OB recommended by ICAN. It was good, and I went to my OB appts faithfully. I went into labor 2.5 weeks early, and it scared me because my water had broken. When I went into the hospital, they checked the baby (who'd not moved at ALL since my water broke) and he was fine, but then they wanted to hook me up to monitors. My doctor, it turns out, was out of town at this time. I was concerned and called my doula. She advised me to leave the hospital ASAP against medical advice, which I did, hearing the whole time how I was putting my baby at risk. DH wanted me to stay,but I told him I was having to go through whole process, not him, so he supported me. I went home and spent the next 48 HOURS laboring. The hospital called me to tell me how I was endangering my baby several times during this period, scaring me and stressing me out. I think it delayed my labor. Everytime I thought of going into the hospital, my labor would stall. Finally, I headed in and spent the next 6 hours laboring in the hospital amidst doctors and nurses who monitored me and stressed me out and talked csection, and when back labor hit hard (He was posterior and was turning at that point) I heard the OB mention to another OB that they were going to have to take me to the OR. Heck no. I managed to relax, look inside myself, and baby came out in 5 minutes along with the CUT the doctor made to my opening without asking me first. OUCH for the next week. I had my VBAC, and was victorious, but I didn't like the stress.

I became pregnant again, and this time i wanted midwives, but again, DH would not agree to a homebirth and though I tried, I could not convince him. I wish I had. I went to a hospital and had a medwife, and while the labor and birth were better, it still meant intervention with IV, monitoring, and having to follow the hospital rules. The worst thing is the 24 hours after birth when nurses would not leave my baby alone!

I quickly became pregnant again due to an oops moment, and I told DH I didn't care what he thought anymore, I was going to homebirth. My insurance said they did not cover a homebirth, but I found a group of midwives who said they would bill my ins anyway, after the birth. I paid them in payments. I had a glorious HBAC, and it was beautiful. Why had I never done that before?? I wish I had. The midwives billed my insurance and I receive 80% (out of network) reimbursement, and even though they didn't cover a homebirth, they HAD to pay by law.

I would suggest to you to choose a homebirth. Don't waste such a beautiful thing on horrible hospitals. If you really don't have it in you to fight for a homebirth, then at least get a doula who will have your back in a hospital. My doula saved me from a repeat csection. Good luck.

[maotmsmi]

I would say that you should really, really consider finding someone supportive of your VBAC. Laboring at home for as long as possible is a great idea but if your care provider is not truly supportive of your VBAC, they will try and pressure you into a c/s to cover themselves.

With my attempted VBAC I had chosen the best provider for a non-homebirth option. They have done hundreds of VBACs. I planned to labor at home and wait until the baby's head was crowning until I went to the hospital Although he came a long, long way while I was pregnant with DS#2, My husband was not comfortable with a homebirth. Unfortunately, 42 weeks came and went and I still had not gone into labor. At that point my once supportive FP doctors were getting nervous and worried about covering their tails. I began to be threatened repeatedly that I was going to kill my son waiting for labor to happen. When you are pregnant you can only take so much ya know? I agreed to be induced and when you are in a hospital, no matter how hard you fight, it leads to many more interventions. Pregnancy is not the time to be second guessing yourself. Get someone who believes in your body. You've done it before and this time CAN be better!

Next time it will definitely be a HBA2C for me. I hated when I was pregnant and I would always hear "you should have a homebirth, a homebirth is the only way to go, etc". I always thought, "Hey, that's great for you but not really an option for me (because DH didn't approve). I'll have my hospital VBAC and next time i'll go for the homebirth." Sadly, I should have listened to them (and told DH off- LOL) as now I'm trying to cope with a 2nd scar on my uterus. Maybe homebirth is not what is best for you but whatever you decide make sure it's something you won't regret later, no matter what the outcome.

Good luck!

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by MommyKrista

I hated when I was pregnant and I would always hear "you should have a homebirth, a homebirth is the only way to go, etc". I always thought, "Hey, that's great for you but not really an option for me (because DH didn't approve). I'll have my hospital VBAC and next time i'll go for the homebirth." Sadly, I should have listened to them (and told DH off- LOL) as now I'm trying to cope with a 2nd scar on my uterus. Maybe homebirth is not what is best for you but whatever you decide make sure it's something you won't regret later, no matter what the outcome.

Good luck!

s. i am one of those who say that to pregnant women and see their expressions. Eitehr its a non supportive dh or finances, etc. etc. Unfortunately, it really does come down to finding a needle in a hay stack. Yes, its possible...but very difficult to do and like you said, it comes down to having someone supportive of VBACs.

Im 42 weeks tomorrow. As a hba2cs, i wouldnt have a chance at a hospital vbac in my area. This is why im such an advocate of home birth now...its really the only solution for many of us vbacs b/c of the hospital and dr. procedures. I don't "bash" drs. and hopsitals just for the fun of it....I truly wish they would "get it" but like other things, they just don't.

I hope you get your hba2cs. i had a vba2cs 2.9 years ago in a free standing birth center. Although much better and ultimately successful than a hospital, there were things i would change, which is why im doing a home birth this time.

[twokidsfarm]

Update:

I did go to my former 'medwife' for my last appointment. It was definitely a better reception. While she didn't just stand up and cheer for my decision, she said she could understand why I'd want to do this vbac. She just said that she might change to a more c-section stance if the baby began to look big towards the end. I'm not really worried about that. I know that their interpretation of baby size is usually quite off. (They guessed I was carrying a 7-1/2 lb baby with my 10 lb boy. ) I just feel better now that each time I see them, they won't be saying "Changed your mind yet about that c/s?" I've read more books. I've read more success stories. I'm just focusing on firming myself in my decision. I know how this needs to happen.

Thanks for all the support!

[FlowerMomma]

I think you should fight for your right to a VBAC! It is so wrong that you have to "fight" for it, but it is worth it IMO. My VBAC was such a positive healing expierience, I can't imagine if I had just resigned myself to a CS. I think that you will find talking to everyone here and in any research that you do, that the risk is not nearly as great as the medical institution wants you to beleive. Find people who will be positive and supportive and not treat you as though you are a mindless person who is risking the live of your baby. It's not true.

[momm-i-o]

I have a rather strong gut reaction to your whole situation, having been there myself 6 years ago. That was 3 cs ago. A big difference was that I didn't know any alternatives and that hbac was any kind of option. I wouldn't have cared much about what hubby wanted- he didn't suffer from post op problems like I did.

I don't know much about shoulder distocia but I do know that in another time and place you wouldn't have had such an invasion and you would have been able to wait in peace for your big baby to come, strenghtening your chances to have an easier exit route for your baby.

You have to really decide whether you can do this on your own for your own good. There is no one who is going to advocate for you like you will. I spent a long time blaming my hubby for not coming to my rescue when I really was the one who had to put my heart into what I knew to be best. I've had 5 c/s now (the last was a ruptured vbac attempt) and I only wish I'd known half of what you know.

You have a proven pelvis- a big baby has already paved the way!! It is so strange to me that they are against your vbac- after only 1 c/s. That is what I find crazy!! My uterus is so whacked out that they couldn't even give me a hysterectomy after my rupture! That's after 5 c/s. Why would you set yourself up for this when you really don't need to or seem to want to!

I think your hubby needs to work through his birth trauma. Of course our men mean well but they don't seem very logical at times. Read to him the process of a c/s and describe the complications to him. Go to birthcut.com and read some of the stories of c/s gone really bad and see if he doesn't change his mind. Then read some of Ina May's birth stories and have him watch a few you tube birth videos. This worked wonders for my hubby. I wish I knew where it is but there was one with a woman who seemed European who had the most joyous hospital birth I've ever seen. No interventions, hubby was encouraged to catch and she reached forward and grabbed the baby in a great big exaultatious hug! My hubby also needed a little more direction in alternative thinking. The Business of Being Born was a great movie for my hubby. It made birth normal and not dangerous anymore.

In the end though it is you on your own. You are not a victim. If a restaurant served you something you didn't want to eat, you would walk out, especially if it was not what you thought was best for you. You are at the helm of your ship. Don't agree to anything that is not what you know is best. The best for you can change any time you decide it needs to. They only know what their textbooks tell them, you know you. Become the expert in your body and how it functions. I even took on my own prenatal care because I didn't feel that the status quo advice was going to give me the best chances for a vbac. I was treated as a drug addict post partum because of that and my rupture but I can roll my eyes at their ignorance. If they only knew how diligent and protective of my baby I was.

Labor for awhile on your own in a hospital even if you feel better (you'll have to be really strong to turn down interventions) and see how baby moves down. If the baby gets stuck, you can consider cs after all other positions have been exhausted. If at any point in the hospital you want to leave, go home. You are the one in charge and you can only control yourself. I made many choices that I regret and the biggest of all (beyond not getting enough info) was that I cared what the docs and hubby thought, instead of getting their opinions and weighing it with the info I have in an objective manner.

You're not crazy, just wanting to give birth. You can do it!!