MORE Bullying Problems - WWYD (Update Post #15 & #20)

[monkeybum]

My son started at a Montessori school for Kindergarten last week. He has attended this school all summer at their summer camps, but there were different kids in the camp versus his class now. He had some issues being bullied his first week there, got sick to his stomache, didn't want to go, I found out some older kids had been circling him, taunting him, calling him names, taking toys, taking his hat, cornering him, etc. I advised the school and they dealt with it. He had a good summer there, no issues for the rest of the time, (5 weeks).

So now he is in the routine of kindergarten with many new kids. DH has been picking him up and doesn't really tend to notice much or pay much attention to anything. DS was invited to a bday party on the weekend from a boy in his class, and I was very surpised when we went that DS didn't seem to know or get along with any of the kids (there were 3-4 bigger rougher kids, and 3-4 smaller younger kids).

So I told DH I would leave work early and pick DS up today - I wanted to watch how he was getting along with the kids, (they are in the playground the last hour of the day, 4pm to 5pm in the after school program). I pulled up and watched. I was there 5 minutes and here is what I saw:

- girl DS's age in his class walks up to DS and shoves him in the chest, DS fell backwards and landed on his bottom, (shove was for no reason, she was just walking by, DS was standing talking to another boy). DS told playground supervisor, she did nothing.

- 3 boys threw dirt/wood chips in DS’s face, then pushed him, DS fell down. DS got up, said “I’m telling on you” and told the after school supervisor. She didn’t say/do anything, DS went back over to the climber.

- DS tried to play “store” with the boys, asking if they wanted to “buy” something. One boy pulled DS’s shorts down and he and the two other boys laughed and pointed at him. DS went and told the supervisor, she asked who did it, DS pointed to boy, teacher yelled across playground “[Name], don’t pull people’s pants down”. Boy was on top of climber, it was not clear whether he heard, and certainly not an effective way of communicating to him that this was not acceptable. I was about to say something to him when his mother arrived, so instead I told her what had happened. She said thank you and spoke to her son right away.

I am very dissapointed in the amount of bullying that goes on at this school. It is expensive and I am now wondering if I should just put him at Public School. It starts this week so I'd have to move him now or else he'd be starting mid-year. Ugh. Am I just trying to run away? Will bullying be everywhere?

I bought Colorosso's Bully/Bullied/Bystander, but stopped reading it when the bullying stopped earlier in the year. WHY is DS such a target??!!!!! Is it any better at public school?

[nextcommercial]

I don't know why he is such a target.

My daughter went to public school and there was absolutely no bullying in that school until much later. (maybe fifth grade) and even then it was very, very little physical bullying. It was mostly the emotional torment that kids do.

My dd was never really bullied exactly, but excluded, or she and her friends had "fights", but I never felt like she was treated unfairly.

I have an old daycare boy that tends to be the victim a lot. He's eight years old now, and in first grade there was a few physical altercations. He never gets to win, he always has to lose. He said "I can't fight back, because they will hit me harder". But, the school made an enormous deal out of it. They called the police, and the two boys that hurt John were suspended for four days. *The schools call the police for everything now, because they don't want to be held liable if they don't react severly enough*

But, other than a few real bullying, John tend to exaggerate his stories. When you get the other side of the story, it's not really bullying, just two kids who disagree. So, he tattles a lot, and the teachers don't always come down on the kids he's telling on.

That's just John though. YOU saw your son being pushed, hit and humiliated. You know it's not an argument over a toy. The teachers are not willing to protect your son, or they don't believe what he's saying. I don't understand why they can't do what you did.. spend part of a day watching quietly and observing the other kids behavior when your son is around them.

Either way.. I would still take him out of that enviroment. I couldn't bear to know that my son wasn't making friends, and he doesn't seem to know that he deserves to be treated better than that. He thinks this is O.K, and normal. This can't be good for him. HIs self esteem will suffer, and I would rather my child be in a crummy school with good friends, than a great school with mean kids who don't like him.

[4evermom]

I'd have a letter typed up tonight and I'd give it to the school director first thing in the morning. That's completely outrageous that the teacher supervising the playground is ignoring the children and how they are interacting.

[LynnS6]

First, I'd place a phone call with the director's voicemail NOW. I'd then arrive tomorrow AM with a letter in hand detailing what you saw and demanding a meeting ASAP.

Is this an issue with the aftercare program or with the school itself? I know that a lot of schools try to do aftercare "on the cheap" because parents don't pay that much extra for it. So, they have minimal staff who may or may not be well trained.

If it's the aftercare program, what would the one be like at the public school? You might be better off looking for a good home daycare to send him to after school where he'd get more care/supervision. Or a program that has kids separated out by AGES. Our ds is not in aftercare, but from what I've heard, mixed age groups can be problematic - the kids are tired and the supervision is iffy.

What would it take for you to keep your son in that school? If there's something you think the school can do, then I would meet with the director of the school and his classroom teacher and demand that. I'd want a plan, more playground supervision, and some frank discussion of the school environment that leads to continual bullying, and some discussion of why your son seems to be a target.

It sounds to me like:
1. There is no effective playground supervision.
2. There is not an environment that makes kids want to be nice to each other. It makes me wonder what kinds of environment is in the classroom and/or what kinds of environments the kids come from that they are that mean to each other.
3. Your son has no friends to play with. (that in and of itself is not unusual at this age - there's a lot of parallel play, it takes kids a while to warm up. BUT a friend can really help a kid settle in.)

Finish reading the Colorosso book.

All of that being said, I'd be tempted to yank my child from that school so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.

Our son is at the public school. They have a low teacher-student ratio (better than the kids in the neighborhood who are at parochial school). They have an effective discipline policy. Ds has NEVER complained about being there, and he did have some bullying problems from some of the kids in the neighborhood (older kids, and ironically, also same age kids who attend a parochial school) during the summer. They have a full time counselor who meets with each class every 4 days to work on conflict management, anti-bullying, etc.

So, I would say it's all in the school - I've seen two different, but both highly effective, ways of dealing with social relationships at a school. The ONE thing they had in common was that this was a PRIORITY for everyone in the school. It wasn't just on paper. Teachers, students and the director/principal were invested in making in work. What's the priority at this school?

[limabean]

Others have good advice, but I just want to say that it must have been so hard to see your baby being treated that way.

[lucysmom]

Under no circumstances would I leave my child in such an environment. Two choices: stay in the school and force change that you monitor and are confident has occurred; or change schools. Nothing wrong with the first, and you can play a little part in making the world a better place. But if they are resistant, and there is another option you can afford (public school), no question, leave.

You seem to have very strong and good instincts about what is going on with your child. Trust them.

[AllisonR]

to your ds. He needs it. This post really ripped into my heart.

As a child, I was also the bully target. That hurt goes so deep and time heals, but you never forget. It is not just temporary shame, humilation, lonliness... it also creates a huge lack of self confidence, which only then makes the circle of bullying worse because your self confidence is ruined and it shows, even if you try and hide it. And then the bullying gets more severe and your confidence gets even worse and.... It is a downward endless spiral. It affects your inner self. And since you lack friends, you do not learn how to socialize as well, you do not learn social skills and the art of interaction. And as the years go by, the social skills get more subtle and dificult, and without practice, even more complex for you to learn.

One other thing is children fit into roles. And once that role is defined, it is nearly impossible, or impossible, to break. Kid A is popular. Kid B is the athlete. Kid C is the outcast.... If it were minor, then yes, I believe talking to the teachers, administrator.... would help. Your child is absolutely labeled as outcast here, and the children will not allow this role to change. If his role was to change, then every single one of them that deals with him would have to change as well. Not going to happen. The kids will find other ways. Outward physical abuse could turn to hidden emotional abuse.

Please take this seriously. Please take your son seriously. Please take him out of that school. Do not wait a month or two. Do it as soon as you can. Today if possible. And right now practice role play. Help your son find alternate solutions. And put him in a new enviornment and let him start over.

I will tell you what does not work. Leaving him in that enviornment. A few extra curricular activities or one-on-one time with momma at the end of the day does not make up for this. Would you tolerate, for one minute, a work enviornment that was so cruel to you? (not saying you would, just trying to make a point).

I was left in an awful enviornment for 5 years. 5 years of hell, with terrible internal stress and self doubt and insecurity. And what I recieved was NOT as harsh as what is happening to your son right now. I can only imagine how awful he feels.

Yes, I was at a nice ( private, expensive school with high educational standards. Was that worth the emotional price? Was that worth my lack of good friends? Was that worth my depression? Was that worth the stress I has that actually prevented me from learning, because I had to think about protecting myself instead of studying?... Not one day. And again, I was the bully target, but it was not as harsh as pulling my pants down and constant physical shoves.

After 5 years of hell, I got out. I went to public high school, while my brother and sister went to the posh private one. But it meant a place where very few people knew me. So I could start over. That summer before I started, I roll played in my head. My plan was to be invisible if necessary (much better than being the scapegoat), and make some friends if possible. When I started, I layed low, but put on my best fake confidence face that I could. I slowly made friends. I never became most popular cheerleader or what have you. But I had a cicle of friends. I was not the outcast. And I was grateful. And finally I was not so stressed out that I could actually enjoy school. I went from b, c student to straight As within 2 semesters. That was a positive, but minor reward. My real reward was discovering my own self worth, and that I was worthy of friendship.

Please PM if you want. I will call you.

[greeny]

to you and your ds.

Under no circumstances would I leave my child in such an environment. Two choices: stay in the school and force change that you monitor and are confident has occurred; or change schools. Nothing wrong with the first, and you can play a little part in making the world a better place. But if they are resistant, and there is another option you can afford (public school), no question, leave.

You seem to have very strong and good instincts about what is going on with your child. Trust them.

I totally agree with this. Good luck to you.

[mammastar2]

That is terrible and absolutely unacceptable. Your poor son!

At some point maybe you will want to look at whether there is anything he can do to be less of a 'target' as such, but really, the first priority has to be surrounding him with adults who have their heads in gear to prevent this type of thing. By ignoring it, they're feeding it. Right now, he is doing just what he should be doing when faced with bullying - he's drawing the supervisor's attention to it. It's the supervisor who is failing, not him. I'd be furious, and I'd also wonder about the culture at the school which permits this.

So far as public school goes, my daughter is in second grade, and I have found the school extremely responsive. All the kids know the rules about no touching/grabbing on the playground. At the beginning of the year, they separate the kids during recess, so the first graders are on one climber, the second graders on another, and so on, so the youngers aren't bowled over by the olders, then they gradually mix it up. The teachers and assistants who supervise on the playground are active and observant, and carry brass bells that they ring if they need to get the kids' attention to stop a dangerous or unacceptable activity. I've generally found that the school's active approach fosters compassion and comradery among the kids.

Dd was very briefly bullied near the beginning of first grade by one girl with limited social skills. It went on in a number of venues (recess, gym, music class) so no teacher was getting the full picture. We spoke to the teacher and wrote a letter to the principal, who dealt with it immediately with the child's parents. We also worked with dd in understanding and being compassionate for the girl who was doing the bullying. There were no more problems.

Having these types of policies and responses in place for bullying is old news in public school, at least here. You certainly should expect no less when you are paying tuition!

[LauraLoo]

I have nothing more to add. PP's have brought up excellent points.

I did want to send you and your ds
Follow your heart.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by mammastar2

That is terrible and absolutely unacceptable. Your poor son!

At some point maybe you will want to look at whether there is anything he can do to be less of a 'target' as such, but really, the first priority has to be surrounding him with adults who have their heads in gear to prevent this type of thing. By ignoring it, they're feeding it. Right now, he is doing just what he should be doing when faced with bullying - he's drawing the supervisor's attention to it. It's the supervisor who is failing, not him. I'd be furious, and I'd also wonder about the culture at the school which permits this.

I agree with this. Whatever the cause, it sounds like the kids at this school are mean, and the adults don't realize that this is a problem. I'd want to get my kid out of there ASAP, and wouldn't let worries about a midyear transfer (especially one in September) slow me down.

ZM

[sagemomma]

i am so sorry, i know how it breaks you heart to know your child is the target of a bully.
we have the same problem only it's at home with a nieghborhood bully and his gang of hoodlums.
my DS was put into the class with the bully, and i promptly went to the school and told them that would not work, he was put into PM kindy and now does not even have to see the child.
is there a way you could switch classes or times .
i know most people think you should teach him how to handle bullying but i think kindy is too young ot really understand.
also i would have a long talk with the school and the recess supervisor, request a meeting with the bullies parents (realistically no one wants thier child to be the bully) talk to everyone oyu can until you are happy with the outcome.
i think it may be time for your inner mama bear to come out.
i hope this is resolved, i don't understand why some kids need to be so mean to feel better about themselves.

[melissanc]

My 6 yo DS is a feminine child in appearance and behavior so he was a magnet for bullies. Up until a few months ago it was never an issue since we homeschool but about 9 months ago he learned to roller skate and that is when our troubles started. Things were fine when he was being instructed in the classes they had but during open skate a couple larger boys started taunting him and pushing him down in the rink. For the most part talking to the parents solved the problem but it seemed there was always a new bully there. Last month after we came home I was greeted with chewing gum tangled into his ponytails. He admitted the boys had done this and made him promise not to tell. He said if he told they would cut his hair off. I was furious.

I had to be realistic in his case and I knew that as long as I have a feminine boy this type of thing could happen. I enrolled him in a local karate studio. I am totally anti violence but I will never be able to protect him 24/7. I will say it is wonderful exercise, the instructors are marvelous and his self confidence has skyrocketed. Now at the rink when he is teased or bullied he pushes back and it seems that now the bullies just leave him alone. Sadly to pick on some other poor child.

I am not sure this is the best option for you but thought I would put it out for you to consider.

[sillygrl]

Oh my!! It would have broken my heart to have seen that happening to my child. I remember the first time my little brother (I was 18 when he was born) got hit at school, I was *furious*!! I'm so sorry

I don't have anything else to add, I think you've gotten great advice. I just wanted to give you guys a *hug* and say that I hope you find the right solution for your lil' man!

[monkeybum]

Thanks everyone.

Part of the problem is that I WOHM full time so I can't just pull him until I have something else in place full time (Kindergarten here in public school is only alternate days so I'd need alternate day care plus before/after. We also chose this school b/c it goes all summer so I'd have to find a bunch of summer camps too. Ugh). Another issue is that their contract provides that if you withdraw, you have to pay for the whole year, (which would be about $10K!) so I am inclined to try to work it out - if I can. Also, he is really excelling academically at that school, and the "real" teachers are on-site for outdoor time during recess/lunch. So it does just seem that it's the after school that is the problem. What bothers me is as many of you have pointed out, it seems that although it is shunned in all their literature and when you talk to them, they say all the right things, but it seems to somehow be an environment that permits this kind of behavior.

So I am so glad you all helped me see how serious this is. I called the Head of School (equiv to Principal) this morning and when I told her what had happened, she was shocked. She said her jaw had literally dropped to the floor. She said that one of the supervisors was new, but that that was no excuse. She said she would spend some time out there, and that she would talk to the teachers. I told her that I wanted this (and an incident from the summer) documented in his file. So I wrote a letter and took it over today. When I dropped it off, she told me that she had spoken to DS and explained that the teacher should have responded to him. She also assigned two older boys to be DS's "helpers" so that if the teacher wasn't responding, she could go to them, (ironically, one of the boys was one who had bullied DS during summer camp, but he was spoken to and now they seem to get along well). He was also told to say to the teacher "I need help" so she knows he's not just "telling her something".

DS says he doesn't want to go back to school tomorrow, but he says it's because "it's boring and hard". He actually doesn't seem bothered by what happened, which makes me sad b/c I wonder if he thinks it's ok for kids to treat him that way.

I'm not sure whether to make a big deal about it and tell him it was wrong, or let it go.

I am so torn. It was such a huge decision to put him at this school, and it would be another big move to move him somewhere else. I don't even know where I'd start to try to find him before/after and alternate day, (though I could look). He does have one little boy in his class he really likes, but he's much younger. And he's only in his class part of the day.

The hardest thing is - how do I know it will be any better somewhere else, and at least at this school, they do seem to listen, he's settled in, he's doing well academically...

[4evermom]

I'm glad the director is taking it seriously. IME, it really matters that kids get off on the right foot with each other and some guidance can be necessary. Once things are going smoothly, then the supervisor can step back a little (not at the beginning of the year!) I can easily see my ds following the lead of other kids and picking on someone, but he is also extremely sweet and empathetic at other times. He gets in ruts in how he relates to certain kids. I suspect it is the same with the other kids at your ds's school. Now that the situation is being addressed, it should get much better.

[RainCoastMama]

What a horrifying story! Good for you to listen to your gut and see what was really going on

Can I also recommend that you get DS into an external peer-based group, like scouts, or martial arts...something where he has a peer group outside of school where the goal is positive socialization skills, being a good citizen, and so on? Given that his internal compass is probably not pointing to very good self-esteem at the moment, it can only help boost his sense of self. Especially if he sees himself through the eyes of peers who treat him much better.

[AllisonR]

It sounds like the school is listening and willing to work on a solution. Having other kids, not just adults, involved in being support people sounds like a great idea.

I agree with some of the PP about extracurricular activities for your DS, with people not in his class. What are his interests - soccer, art, music....?

I think you need to continue to monitor the situation. I realize you and DH both have to work, but his is important. DH and I both work FT as well, and I am often not in the country, but for this I would rearrange business trips, take off work, and do what I needed to help my son.

Like you watched at the beginning of the week, would you be able to do this again? Is it possible to do this without the adults seeing you? Because that may affect their behaviour very much.

Even if everything gets 100% better and things cam down, monitor it again in 3 months, 6 months and a year... Because if all of those children are able to change roles, it may be permanent. And then all of them, not just your son, will benefit. But it might slowly slide back to being bad. And if it does, your DS will have already turned to you and told you how it was, but if you are not taking it seriously a second time, or assume everything is still ok because it is such a wonderful school, he will learn to hide the problems. This presents its own problems with lack of trust in adults, and feelings of insignificance at not being heard. He will hide the shame and difficulties and assume that afer all he has caused it all himself.

Originally Posted by monkeybum

I am so torn. It was such a huge decision to put him at this school, and it would be another big move to move him somewhere else. I don't even know where I'd start to try to find him before/after and alternate day, (though I could look). He does have one little boy in his class he really likes, but he's much younger. And he's only in his class part of the day.

The hardest thing is - how do I know it will be any better somewhere else, and at least at this school, they do seem to listen, he's settled in, he's doing well academically...

OK, Now I am going to be a bit harsh. You've made lots of excuses for why he has to stay at this specific school. Yes, it might be a huge decision for you, as well as inconvenient and time consuming at the present, to make a change, but please consider it seriously. Yes, you have decided to monitor the curent school instead, and really try to work with them. And it may will work out quite well. I hope so. But in the meantime, you should be investigating other schools and options. Because what if it doesn't work out? And you haven't mae efforts to find an alternative? Then your son is forced to be there.

The line about 'I don't know if it will be any better someplace else' - I heard that year after year. It is an excuse. No more, no less. In my case, it would have been a royal pain for my folks to have my brother and sister at one school, and have me at another. I hope you can look into your heart and see what is blocking you from at least trying to find some alternatives. I wonder, what if you had a job that paid you a lot of money, and that you were really qualified to do and skilled at, but all of your colleagues harrassed you and pressured you to do things you didn't want, and humiliated and embarrased you? Would you put up with that? Day in and day out? And if not, then it shouldn't be OK that a child has to either, just because he is a child.

Please dont get so stuck on this one school that you close your mind to other options. I hope you can take this in the way it is meant, not harshly, but seriously. And in the meantime, I hope your son stops being hurt, very soon.

[carfreemama]

Just wanted to add one more thing here, after reading through this thread. You say your son doesn't want to go back to the school and says it's because it's "boring and hard." Yet he is excelling academically. I was brutally bullied through a few years, too and also excelled academically. This is something I would have said, too, rather than admit that I was terrified of going to school. I wouldn't have known how to explain that. And I was much older than your son. So just to point out to not take his words too literally; I would be alarmed at any expression on his part that he does not want to go back. Just because he seems okay doesn't mean he hasn't been deeply affected.

FWIW, you're giving this a lot more attention than anyone ever did when I was bullied. Your son will feel your love and concern and that will go a long, long way towards healing.

[monkeybum]

Thanks guys - please be harsh if needed, I don't mind!

I called our local public school and went for a visit today. Turns out they can get him in right away. Turns out the on-site daycare at my work (where my 1 yo goes) can also get him in the alternate days he's not at school, and probably all summer. So that would leave just the after school care the days he's at public school. I've left a message at the after school program at the public school and explained the situation. We also have a new neighbour who appears to do before/after school care, I'm going to try to ask her if this is the case, if she could pick up my son the 2 days week.

I had thought about the outside activities too - he is already in gymnastics, and a trial session of Tae Kwon Doe is planned for next week. Maybe I'll look at music too.

Interesting comment:

what if you had a job that paid you a lot of money, and that you were really qualified to do and skilled at, but all of your colleagues harrassed you and pressured you to do things you didn't want, and humiliated and embarrased you? Would you put up with that?

This is EXACTLY what my situation is/was. I started at a new job very close to home, big promotion, huge pay raise, awesome perks etc. a couple of years ago. BUT, there was a woman (and two of her cohorts) who really bullied me, so much so that I came home in tears almost every day for a year. I stuck it out b/c it had so many other great things, and I kept thinking it would get better...and it did. She retired, we had some donwsizing so others were let go, and now I LOVE my job, and I still get all the perks, great location, great pay, had a bunch of raises, bonuses, etc. So I am partial to thinking sometimes things can work out.

I honestly don't know what to do now. I am not trying to make excuses, but I hate to disrupt DS from his routine, (and waste all the $ on the uniform, unpaid months etc.) if it really IS going to be the same elsewhere. At least at this school it's small enough that I can keep an eye on things, (playground at the public school is not accessible other than by foot, very hard to "spy" on it). And the academics at this school are far better, I worry he'll be bored at public school, (i.e. they still nap in the public school kindergarten program, many of the kids are only 3, DS is reading at a grade 2 level, but in public school they are "learning the alphabet"). The room he'd be in at the daycare at my work is a Preschool/Junior Kindie split, so he'd be in with 2 1/2 to 5 year olds, and they do a 2-hour nap each day (DS has not napped in over a year).

So this is my big dilemma now...how do I know it's the right decision to move him to all of these new situations (public school + daycare + before/after + summer camps with strangers....) and he may still get bullied there. Part of me thinks maybe I am better to teach him now how to deal with the bullies in a smaller controlled environment. Aaahhh!!!! I don't know what to do....

I was impressed with the public school and have no concerns sending him there other than the napping and not being able to "spy"...