kids killing things

[sagemomma]

ok i have posted before my concern about the nieghborhood children playing violent games with toy guns and such. but this is just too much, i look out my window and see 2 boys hitting something on the ground with a stick. i go out there and see they have killed a praying mantis. my stomache turned as they laughed about how they chopped it up. my son was standing a few feet behind them in complete shock. we do not kill things in our home we set them free and it has always been understood that we respect all creatures , we do not interfere with nature. how do i handle this? do i talk to the parents? i have had to talk with these children before, they caught a lizard and ripped it's tail off last week, they stole bird eggs out of thier nests in the spring. i'm at my wits end with these children. anyone with advice would be well recieved thank you .

edited at request of moderator

[Tofu the Geek]

Ugh, I have no advice but I can relate. When I was 9, the boys my age that lives in the neighbourhood used to drown gophers and beat them on the head if they tried to get out of their hole while they were pouring water down.

[sweetlovinmama]

That's gross. Maybe I'm feeling too cynical today, but I really don't think talking to their parents will do anything. Just keep talking to and loving your family and lead by example. Control what you can.

On a semi-related note, I came home yesterday to see my daughters out playing in our front lawn with my new neighbor (adult male) from across the street standing at my mailbox and shooting a hunting-like bow and arrow across the street into his garage. Target practice with kids running around. We don't do weapons or violence. We live in a neighborhood with a ton of kids running around. He may as well be shooting a gun across the street! What is wrong with people?!?! Anyway, he has kids and obviously what he's modeling is different than what I am.

[spirit4ever]

I don't think talking to their parents will help..


I do remember at a young age pulling the legs off of daddy long leg spiders... what was I thinking

[Mizelenius]

That's horrible. If I saw it, I'd go over and tell them to stop.

If it was already done, then I'd probably tell them about all of the amazing things praying mantis do-- like eating mosquitos!

Maybe I'd get a few copies of Ranger Rick and pass them out to those children.

Silence = approval. It is good that you are talking to them-- your son sees this, too.

[SarahGuinn]

It's a normal thing. We don't kill things in my house either and my oldest's (6) response to my hunter little brother telling him he shot a squirrel was "why would you do that? he helps in the enviroment."

That being said, he loves to squash ants.

Don't talk to the parents, they will not understand. It's really not that big a deal, just discuss it with your son.

[MusicianDad]

You could try talking to the parents, but that probably won't do anything since the parents will probably say "Well it was just a praying mantis."

You can try talking to the kids again, but again it probably won't do much good.

All I can advise is to keep up what your teaching your child that all living things deserve to be respected and what the boys are doing is wrong.

[GoBecGo]

Believe it or not, this is, psychologically speaking, in the realms of normal childhood behaviour. That's not to say EVERY child engages in mindless cruelty, but many do, and go on to grow into loving, healthy, GENTLE adults. For those who did NOT do it as a kid it can seem totally horrific, but it serves an important purpose for some children as they explore empathy, power and guilt.

I engaged in this sort of behaviour myself. I was not and am not proud of it, but there you are, it's the truth. I was not raised in a violent or uncaring home.

You might try talking to the kids, one on one if possible (or at least not in their normal big group) about how they felt then and how they feel now, without the mob rule and bravado coming into play. The children are not demonic.

[SarahGuinn]

I have a big problem with you calling them demonic. This is completely normal and part of what children will get into when roaming the neighborhood without an adult. Trust me.

[*MamaJen*]

I was always the kid who freaked out if anyone killed insects or was mean to animals (my mom modeled really empathetic behavior, so I think that's why I had it so early). My son is still a babe, but I was talking to a friend about this just a couple of days ago. He was saying that a lot of kids, boys especially, go through a killing phase as part of their normal psychological development.
I don't really know either way, but it sounds like your son understands that random cruelty isn't okay.

[purplepetal21]

I believe this thread hits on a broader topic.

Some would say that we are feminizing our boys, other would say that we are teaching compassion. It is a topic that I believe could use some more open respectful discussion.

I run a playschool and when the topic of "boy play" came up we sat down with all the parents and heard their input. The end result? We agreed to hide the pretend swords till we had more discussions.

I would love to hear others thoughts on this topic.

My two cents: Children need to see and experience hands on to understand. The lessons of life, death, pain, empathy are usually learned by some of the scenes you are witnessing from the neighborhood boys. If we were all living on a farm etc our children would be exposed to much more "demonic" scenes. Take this moment to teach, not to label, criticize or shame.

We also release our bug friends!!

[janasmama]

I think it's normal and although I love praying mantis' and wouldn't want them killed...I'm not going to keep my children from discovering the world around them as they cut an ant in half with a stick or squish a spider and see that it has body fluids also.

[MusicianDad]

Well, you can put me in the category of people who think that kids don't need to go through a killing stage to learn empathy or to explore the world around them. And in the OP talks about things beyond killing bugs anyway. Torturing lizards, stealing eggs from a nest I know there are better ways to learn about the world.

[GoBecGo]

I don't think this is just about boys, i'm a girl!

I am not suggesting all kids NEED to do this to learn about the world, but many do. Truly, not every child learns their limits the same way.

I grew up on a farm and my mother was a realist but a compassionate one. We ate the meat we raised, but all our animals were treated kindly and their deaths were as qick and painless as possible. I was taught the reality of being a meat-eater but i wa NOT allowed to torture animals or insects (i was once stung 4 times within 9 minutes by a wasp when i was 3 or 4 years old and my mother released it when she managed to catch it! She was NOT without compassion!). My parents modelled humane compassionate behaviour, but i didn't know where my limits were until i tested them.

That might seem very odd to some who know because they were TOLD that it's wrong to kill, i had to FEEL how wrong it was. I can remember once killing a mouse i found injured in a trap and i felt sick with myself for a month. Even though the mouse was already trapped and couldn't have been released, the fact thet it was *ME* that killed it...i felt disgusted, repelled with myself.

I'm afraid i've continued to be the sort of person that needs to experience something to really respect it. I knew from before my daughter was born that i didn't want to be someone who smacks, but you know what, it took me getting to the end of my rope and smacking her hand to learn the internal motivation i KNOW i can rely on. Before that day i was trying not to. NOw i know how wretched it REALLY feels to do that i don't even need to try, i am internally repelled from striking her.

Perhaps some people can control their emotions. I cannot, and thus i have had to learn how to control my responses to them. I deeply regret the mindless cruelties i inflicted on the creatures i hurt, but i do not accept that doing so means i was and am demonic. I am a person, and an imperfect one at that.

[rainbowmoon]

my own kids have killed things. (bugs mainly but my then 2yo broke one of our ducks necks accidentally-is she now demonic? ) I do think it is part of the curiosity of childhood. maybe you don't agree with their "play" but geesh they are CHILDREN!

[sagemomma]

yeah you would have to be around these children alot more to truely understand how cruel they are. the one boy is a bully and the other is his lacky. they are cruel on so many levels and the praying mantis is not the only incident. there have been many. they have had thier time to learn and now they jus enjoy torturing and killing. there was an incident in the spring where the bully tried to run over 2 sleeping ducks with his bike and almost got one, he threw rocks at the stray cat that evryone here feeds. and tried to kick it, he trapped another lizard under a cup and in doing so slammed the cup on the ground ove rit and cut it's foot off, and had no care like oh well. that time i made him look at it and explained that the lizard was in a lot of pain, and may not be able to get away from his enemies with a missing foot, and may die because of what he did. he tried to set some pine straw on fire out in front of the houses. he's just completely out of control and his parents spoil him beyond belief. and no your children are probably not demonic , i don't know them. but i know this little boy and he needs an exorcism , or something .

[hipchick]

i will admit that I killed my share of snails and smaller bugs (esp. ants) when I was little, along with a Jerusalem cricket (big, ugly thing). I would never kill a praying mantis because they are special, let alone any vertebrates. Nowadays, I almost never kill bugs.

Those kids might be going through a phase, or it might be something worse. One of the boys seems a bit too much into it...What kind of parents does he have? What concerns me is that it might escalate. Remember that nearly every serial killer started out torturing animals before escalating to humans. I am not saying that is what that boy may turn into, but....

[sagemomma]

hipchick ,
i said the same thing about the serial killer thing.
as for his parents, he lives with his mom and stepdad. mom blames everything on her divorce from his father when the kid was 3....
if he gets in trouble, he is brought in for a minute and then comes out with a bag of candy or something. he called a kid a dumb jerk, and a dumb retard the other day *screech* , and his mother said well children can't learn without discipline and then 2 minutes later he came out of the house with a giant sucker in his mouth. also he is waaaaay overwieght like he has vericos viens on his ankles . poor kid. yet always has a sport bottle of soda with him or a bag of chips and some candy. it just seems like they do what's easy and not whats right. ya know

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

Originally Posted by SarahGuinn

It's a normal thing. We don't kill things in my house either and my oldest's (6) response to my hunter little brother telling him he shot a squirrel was "why would you do that? he helps in the enviroment."

That being said, he loves to squash ants.

Don't talk to the parents, they will not understand. It's really not that big a deal, just discuss it with your son.

Just because it's "normal" doesn't mean that it is good or acceptable. It is "normal" for children to bully other children, steal, lie.... but we're supposed to teach them *not* to engage in those behaviors. IMO, this has little to do with gender. I had female friends who terrorized a hermit crab on the beach when we were 8/9.... I found it very upsetting, and I wish an adult had gently said something about our responsibilty as humans to protect animals.

ETA, I agree with GoBecGo that some children do need to experiment with these things (maybe once or twice). I accidentally killed our pet parakeet by handling her too roughly (trying to get her to let me cuddle her). I felt SO guilty for months about this. That one experience taught me more than 20 lectures. However, I do not think that that's what going on with those boys. This is a pattern of violence. If I were the OP, I would keep my own children far away. I hope they don't have any younger siblings.

[geekgolightly]

chaotic households have a tendency to produce chaotic or cruel children. if you see him being cruel, try to remember that he is a child. a child. who needs guidance and love and is not getting it at home. if you were in his situation what do you think you would want?

i would want a mom who comes out and is kind with her questions and loving and understanding. no matter how disgusting the behavior is. because if you respond with disgust, in these instances because of his background, you will only reinforce his behavior. he already feels disgusting and horrible. don;t reinforce that. invite him over and be very involved if you want a change in behavior. otherwise i would ignore it and just discuss with your children his behavior and what it may stem from. teach them empathy for him, not disgust.