AMA trying to make homebirth illegal? - Page 2

[Jaysfamily]

Originally Posted by mommato5

I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.

The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.

[pampered_mom]

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.

:

The other important thing to remember is there there are certification and acreditation systems in place presently. When it comes to CPMs -MEAC provides the acreditation for schools providing midwifery education and NARM provides the certification have educational requirements and a greivance process. The NARM certification process includes both prenatal and postnatal education. I've actually observed the exam given reguarding the newborn exam and it's very thorough - candidates are expected to follow a very specific proceedure. The ACNM also has a good comparison chart of the educational/certification paths taken by both CNM/CMs and CPMs.

That being said, I think what's most important is not further regulation per se, but education and empowerment so that women can make the best decision for themselves as to which care provider would be the best fit.

mommato5 - I would definitely encourage you to review the links I've given above. If your midwife claimed to be a CPM or had NARM certification there is a complaint process available to you. There is also a push out there to pass a law in your state that would help to establish procedures and processes for midwives. I'd encourage you to get into contact with those organizations as well as it's possible you may have something to offer them. Perhaps it might help prevent another mother from your state from experiencing what you've gone through. Unfortunately, as Jaysfamily pointed out there are no guarantees either way.

I am very sorry for your loss.

[mommato5]

Neither system is perfect. If an OB is directly responsible for the death of a baby, they risk legal action. If a midwife is responsible, she can just walk away with no repercussions. Meanwhile, on top of a lawsuit, that DR's premiums are going to jump until he cannot afford to practice anymore. The thing with weighing benefits is that a woman puts her trust into a midwife and we are under the impression that homebirth is safest. The birth may be fine, but, what about afterwards?? There's just so much to think about. I do understand the AMA's position. The talk about women and choices, how many of us choose for our babies to die due to a negligent midwife?? Midwives are not trained well here. I juist can't really get angry with the AMA because I see the reasoning behind everything. The death of a baby affects somebody to their core, even the DR's. My Dr's weren't involved in the life saving efforts of my daughter, but, it has affected them and their entire office. I just want people to look at it from a DR's perspective instead of trying to Say "They are taking away my choice".

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

The same things happen in hospital births too. The licensing and insurance of OBs does not prevent the bad ones from practicing. There's no way for me to check up on any bad scenarios my OB has been involved in either. I'm sorry you and your baby didn't receive the care you deserved. It's certainly a tragedy. However, government and medical model interference in the midwifery system is no guarantee that bad midwives won't still be allowed to work, just like it still allows bad Obsetricians to work. Many midwives also see women who have been traumatized by their obstetricians and hospital births, so it works both ways. I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this.

[harrietsmama]

Originally Posted by mommato5

I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.

Well, having doula'd for a long time, and attending many homebirths also as well as being friends with lots of midwives and apprentices, and working for an advocacy group, I have seen it from both sides. I have seen births turn into train wrecks for absolutely no reason other than fear introduced by docs who spoon feed more and more until everything is going wrong. I have also seen a CNM totally screw up a BCB because she insisted on arom, then had mom push, but she reverse dilated after the arom and swelled all up, cnm couldn't even get a cath in to empty her bladder which was coming down, I could have done it myself, with no credentials! and she got sectioned just because the cnm was afraid of an intact bow. I have also heard my share of women grieve over their homebirths, baby deaths, almost bleeding to death, watching mother and baby both in bad shape (bad dystocia, needs ppv but the tank isn't set up right, placenta comes with six cups of blood) not fun, very scary for everyone there, but fortunately that one turned out ok.

I agree that 40 births sounds like a small number, but if you are apprenticing, it takes about 70 to 100 births to get all the requirements of those 40, if you are lucky and have a lot of good births. I think a good thing to add would be training for senior midwives before they can accept apprentices. Working under a midwife who's attended 2000 births is waaaaay different than apprenticing with someone who's been practicing for 2 years. kwim?

[loveyourohana]

Well, My two cents. I think its the hospitals and dr.s who need revamping, way more than the midwife! I say this because if the population of womens care begins to move towards midwifes more there is usually reason for this. I have found for myself that I don't like my freedom and the freedom of how I deliver, or the safety of my child, and the safety of myself compromised with hospital staff and lack of knowledge and poor decisions within a hospital setting.

I would put my birth in the hands of a midwife, before I would go down that road of a hospital birth again, at least not without a midwife! So even though neither system is perfect, I think the midwife is the choice myself and of many for a very very good reason! I find it safer, kinder, more loving, and I believe there to be less risk to my baby with a midwife!!!!! Most women I know that wake up to what is happening in the hospital births, and see that having a midwife IS safer, they also switch to midwifes.

Who has their baby in a hospital without a midwife these days? I think THAT is what is causing the AMA to try to pass what they are passing!

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by mommato5

I don't think the AMA should outlaw it. However, alot of things need revamped.

Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see. They need not only training on pregnancy/labor/childbirth but also on the newborn and what signs to watch out on. They should have to spend a certain amount of time with a newborn and mom to make sure all is ok. They should have to carry insurance instead of thinking they are above the law and can do whatever they want. Personally, after all I have been through, I think there should only be CNM's, but, I know it's just not going to happen. I just want to see midwives with more and better training. If a midwife is going through something and cannot think clearly, she should NOT be practicing.

I understand the thinking behind the AMA. They see what happens in a homebirth gone wrong. I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive. I've seen the room full of personnel crying over this baby who didn't have to die. Until you've lived it, you'll just see the AMA as horrible people trying to take away your rights. I'm not saying that in a mean way, so please don't take it that way. I have lived this.

Ugh! I'm so sorry that you had to witness that!

It is an unfortunate truth that no profession is immune from incompetent practitioners. That is why we need adequate training, (I agree with PP's that NARM already provides that for out-of-hospital CPMs), regulation, and sanctions. Licensing Certified Professional Midwives does just that.

Licensing doesn't just protect midwives; it protects women and babies by making midwives accountable. IF the issue for the AMA were safety, the organization would support licensing CPMs.

But every time midwives try to set up statewide licensing systems, the AMA is there to stop them.

[loveyourohana]

"The same things happen in hospital births too... I think the important thing is that each women be allowed to weigh the risks for her baby, and for herself, and that SHE gets to decide what works best for her family. The AMA opposes this."

:

" (I agree with PP's that NARM already provides that for out-of-hospital CPMs), regulation, and sanctions. Licensing Certified Professional Midwives does just that... But every time midwives try to set up statewide licensing systems, the AMA is there to stop them."

and :

"Midwives need more training than what they currently get. They need to also be regulated. If something happens, they should have to stop practicing until the proper authorities can investigate thouroughly and it should remain on record for all potential clients to see."

I would like to see this happening with Drs and staff as well!!!! I have a way better chance of holding a midwife liable for bad judgment calls than I do any Doctor, Nurse or Anasthesiologist sp?... or other hospital staff... Bigger money, better lawyers!

"I've, sadly, seen a dr walk away crying after trying desperately to save a baby who, had the baby been transfered at the first warning sign, would of been alive."


NO ONE likes to see this happen... unfortunately it does, and in my studies I have found it to be more of a threat in a hospital than with a midwife... I am sooo sorry that you witnessed this HUGS, no one should have to experience a bad judgement death of a newborn EVER...

What about those deaths from reactions to needless medical intervention, or wrong prescriptions, or wrong calls from a Dr, or staff? Hugs to anyone witnessing a newborn passing!

A newborn passed away in a hospital near us because instead of giving the baby oxygen, a mistake was made, and that newborn was given something other than oxygen, and died.) If only that child had been born at home with a midwife, that child would still be alive today! My heart goes out to those precious lifes as well!

You are going to have bad experiences and tragedies on either side, its unfortunate, and sad, but there will always be mistakes made on BOTH sides. I just know that the freedom of birth is there for the mother and father more so with a midwife, and the numbers of death and tragedy are lower than hospital births. I think this says volumes on who really needs revamping? One has a higher rate of manufactured drugs, the other has a higher rate of using natural means to help have a baby. Choosing a midwife, or choosing a OBGYN is my choice to make, not the AMA's, its the woman birthing who has that right. I chose a hospital birth for my first baby and hated the pitocin, I hated the lies about circ. I hated the way I was treated, and I had a horrible experience!!! I hated that my choice became nothing, and I don't believe it was safe for my son, or for me. I hated the fact that I was told my son was in grave danger and I needed to be started, and I was lied to! I asked after, and the truth came out!!!! Talk about ANGRY!!!!! I was started out of conv... According to them, no harm was done... so I had no case!!! I beg to differ! I was robbed of an experience that should have been of my choosing, not Dr. needs to go out on a date tonight, so get this over with. If it isn't in time... C section... and no liability if nothing goes wrong?

I truly think that if midwifes were not allowed the freedom to do as they do, more bad than good would come of it... part of what makes it so good is the ability to really listen to instinct by all those involved... You have to really dig for a good midwife... but you have to dig for a really good Dr. as well!

If the AMA started requesting more use of hospital methods for midwifes, and outlawed UC etc. etc. they will have taken the right for a woman to birth the way she would like... and that is slap in the face to womens rights!!!

Midwife at home, in hospital or hospital staff are completely seperate ways of birthing, and its a choice to be made by the women giving birth. How long have we been doing this again? There are just as many Dr.s who have blamed a death of a newborn on other reasons, and go home knowing that if another choice had been made, that baby would be alright.

There are Dr.s ignoring the vaccination reactions pitocin use reactions and long term effects etc. they are able to just not be held accountable if something goes wrong... throw the blame on the possibilities of something else... and that bothers me and should others as well... this is causing devistating results, with no liabilty from the one who Coursed a decision making one feel no choice was there, that took the quality of life from a child because of drug reaction in the first place!!! No responsibility, lies and deception.... AMA Start looking at the real problem, instead of taking action against the midwife! Womens RIGHTS, Womens CHOICE, Our BIRTH....

I NO LONGER trust the AMA, the CDC or Big Pharma! I truly believe the revamping needs to happen where trust is being lost. Neither system is perfect, but I would take a midwife over the other anyday!

A way to stop them!!! Lots and lots of people signing petitions, calling state reps, and writing local hospitals that are getting rid of Midwifes. I think that is a good start... more and more women Using midwifes in hospital or out, donations all of that!

I believe that the real question of medical staff, Hospital Boards, AMA, etc... really needs to be, Why are more mothers choosing Homebirth, and truly make a change in Staff, and client relationships. Fix what is broken in the hospitals, GUN up and take responsibility before throwing stones!

If for some crazy reason the AMA succeeds... I WILL be either having an illegal birth... or traveling outside the United States of America to have my children, and that is just sad! I am truly proud to be an American, as long as my rights as a mother and woman are NOT withdrawn!