This is puplic school?? - Page 2

[Garden~Lover]

I am going to pay, i would never not pay. I dont think that would teach my son who is almost an adult reposibility. I was just taken back by this. We have never had to "pay" for a class. Yes band you pay for, yes dance, yes, cheerleading. Those , here anyways, where never considered part of school.

actual credit classes ,there where never any fees for, and I have his course book they gave him last year. The field trips, he didnt even have to pay for last year, excpept a bus fee(they are to military bases). Maybe the town pulled alot of funding this summer, I dont know. Please dont think I wont pay for them, again I am just Even with dds band, we dont pay anything, on all the papers, everything said it was state funded and there is no $. We do have a big meeting for parents next week that I am going to go to and find out the ins and outs. Although I would expect to pay something, its not part of school.
LOL again lots of things are different, they dont give the kids books anymore, all their course books are on computer disc.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by Tradd

I'm going to offer a different perspective. If a high school kid (perhaps even junior high) wants to do an extracurricular, either through school or outside, and the family absolutely canNOT afford it, the kid is old enough to understand that if they want to do something, they need to come up with the fees.

A kid can babysit, be a mother's helper, do chores/yardwork (rake leaves, shovel snow, cut grass, weed, pick produce, etc.) for neighbors elderly and not. There are also paper routes (some communities have weekly newspapers that don't require a daily committment like a daily paper).

Friends of older kids report that the teenagers seem to have a more difficult time getting part-time jobs (it seems to me that adults are taking these jobs due to the tough economy), but a kid can still do the yard work/babysitting route. Problem is, many of the kids do NOT want to do the work. A couple who are empty nesters have a house with a not-huge yard. Their work schedules don't allow them as much time as they used to have for yard work. There are teenagers in their neighborhood. They've offered the grass cutting job to several of the teenagers - name your own price. The kids didn't want it - "too much work."

I agree with you to an extent. As the mother of a now 16 yo who has a regular job, I have found that there are a lot less of those odd jobs for kids than one would expect. Obviously location plays a role, but where we live, when my ds was 12 he tried offering many of the services that you mentioned and had no takers. Sadly many folks don't want boy babysitters/mother's helpers so the one idea job for a preteen/young teen does not exist for boys it seems.

As far as yard work, I think for many folks the issue of liability and what if comes up so folks maybe weary of using a kid. I wish I could find a kid to do lawnwork around here.

Of course the other flipside logistically of working and activities even with older teens is that if they are doing activities after school, its hard to work. Right now my son has the lead in the school play and is at rehearsal until 8:30 every night and Sat mornings for the next month. So his work schedule has been cut drastically and he's got homecoming coming up, which means expenses. In my case I have agreed to help fund his homecoming expenses since having the lead in the school play as a junior is a big deal and he loves acting.

To the OP, I feel your pain. I swear since ds started HS, everything has a cost attached to it.

Shay

[lmonter]

Yeah, it was like that back in my high school days.

My sister and I didn't do any sports because our family was living off just my mom's librarian wages (my dad hasn't had a job in over 20 years - his choice . I ended up in yearbook since I already had a decent 35mm camera and then girl scouts for a whopping $25/year, and my sister ended up hanging out with unsavory people and then doing a year abroad her junior year. I couldn't count all the "scholarships" we got for summer camps and VBS and so on... but we still were $200 over the yearly income limit for reduced hot lunches.

A friend of mine really wanted to do football or soccer, but he couldn't because it cost too much and even though his parents were both professors at the college, there just wasn't any wiggle room in their budget. He even had to do extra stuff around the house or convince them to help rent a tux for prom when we went together one year. We also always had to pay for field trips, too. $10-$40/pop, mostly to pay for the bus/gas and entry to the bowling alley or county fair or the observatory or milk creamery.

[caedmyn]

Originally Posted by senmom

You have the gov't to thank for this. They have cut the $$ they give to the school districts, so they pass it in to the families. Our district does have a mandate, that is someone has a financial hardship, they can still participate at free or greatly reduced fees.

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

Well as a person who grew up NEVER being able to participate in ANYTHING because my family had very limited resources, your attitude comes across as very cold and unsympathetic. Families who are struggling to make ends meet need to have opportunities as well.

Why are wealthy kids the only ones who deserve to play sports or participate in foreign exchange programs etc etc....??


And if everyone paid their fair share of taxes (esp large corporations...don't EVEN get me started...)There would be PLENTY of money to fund schools and many other community resources as well. But the folks making the decisions don't want it that way.
So we bicker amongst ourselves and make judgments about how that kid who is being raised by a poor single parent doesn't really deserve to play sports...*sigh*...such is life... (because it's not YOUR kid!)


.

[mar123]

Again- you have to look at how schools are funded in your area. Most are through property taxes. Wouldn't matter how much corporations pay- it wouldn't help schools necessarily. Ours are through sales taxes- which is good and bad. Everyone pays sales tax, but the revenue rises and falls with the economy. Luckily, our economy is BOOMING so we have lots of revenue right now.

I do think there should be help for kids whose families can't afford the fees. We get monies from corporations in the area and use these funds for exactly this type of thing. We also use it for school supplies for kids who can't afford them. I would much prefer this direct type of donation from company to school- more money directly impacts the students and politicians don't get their hands on the money.

[KateKat]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

:

I pay a ton of money in taxes and while I have no problem with my tax dollars helping someone get educated or health care, I don't feel the need to help finance somebody's extras.

I never got to have a year abroad or join a sports team because my family couldn't afford it. I don't think that had any huge negative effect on my life.
I got a job working as a cashier my freshman year of high school and was able to pay for music lessons. I was also able to finance my own high school clubs and put away some money for college.

[Alare]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

[grniys]

I'm pretty in the middle on this.

First, the school should make sure the parent's realize there are fee's associated with certain classes. Often, when the middle schooler or high schooler goes to sign up for classes and talks to guidance, the counselor will tell the student. A lot of times the student won't mention it to the parent because either they forgot, or if there are expensive fee's don't want the parents to say no, you can't take that photography class that I'll need to buy you an expensive camera for. So really, until it's known for sure whether it's the school not telling anyone or the student not mentioning it for whatever reason, you can't really get mad at the school.

I don't think it's ridiculous to pay a couple bucks or a gym uniform. Ours were like $12 I think. This was about 5 years ago. If the family truly could not afford it then the school waived that fee, because gym was mandatory. Most times gym class has uniforms so the girls won't wear inappropriate clothes for sports. It makes sense.

As for elective classes and extra curriculurs (sp?)... those are extra. A lot of families can make do just fine and pay their bills and have nice things, but there isn't money left over for sports, so they don't get involved in that. There are usually ways the school will help out if the family meets certain financial standards. I think it's completely ridiculous to get upset at the school charging extra for extra things. Kids are promised an education. Not sports and photography and whatever else they want. Needs and wants are very different.

All of that said, generally, where there is a will there is a way. I went to private school (before I moved in with my mom and finished out high school at public school) with a guy who really wanted a great education. His family could not afford to send him to private school. So what did he do? He got a part time job. He saved up his money. Then he went to the headmaster and explained his situation. Our school didn't have a janitor, so the kid got the headmaster to agree to let him to janitorial work after school in exchange for an education from the school. He used the money from his pt job to join soccer and basketball at school. He didn't have time to socialize much because he was always working, studying, practicing. But he wanted it badly enough that he went for it. I think it's really sad that more people don't have a strong work ethic like he did.

I don't mind my tax dollars going towards math, science, english... all the courses kids really need to learn. I don't mind kicking in a few bucks for kids who can't afford their school supplies or basic school costs. But when it comes to extra's, I really don't think people should complain that their share should be paid for by other's. Need's should be provided, want's are completely different.

ETA: In High school, I wanted to take college courses. They were a few hundred bucks extra. That came out of my pocket. I spent the summer saving tips from my waitressing job to cover the extra cost.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by Sharlla

I just wouldn't pay it, they can't make you.

They can't make her pay it, but they can kick her kid out of the programs.

There would be PLENTY of money to fund schools and many other community resources as well.

There already is plenty of money, but the school systems aren't budgeting it properly. I don't know the actual amount, but I know some systems have almost as many administrators as they do teachers. The money per student that we pay in taxes certainly doesn't do to benefit the students.

[mar123]

phatui5- you are exactly right- there is PLENTY of money. Most systems spend an average of 7 grand per kid. And we are so top heavy with admin and red tape it is ridiculous. My kids go to a Catholic school and I pay 7 grand for 3 kids to attend. Now, the teachers do make less money, but my kids have lots of extras that the public schools are cutting- art, music, computer, foreign language, PE.
There is only one admin at my kids' school- the principal. Parents are volunteers on many of the boards that make decisions, and that keeps costs low.

[KateKat]

Originally Posted by mar123

phatui5- you are exactly right- there is PLENTY of money. Most systems spend an average of 7 grand per kid. And we are so top heavy with admin and red tape it is ridiculous. My kids go to a Catholic school and I pay 7 grand for 3 kids to attend. Now, the teachers do make less money, but my kids have lots of extras that the public schools are cutting- art, music, computer, foreign language, PE.
There is only one admin at my kids' school- the principal. Parents are volunteers on many of the boards that make decisions, and that keeps costs low.

The Catholic schools here educate kids for significantly less than what public schools educate their kids for too. Part of it is that there are no special need kids in the Catholic schools here . Not having to pay for accommodations for children who are dyslexic, need ESL, etc. reduces costs. The Catholic schools here also do not have to provide free/reduced cost meals.

The public schools here offer many more activities and electives that the Catholic schools, but have a reputation for graduating kids who lack basic math and reading skills. Something like 99% of the kids who enter Catholic schools as freshman graduate in 4 years.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Well as a person who grew up NEVER being able to participate in ANYTHING because my family had very limited resources, your attitude comes across as very cold and unsympathetic. Families who are struggling to make ends meet need to have opportunities as well.

Why are wealthy kids the only ones who deserve to play sports or participate in foreign exchange programs etc etc....??


And if everyone paid their fair share of taxes (esp large corporations...don't EVEN get me started...)There would be PLENTY of money to fund schools and many other community resources as well. But the folks making the decisions don't want it that way.
So we bicker amongst ourselves and make judgments about how that kid who is being raised by a poor single parent doesn't really deserve to play sports...*sigh*...such is life... (because it's not YOUR kid!)


.

and what about the home schoolers who still pay taxes and are trying to make ends meet?? :

[WC_hapamama]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

and what about the home schoolers who still pay taxes and are trying to make ends meet?? :

You mean the homeschoolers whose children are still eligible for services such as speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy through their local school district even though their children are not enrolled in school in the district?

So let's say you homeschool, and you find out that your child needs speech therapy, but that your insurance doesn't cover it (or enough or it) or the provider your insurance does cover is too far away. Would you not use the services offered at no charge through the school district?

Public schools also serve as venues for youth sports, polling places, evacuation centers, and many other "not school" uses.

[FraggleLover]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

and what about the home schoolers who still pay taxes and are trying to make ends meet?? :

Personally I think homeschoolers should receive a per student grant just like the schools, but if you are going down that road, people without children at all should refuse to contribute to school costs. Who is going to benefit from that.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by WC_hapamama

You mean the homeschoolers whose children are still eligible for services such as speech therapy, physical therapy and occupational therapy through their local school district even though their children are not enrolled in school in the district?

So let's say you homeschool, and you find out that your child needs speech therapy, but that your insurance doesn't cover it (or enough or it) or the provider your insurance does cover is too far away. Would you not use the services offered at no charge through the school district?

Public schools also serve as venues for youth sports, polling places, evacuation centers, and many other "not school" uses.

well my DD got speech therapy through EI and I have to say it was a complete joke and clearly a way to make money off the state when the coordinator is billing for hours and hours per month.. so no we won't be using the public school system for services. why in the world do you think these services are free? they are not, you and I pay for them. So why should I have to continue paying for services we will never use? :

[Literate]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

well my DD got speech therapy through EI and I have to say it was a complete joke and clearly a way to make money off the state when the coordinator is billing for hours and hours per month.. so no we won't be using the public school system for services. why in the world do you think these services are free? they are not, you and I pay for them. So why should I have to continue paying for services we will never use? :

Because it's cheaper than paying for incarceration?

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by Literate

Because it's cheaper than paying for incarceration?

and this type of attitude is how the system stays broken.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

well my DD got speech therapy through EI and I have to say it was a complete joke and clearly a way to make money off the state when the coordinator is billing for hours and hours per month.. so no we won't be using the public school system for services. why in the world do you think these services are free? they are not, you and I pay for them. So why should I have to continue paying for services we will never use? :

Think of it as being part of a community.

We will prob NEVER use the public school system but I am HAPPY to pay my share because I know my community will be better for it.

I cannot imagine what would happen to some kids if they didn't have a public school to attend...


.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Think of it as being part of a community.

We will prob NEVER use the public school system but I am HAPPY to pay my share because I know my community will be better for it.

I cannot imagine what would happen to some kids if they didn't have a public school to attend...


.

true, in a way.

Though I do fully believe if parents were forced to have an active role in their childrens schooling (ie; funding it directly) i believe they would have a better education. It's not a matter of there would be no schools if we didn't pay taxes.

It is a very unfair system to homeschoolers. So we can fund OTHERS children to learn in public school but our kids get nothing? No logic. My son who actually NEEDS services is not covered by the school system. So no it's not helpful to us. I'm glad it's useful for others.

Sorry this is way OT.