This is puplic school?? - Page 3

[KateKat]

[QUOTE=rainbowmoon;12161703]
It is a very unfair system to homeschoolers. So we can fund OTHERS children to learn in public school but our kids get nothing? No logic.

[QUOTE]


It's also not fair to the parents who choose to send their kids to religious or other types of private schools. They're paying for their children's education twice.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

true, in a way.

Though I do fully believe if parents were forced to have an active role in their childrens schooling (ie; funding it directly) i believe they would have a better education. It's not a matter of there would be no schools if we didn't pay taxes.

It is a very unfair system to homeschoolers. So we can fund OTHERS children to learn in public school but our kids get nothing? No logic. My son who actually NEEDS services is not covered by the school system. So no it's not helpful to us. I'm glad it's useful for others.

Sorry this is way OT.

Either we have publicly funded schools or we don't. If we don't then people will have to pay for their child's schooling out of pocket. There are plenty of parents who wouldn't be able to afford to send their children to school if it weren't publicly funded. What then???

If we have publicly funded schools then the most efficient thing to do is have several large schools in each area and open them to the community. It would be VERY costly to pay for kids to go to private school, or to pay a parent for homeschooling their child. Your kids aren't "getting nothing". There is a school in your area that they can attend and get an education. Which is the same thing every other kid is getting.

Sure it is frustrating but I can't really see a better solution. It would be nice if the quality of public schools and the courses could be improved, and I think that is what this thread is all about. In the OP's case it would be nice if extra classes were just part of what you get. All of the extra fees kept me from doing many things at school when I was a kid and it is something that I am still frustrated about. There should at least be a scholarship program for good students who cannot afford the fees. Especially when you are talking about Jr High when kids are too young to get a job.
And parents should have to sign something acknowledging the fees before the child enrolls in whatever course.

Just my .02

[KateKat]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Either we have publicly funded schools or we don't. If we don't then people will have to pay for their child's schooling out of pocket. There are plenty of parents who wouldn't be able to afford to send their children to school if it weren't publicly funded. What then???

Educational vouchers for parents to use as they see fit. They could completely cover the costs of public school, be used towards the tuition of private schools or towards home schooling expenses. The public schools here spend more per pupil than most of the private schools and still can't graduate kids who can read or ensure the physical safety of their students. A public school funded voucher based on per pupil public school spending would more than pay most private school tuitions ($14,000 per student public school spending vs. $5,000 per student spending for many of the private schools).

I also am fairly sure that if parents had a choice, nearly all of the very low performing dangerous public schools would close down due to lack of students. What parent in their right mind would choose to send their kid to a public school that has a drug problem and a 60% drop out rate if given a choice?!

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Either we have publicly funded schools or we don't. If we don't then people will have to pay for their child's schooling out of pocket. There are plenty of parents who wouldn't be able to afford to send their children to school if it weren't publicly funded. What then???

If we have publicly funded schools then the most efficient thing to do is have several large schools in each area and open them to the community. It would be VERY costly to pay for kids to go to private school, or to pay a parent for homeschooling their child. Your kids aren't "getting nothing". There is a school in your area that they can attend and get an education. Which is the same thing every other kid is getting.

Sure it is frustrating but I can't really see a better solution. It would be nice if the quality of public schools and the courses could be improved, and I think that is what this thread is all about. In the OP's case it would be nice if extra classes were just part of what you get. All of the extra fees kept me from doing many things at school when I was a kid and it is something that I am still frustrated about. There should at least be a scholarship program for good students who cannot afford the fees. Especially when you are talking about Jr High when kids are too young to get a job.
And parents should have to sign something acknowledging the fees before the child enrolls in whatever course.

Just my .02

There could be other programs as well as another system put into place. (ie;one that works)

also, my kids do get NOTHING as they are (or will be) homeschooled. why should we be penalized for our choices?

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by KateKat

Educational vouchers for parents to use as they see fit. They could completely cover the costs of public school, be used towards the tuition of private schools or towards home schooling expenses. The public schools here spend more per pupil than most of the private schools and still can't graduate kids who can read or ensure the physical safety of their students. A public school funded voucher based on per pupil public school spending would more than pay most private school tuitions ($14,000 per student public school spending vs. $5,000 per student spending for many of the private schools).

I also am fairly sure that if parents had a choice, nearly all of the very low performing dangerous public schools would close down due to lack of students. What parent in their right mind would choose to send their kid to a public school that has a drug problem and a 60% drop out rate if given a choice?!

it seems so simple, right? I fully agree.

[BedHead]

Originally Posted by FraggleLover

Personally I think homeschoolers should receive a per student grant just like the schools

I'm in Alberta and we get this

But I have also had to fork over fees for REQUIRED courses - Math, Phys Ed, etc. in highschool.

[waiflywaif]

why should we be penalized for our choices?

You pay taxes for the fire department, and yet you never had a fire. Should you be able to opt out of that tax too?

Public schools are part of the community. Good ones, whether you use them or not, help ensure that your neighborhood doesn't go totally to hell.

So I don't think homeschoolers are being "penalized" for their choices. Not in the least.

[choli]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

There could be other programs as well as another system put into place. (ie;one that works)

also, my kids do get NOTHING as they are (or will be) homeschooled. why should we be penalized for our choices?

Perhaps they should give a cash credit to homeschoolers and the child free.

Of course, if they are paying you money to homeschool, they will feel entitled to monitor how you are homeschooling. How would you feel about that?

[KateKat]

Originally Posted by choli

Perhaps they should give a cash credit to homeschoolers and the child free.

Of course, if they are paying you money to homeschool, they will feel entitled to monitor how you are homeschooling. How would you feel about that?

The government already moniters homeschooling families and requires that certain standards be met.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by KateKat

The government already moniters homeschooling families and requires that certain standards be met.

Depending on where you live. Where I live I don;t have to do much of anything. I like it that way and I am sure it would change if the government started funding home schools.

[BedHead]

All we have is a home visit twice a year. We decide on curriculum, we 'grade' our kids, we have a lot of freedom when homeschooling.

[Literate]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

and this type of attitude is how the system stays broken.

Yup. Nice attitude all right.

[senmom]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

The PS also get additional $$ from the gov't. It is a combination of the reduction gov't $$ and the SS not budgeting correctly.

As I said before, if the family has a HARDSHIP and cannot afford to pay for field trips or lunches.....they benefit from free or reduced fees.

I also agree that paying taxes, even if your kids do not attend public school, benefits the ENTIRE community.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by choli

Perhaps they should give a cash credit to homeschoolers and the child free.

Of course, if they are paying you money to homeschool, they will feel entitled to monitor how you are homeschooling. How would you feel about that?

I think I'd be pretty ok with it myself.

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by Literate

Yup. Nice attitude all right.

I apologize for being snarky. it just is a sensitive subject to me considering I'm a product of it. I do think public SS need an overhaul but that's just me. now how one goes about making a change in it all is really beyond me!

[rainbowmoon]

Originally Posted by waiflywaif

You pay taxes for the fire department, and yet you never had a fire. Should you be able to opt out of that tax too?

Public schools are part of the community. Good ones, whether you use them or not, help ensure that your neighborhood doesn't go totally to hell.

So I don't think homeschoolers are being "penalized" for their choices. Not in the least.

I actually have used my fire dept. more than once. (Try like 5 times, I'm always calling them it seems! and the sheriff) you may not feel it's a penalty, but I (and others) DO. Especially when my childrens whole education (minus the library) will be paid out of pocket and by me (A single mom) with no tax breaks or assistance. yes I do think it's unfair.

[Selesai]

Originally Posted by rainbowmoon

I actually have used my fire dept. more than once. (Try like 5 times, I'm always calling them it seems! and the sheriff) you may not feel it's a penalty, but I (and others) DO. Especially when my childrens whole education (minus the library) will be paid out of pocket and by me (A single mom) with no tax breaks or assistance. yes I do think it's unfair.

Well, quite honestly, you know that public education is "free" and you choose to do something different, for whatever reason. It's a choice.

Originally Posted by KateKat

Educational vouchers for parents to use as they see fit. They could completely cover the costs of public school, be used towards the tuition of private schools or towards home schooling expenses. The public schools here spend more per pupil than most of the private schools and still can't graduate kids who can read or ensure the physical safety of their students. A public school funded voucher based on per pupil public school spending would more than pay most private school tuitions ($14,000 per student public school spending vs. $5,000 per student spending for many of the private schools).

I also am fairly sure that if parents had a choice, nearly all of the very low performing dangerous public schools would close down due to lack of students. What parent in their right mind would choose to send their kid to a public school that has a drug problem and a 60% drop out rate if given a choice?!

There are a few problems with this. First, if a public school system has no idea from year to year how many students they will have (since we know governments have to plan things like 15 years in advance it seems) how will they be able to maintain any infrastructure? Buildings, teachers, food contracts, etc. They just won't know.

And, I really don't believe that vouchers will let everyone have the type of schooling they want. I think the schools will become segregated by race/ethnicity and class. I think that the richer people will still get the better educations. I think that children with uninvolved parents will still have uninvolved parents. I think that those kids dealing drugs in a school with a 60% drop out rate will have to go somewhere, since education is mandatory and all, and none of the problems will be solved. Except maybe people complaining about paying for schools will feel a little bit better about themselves.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by caedmyn

You do realize that money from "the government" comes out of somebody's pocket, right? It makes a lot more sense to me to have families pay for their child's extra activities/classes than to raise taxes yet again. I can't even imagine how much money we'll pay in school taxes over the next 20 years, and our kids will never go to a public school.

And if a family can't afford to pay for an extra activity, well, either the kid needs to find a way to work for the money or they can't do the activity. Such is life. If activity fees are ridiculous, get other parents together and figure out a way to get the fees reduced or hold fund raisers.

Just to clarify, in my case I am referring to directly paying the school for basic school supplies that are required of every student to participate in the regular cirriculum. Like pencils. paper. etc.

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by BedHead

I'm in Alberta and we get this

But I have also had to fork over fees for REQUIRED courses - Math, Phys Ed, etc. in highschool.

In Alberta? What do you receive per student?

Alberta is very wealthy due to its natural resources, for those who don't know. They are the only province without provincial sales tax.

[KateKat]

Originally Posted by Selesai

There are a few problems with this. First, if a public school system has no idea from year to year how many students they will have (since we know governments have to plan things like 15 years in advance it seems) how will they be able to maintain any infrastructure? Buildings, teachers, food contracts, etc. They just won't know.

And, I really don't believe that vouchers will let everyone have the type of schooling they want. I think the schools will become segregated by race/ethnicity and class. I think that the richer people will still get the better educations. I think that children with uninvolved parents will still have uninvolved parents. I think that those kids dealing drugs in a school with a 60% drop out rate will have to go somewhere, since education is mandatory and all, and none of the problems will be solved. Except maybe people complaining about paying for schools will feel a little bit better about themselves.

The public schools here estimate school enrollment by analyzing housing occupancy, birth rates, and immigration. I know their estimates are just estimates, but there is a way to somewhat predict school enrollment. And when they're off, they typically underestimate enrollment. If there were vouchers, some of the public school over-enrollment could enroll in nonpublic schools.

Schools where I am already are segregated. The public schools have nearly a 100% nonwhite student body. The private schools are nearly 100% white. Even the public schools in Caucasian neighborhoods are nearly 100% nonwhite since the public school students are bused in and the neighborhood residents choose to send their kids to Catholic or private schools. Vouchers could actually diversify the school system and even the playing field.