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What do you think about cub scouts? see #53 - Page 3

post #41 of 80
Can you tell me what they do? Are there meetings...how often? Do they make stuff at the meetings?
post #42 of 80
I do not support the BSA for all the reasons stated. My DH doesn't have a problem with it and my BIL and SIL are heavily involved with their two boys. I will say their personal experiences seem very positive and my DNs love it, but again it goes back to what the organization widely believes.

No one here has mentioned Camp Fire USA. It's co-ed and I was a member of it as a young girl. It seems like a pretty cool organization.
post #43 of 80
Wow! I never knew the Boy Scouts became so close minded! That is really awful.

I was in Girl Scouts and enjoyed it. Got my Silver Award, didn't make it to Gold though, as our troop was a little disorganized. lol

And I'm bi... and never had any issues there... *shrugs*
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSMa View Post
Wow! I never knew the Boy Scouts became so close minded! That is really awful.

I was in Girl Scouts and enjoyed it. Got my Silver Award, didn't make it to Gold though, as our troop was a little disorganized. lol

And I'm bi... and never had any issues there... *shrugs*
The GS don't have a problem with sexuality issues, and although their promise includes a reference to God, the girls are permitted and encouraged to say the promise in accordance with their own beliefs. If that icludes another name for a higher power or none at all, that's cool.
post #45 of 80
There are also other reasons to be wary of Cub Scouts. I personally have no problem with God being apart of it. What my dh and I do find unsettling is the Oaths the boys take. My ds was all set to start Cub Scouts. We bought the first book and read through it. The boys have to promise to "follow the pack" and obey their leader. Dh and I have a BIG problem with that. We are raising our children to make their own choices and not "follow the pack". Also, I am NOT going to support my child having to promise to obey their cub scout leader. I worry about this mentality and I think the loyalty that is given to the leaders just sets things up for sexual abuse.

*disclaimer* I am not saying that every leader will abuse.

Plus, they lose so many little boys up in the mountains here during scout camp. We live in Utah and we are LDS. Scouting is huge here. We decided that my ds would not participate. My dh does "scout" type activities with ds. Our opinion is not popular amongst our friends, family, and neighbors.

We tried explaining our views to a local leader who was asking why our ds was not attending scouts. He said "Well, they do not really have to do those things." So I asked him if he thought we should be telling and encouraging our boys to make promises, take oaths, and then not stick to them. He had nothing else to say except, "just think about it."
post #46 of 80
If I have son I would not let him join Scouts in the States. In Canada, depending on the actual troup, I probably would. As far as I know Scouts here is not anti-homosexual and it includes both boys and girls (though I believe some groups are just for boys, others just for girls, and others co-ed). My husband had a great experience scouting and it really made an impact on him having real leadership opportunities as a teenager -- guiding canoe trips and leading courses. He doesn't like the religion aspect, though. Also, not all groups are created equal.
post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippi L. View Post
If I have son I would not let him join Scouts in the States. In Canada, depending on the actual troup, I probably would. As far as I know Scouts here is not anti-homosexual and it includes both boys and girls (though I believe some groups are just for boys, others just for girls, and others co-ed).
It is important to note that most of us are discussing Boy Scouts of America (BSA), not Boy Scouting in other countries. Girl Scouts is also a totally separate organization from Boy Scouts.
post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by readytobedone View Post
yeah, i pretty much think boy scouts is a creepy organization. if you look into the history, i believe you'll see that scouting emerged around the turn of the 20th century as a means of creating "healthy" citizens. really, it was part of a larger cultural project of eugenics, and a lot of the exclusionary policies it has to this day reflect that.
Boy scouts were created in 1907 in the UK as a direct result of the Boer War by Robert Baden-Powell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_...n_Baden-Powell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scouting

Quote:
Scouting, also known as the Scout Movement, is a worldwide youth movement with the stated aim of supporting young people in their physical, mental and spiritual development, so that they may play constructive roles in society.

Scouting began in 1907 when Robert Baden-Powell, Lieutenant General in the British Army, held the first Scouting encampment at Brownsea Island in England. Baden-Powell wrote the principles of Scouting in Scouting for Boys (London, 1908), based on his earlier military books, with influence and support of Frederick Russell Burnham (Chief of Scouts in British Africa), Seton of the Woodcraft Indians, Smith of the Boys' Brigade, and his publisher Pearson. During the first half of the 20th century, the movement grew to encompass three major age groups each for boys (Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Rover Scout) and, in 1910, a new organization, Girl Guides, was created for girls (Brownie Guide, Girl Guide and Girl Scout, Ranger Guide).
No mention of eugenics, though frankly everything was laced with eugenics back then. If you ever read about the Siege of Mafeking, during the Boer War, BP wrote some interesting commentary on tactics used by the cadet corps
who
Quote:
he was sufficiently impressed with both their courage and the equanimity with which they performed their tasks to use them later as an object lesson in the first chapter of Scouting for Boys.
btw, BP's scouting book was called "scouting for boys" which always cracks my dh up.

BP is/was a national hero in the UK.

The entire scouts discrimination issue really disturbs my dh. He is from the UK and believes the strongly conservative religious nature of scouting came after his time/is an American thing. But even so, he is embarrassed/upset that a group that meant so much to him has taken such a horrible turn. He wonders if it was always like that - like finding out that a favorite uncle was beating his wife or something and you never knew, ya know?
post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by harrietsmama View Post
On the other hand, it is about the only group thing available in our area unless we do 4H and add lots of animals to our already large and varied menagerie, and I have no idea how much 'group' ness there is involved.
Ditto what others said, 4-H doesn't have to be animals and it doesn't have to mean lots of new animals. I was in 4-H in jr high and high school and my project was cats -- I showed housecats, the plain ol' boring kind that you already own. It's a spectacular organization, welcoming to everyone, and very down-to-earth about encouraging kids to be themselves even within the organization. I was a 4-H leader until a couple months before DD arrived and the program is very much based around best practices in child development, from non-competitive participation for the youngest up to encouraging the older members to take lead roles and really work for what they earn. Aside from animals, I know our county has programs like computers, motorcycles, cooking, sewing, arts/crafts, performance art, gardening, and all kinds of stuff.

And yeah, Camp Fire is a possibility, too. It's closer in theme/practice to Scouts. (I was in all 3 organizations at one time or another.)
post #50 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
This is one of the things that annoy me. Boy Scouts are allowed in schools as if they're school-sanctioned, yet they don't have to follow federal regulations because they're hiding behind the "private organization" banner. If it were me (and I'm sure it will be in a few years), I would just explain to my son that they believe in things we don't and that we're not going to permit him to be part of them. There are other things I wouldn't let my children do - go to Vacation Bible School at a Baptist church, for instance - and this is just one on the list.
Yeah, I'll be chatting with the school about this as soon as I'm done with my cold :



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
I would have no problem with this. In fact, I would encourage it. They don't really seem to do that, though. If you exclude atheists, then you're not exploring what the pursuit of higher power means for everyone. Plus they don't recognize the Unitarians, so they're no go for me on that, too.
Yeah, most Christians don't truly understand the pursuit of a sense of a higher power



Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades View Post
I was in 4-H and didn't raise animals. I went to consumer judging, extemporaneous speaking (I can't remember their name for it now). I learned a lot from 4-H, and it's something I would encourage my children to do. You definitely can be involved and get a sense of group spirit, especially in terms of rooting for the people from your group even if you share diverse interests.
Well you can tell I haven't checked it out yet! But I think now I will. That sounds cool.
post #51 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aufilia View Post
Ditto what others said, 4-H doesn't have to be animals and it doesn't have to mean lots of new animals. I was in 4-H in jr high and high school and my project was cats -- I showed housecats, the plain ol' boring kind that you already own. It's a spectacular organization, welcoming to everyone, and very down-to-earth about encouraging kids to be themselves even within the organization. I was a 4-H leader until a couple months before DD arrived and the program is very much based around best practices in child development, from non-competitive participation for the youngest up to encouraging the older members to take lead roles and really work for what they earn. Aside from animals, I know our county has programs like computers, motorcycles, cooking, sewing, arts/crafts, performance art, gardening, and all kinds of stuff.

And yeah, Camp Fire is a possibility, too. It's closer in theme/practice to Scouts. (I was in all 3 organizations at one time or another.)
I loved Campfire when I was young - I was a campfire girl all the way from peanuts to Gypsy and my Grandma joined at 11 and was still a member in her 70's. She was waterfront director for over 30 years, and the head honcho for our area for awhile too - can't remember the title. We joined when the kids were little for awhile and the organization is just not the same. I feel such a loss for it. It was so earth/Native American inspired when I was a kid
post #52 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frumpy View Post
My brother did cub scouts all the way through to become an Eagle Scout. I wholeheartedly think that scouting help make him a responsible, thoughtful, and selfless person. He's really a terrific guy.

My husband also did scouting through the Life Scout (one step below Eagle), and he considers scouting to be his most cherished childhood memories. He did a lot of really neat things (especially outdoors) and was exposed to a lot more than he would have been otherwise.
I think this sounds like what the scouting experience is really all about.
It is important to find a good pack with good leaders (or become one yourself).
post #53 of 80
Thread Starter 
Well, last night I explained that we need to find a different group to join because if Grandpa Dirck (On fire drag queen who is the only 'Grandpa' my kids have) wanted to join they wouldn't accept him because he would want to marry boys instead of girls, and they think it's wrong. He told me all the boys in his class want to marry girls, and I said, yeah, that's usually true, but some boys and girls are different and they like another boy or a girl likes another girl. I showed him pictures of Nan, who is my favorite step dad, but she's a woman (not transgender, it's just that I had so many step dads I call her my favorite one ) I still keep in touch with her, but not often enough that the kids know her, she lives too far away.

He agreed that it would be mean to tell Grandpa Dirck he couldn't be part of Boy Scouts so that worked. I am going to check out 4H.
post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by witchygrrl View Post
Dh is an Eagle Scout, and while he'll put it on his resume (employers tend to look favorably on that)
this is something I always heard when I was being pushed kicking and screaming to do my Eagle project (which I never did - hah once I started working on cars - goodbye scouts). I just don't see how that is true or can be substantiated. Nowadays I think the reputation of the BSA has made it so putting that on your Resume might be a bad thing.

I mean think about it... If the employer is heavily involved in scouting, and "drinks the kool-aide" then you are putting on your resume "I am not gay and also I am a christian, please hire me" In which case do you really want the job that "Not gay and christian" is a positive trait for being hired.

Or they are disgusted by the BSA, and you are putting "Bigot" on your resume.

Or they are clueless about scouts so "Eagle" means nothing to them.

Or you are lucky and they used to be involved in scouts and don't know/care about the homosexuality or religion thing.

It seems like the potential for harm or indifference is higher than the potential for good when it comes to putting it on your resume.
post #55 of 80
both my father and brother were scouts and enjoyed the adventure and team work. so much has changed in the last decade or so, and though my father has passed on, i know he would not support a group that discriminates.

forgive me for my lack of time...i did not read each and every post, but did want to say that we recently joined a new spiral scout circle (though we are not pagan, we love the philosophy) and have found it to be welcoming and fun.

http://www.spiralscouts.org/

peace
post #56 of 80
Oohhh the Spiral Scouts sound GREAT and there are some circles in my area :

I would never contribute time or money to the BSA due to the things that have already been discussed on this thread.
post #57 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy View Post
Or they are disgusted by the BSA, and you are putting "Bigot" on your resume.
Okay, I'll admit it. This is the first thing that would come to mind for me. Even if it's subconscious, most people will make some determination about you when they're reading your resume.
post #58 of 80
I have two boys. My husband grew up in Boy Scouts, had a good experience and enjoyed it for the most part, although he reports that his troop became very Lord-of-the-Flies-ish as they got older (lots of aggression and acting out, little to no leadership).

We absolutely won't do BSA. I just can't get over the level of discrimination that is acceptable within the organization. 4H seems like a good option for us if they want a social group like that.
post #59 of 80
Years ago, when BSA was in the process of clarifying their religious stance, I mentored a ten-year-old scout in my UU church for the Religion In Life badge. He worked very hard to earn the badge and was commesurately proud of it.

A few months later, the BSA (or perhaps I'll just call them "BS") ruled that UUs were no longer eligible to earn the Religion In Life badge and took away the one my mentee had previously earned. He was devestated.

Under no circumstances would I consent to my child's involvement with a discriminatory institution like the BS. While I'll happily agree that BS is not anywhere as hateful and discriminatory as, say, the Hitler Youth, I consider it to be a difference of degree rather than kind.
post #60 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by east carolina View Post

What bothers me about the scouts here as elsewhere is that they split boys and girls apart and much of their activity is paramilitary. Keeping sentry at camp all night, being marched around for miles, being dropped off miles away form camp and being told to find your way there blind, etc... (I don't know if they do this in the States, too, but here they still do) I love the idea of a kids' troop that explores nature and goes camping, helps out in the community and all that good stuff, but for my son I will be looking for an organization that is integrated and treats children with respect, so not the local boy or girl scouts.
All of that sounds like fun - but we never did anything like that in GS. Ours was very practical stuff from the 80s - things like career exploration, science badges, computer stuff. Well, we did go camping a few times a year. But I remember a Mary Kaye rep being there to show us how to put on make-up and the inevitable "sex education classes" which really only talked about our plumbing (as my mom put it) and not really about sex at all. We didn't really do a ton with nature but we always volunteered and generally learned how to be a woman in the world. We saw plays in NYC and rode a train to Florida for a trip to Disney. We learned double-dutch jump roping because it was fun. I directed a play for younger girls for my silver award and we learned about different cultures through Juliet Lowe girls. Rode bikes for a bike-a-thon. Helped out at the Special Olympics.

I don't remember much on religion. We had Jewish and Christian girls in the troop and I would have identified as atheist in my later teen years - say 15-18. I was in it all through HS. It was positive for me. But GS is completely different than BS. I later joined ROTC and nothing in scouting really helped me there. There wasn't any military aspect to my GS experience.

I think in the Jr. High years it definitely helped to be segregated by sex.
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