Lifestyle worth high COL?

[Ruthiegirl]

We are doing some brainstorming in my house. Dh has two invitations to apply for positions on the west coast, one in San Fran, the other in Seattle. Both jobs look great and he is qualified to take either and has been given a heads up that the is on the top of the list for the San Fran job.

Sounds great, right? Beautiful west coast, mountains, ocean, great food, wonderful people. The work would be good and he is excited about these opportunities.

But I am completely freaked about the cost of real estate in both of these cities. I am a west coast native and know both of these cities well. I love, love, love both places and would be thrilled to live in either one.

But, I have this vision of us moving into a tiny condo, sqeaking by to pay a 500,000 mortgage and getting in over our heads financially. I mean, who wants to move somewhere beautiful and then work like a dog just to pay the bills?

On the other hand, I am sick of long, hot muggy summers, mosquitoes, mosquitoes, and more mosquitoes, the racism in my small town, the lack of good quality food, the crappy schools and culture of apathy and mediocrity that overlays values here.

So, to all those high COL moms out there -- is it worth it? Do you love your city no matter what it costs to live there? Do you feel that you are able to take advantage of the lifestyle while maintaining a tighter budget?

[ShaggyDaddy]

We moved from Texas to the "The Hills" West of L.A... We are talking "the lowest crime rate in the country" type of "high cost of living place".

First off I will say that it is not worth it to buy a house there, for me, unless I was going to stay there for 29 years, financially speaking, dollar for dollar. Renting a single family home was 10s of thousands per year cheaper than buying that same home - and I do not gamble on the appreciation of a home which I already consider to be overpriced at the rock bottom "recession" price.

Now as far as cost of living... I found that even though groceries were 2-3x what they are in Texas, gas was 20% more expensive, taxes were about 9% more of my income eating out cost about 2x as mucm, electricity, natural gas, trash pickup, water, all so much more money... There are just a whole lot more "free" things you can do when you can go outside at any time, don't have to worry about heat, bugs, rain, snow, ice, etc.

In CA we stayed in 2 places, both under 900 sq feet, both costing significantly more per month than our 2400sq foot home in Texas. But we didn't feel cramped or cabin fever'd because the outdoors was like a second, giant living room.

Now of course we felt the scales tip greatly when we went suddenly from 2 kids to 4. The difference in price for a 2 bedroom and a 3 bedroom are exponential, and frankly with twins on the way we were anxious to get back near our families, so with heavy heart we went back to TX, back to our 2400sq foot house, and our parks that are not habitable for 4 months out of the year. I feel like we learned a lot about frugality living in the land of triple prices, and we certainly loved our high cost of living days.

[dinan6]

We moved to virginia 4 years ago from the bay area....Just last week we were talking of moving back, I would love to but it would mean a deffinite change in lifestyle for us... smaller house, less money, maybe more commute.. I'm almost to the point where I would say I don't care about that stuff I really miss the people, the weather, being able to be outside without getting eaten up.... I may not be any help but for me I would really feel the pull to go back.... And the market might have gone down enough their maybe you could find a nicer house with not so high mortgage... Good luck...

[llamalluv]

What's the pay increase?

If you can do as shaggydaddy and rent someplace super super cheap, and just do a lot of outdoor living, you may actually come out ahead if there is a big bump in pay.

I would entertain the offers and see what turns up. You can always say no if it's not enough money for you to come out ahead.

You also have to consider that the jobs may not be right in the center of the city, which means you might be able to live in a cheaper suburb.

[Sara Badger]

We just moved from the bay area and are so happy to have left. The cost of living was killing us and making life very sad. The people are less friendly or helpful because they are always working and tried from working. We live in a house for 2 years and meet our neibghor once and still didn't know her name. My dh and I never really have the time or extra money(forgas) to get out and see much more then thing within 15 miles of us. Traffic was killer. And it's not a socially kid friendly place. Kid being real kids was not thought highly of. The only thing it had that i miss is the Trader joes and a wider range of organics but really with the money I save on everything else here I can order most of what I need and I still get to have a savings account(that was not happening in ca once it ran out it was hard to put it back in), CA also has it's own racism and it is very previlant.
If the jobs in SF area is not over 150k a year then you will have a struggle on your hands for sure.

[Sara Badger]

super cheap in SF area is still 1500 to 2500 a month in rent. and that is not in great areas or big spaces. your looking at 800 sq ft in SF 1000 sf in suburbs.
maybe visit and really see what it's like.

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sara Badger

CA also has it's own racism and it is very previlant.

So glad someone else noticed! oh man, I could not believe it when we got there! I was like... seriously deep south texas is less racist in some ways than progressive liberal California?!?!

The kids not being allowed to be kids thing is also so weird... Los Angeles, SF Bay, and the entire Pacific Northwest were all really bad about this, frankly it was confusing to me. But man, find a little pack of AP/crunchy families and it can be really nice.

[choli]

Boston is VERY high COL, but it's totally worth it to me to live car-free in a really great city. I found the 6 months I lived in the suburbs soul destroying.

Wish property around here was not so expensive, though.

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by Sara Badger

super cheap in SF area is still 1500 to 2500 a month in rent. and that is not in great areas or big spaces. your looking at 800 sq ft in SF 1000 sf in suburbs.
maybe visit and really see what it's like.

Is it still that high? I had been hearing that rents were coming down in San Fran

Both of those citys are really high COL
I say that it is worth it. We are in Portland (which I know is cheaper!!) and it is totally worth the extra $ to us. Especially with public transportation and everything. There are so many great things to go do here. And we are close to other awesome places like Seattle, Eugene, San Fran, NoCal etc.

I would do it!! Welcome back!! :

[grniys]

We just moved from a low COL (Eastern NC) place to San Diego. It was the right thing for us. We're so much happier here because there's so much for our kids to do. The weather is AMAZING!

Now, I have to admit, the higher COL isn't a big deal to us because we do live in military housing and are able to get a place much, much nicer than we could afford otherwise.

I would start looking online at some rentals and houses for sale in the area you're considering moving to. It may give you a better idea. How about asking in the Finding Your Tribe area about lower COL area's of the city?

We've decided after this we're willing to make sacrifices to be able to live in cities. We grew up in the Chicago land area and then moved to a small town for 3 years, and man, did we miss the city. But we're city people.

I'd def do more research, but for my family, living in the city is worth the added cost.

[love2bmom]

We lived in the Bay Area for 10 yrs. Our first house was a tiny tiny little thing in a not so great neighborhood for $400K. I didn't feel safe there. I didn't like taking the kids out for walks and they certainly couldn't ride their bikes on our street. CA is where dh is from. I'm from Montana. It took us two years to find a job here in MT and we moved. We live on a very quiet street in a house twice as big with a huge yard and paid $200k. The kids ride their bikes in our neighborhood all the time and although I do still keep a close eye on them, they enjoy a lot more time playing outside.
That said, MT is not exactly flush with great jobs for dh and we are trying to move to another state for better job opportunities. Here's why - two months after we bought our dream house dh was laid off. The new job did not pay as much as the first job and ever since we have gone deeper and deeper into debt. It's at the point where the money stress is too much for us and we are selling the house and looking to move to an area with more jobs in his field. He has a job interview with a company in WV today and we're hoping all goes well. But now that you're all posting about the mosquitos (shiver).
Is SF really a kid friendly place? It didn't ever seem that way to me when we lived there. I thought there had been quite a bit in the news about how the city is losing families at an astonishing rate and having to close schools because of the lack of children.
Totally up to you - just tossing in my two cents. Moving is a very tough decsion and having children involved just makes it that much more complex.

[mamamelia]

i live in the 19/20th most expensive city in the world... i think san fran was no.34? we have a pissy little home on a main road that is 35 minutes away from the city and is still $2200 a month for the mortgage. we also don't have all these things i hear about on MDC like coupon trains/games etc.. so it gets really expensive to live here, fast.

some days i think it's worth it, others not so (but that's because we are not where we want to be)... i have fantasies about moving to the country and buying a place outright but i know i'd be depressed after a while if we did move. i've become accustomed to the noise, the convenience, the type of people we have around here... if dh was on another 50K (to make 150K) i'd say we can live here quite comfortably.. another 3 years of payrises and we should be set really (assuming the whole economy doesn't collapse). we can afford to live here comfortably right now, but we'd be able to live very, very comfortably (affordable mortgage for a good size home in great leafy area, organic food etc) and have a good amount of savings on top of it if he were on 150K (which translates to around 8500 net a month).

i guess it depends on how much your dh will be making if you move??

[PabloHoneySF]

We're in the Bay Area and while I fantasize about living somewhere less urban where my kids can run around in large wooded backyard, I can't imagine not being here. I may have missed where your family is and that's a huge factor for us. My parents are a little over an hour away and that's the biggest reason why we wouldn't leave.

Yes, it's expensive, but you if you're resourceful you can find cheap/free ways to enjoy living here. I love the diversity, the openness to new ideas, the availability of fresh, organic food and I especially love not having to explain my "crunchy wierdness" as it's taken for granted here in Berkeley . I lived all over the Midwest in my 20's and while I loved the people, I was truly happy to come back to California.

Unless there's an amazing deal, I wouldn't buy right away. I still think in the Bay Area you get more for your money renting. Luckily, we're in a good situation where DH works in technology and his pay has gone up nicely over the past 4 years and I'm able to stay home with the kids. I know there is no way DH would make what he does in any other part of the country.

Congratulations on the new opportunities you have for your family!

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

Now as far as cost of living... I found that even though groceries were 2-3x what they are in Texas, gas was 20% more expensive, taxes were about 9% more of my income eating out cost about 2x as mucm, electricity, natural gas, trash pickup, water, all so much more money... There are just a whole lot more "free" things you can do when you can go outside at any time, don't have to worry about heat, bugs, rain, snow, ice, etc.

In CA we stayed in 2 places, both under 900 sq feet, both costing significantly more per month than our 2400sq foot home in Texas. But we didn't feel cramped or cabin fever'd because the outdoors was like a second, giant living room.

Now of course we felt the scales tip greatly when we went suddenly from 2 kids to 4. The difference in price for a 2 bedroom and a 3 bedroom are exponential, and frankly with twins on the way we were anxious to get back near our families, so with heavy heart we went back to TX, back to our 2400sq foot house, and our parks that are not habitable for 4 months out of the year. I feel like we learned a lot about frugality living in the land of triple prices, and we certainly loved our high cost of living days.

Thanks ShaggyDaddy!

How was the move? Do you feel like your family is in a better place now?

The cost of food, gas, clothing, everything is something to think more about. We just got back from a trip to Seattle and I was amazed at the cost of everyday basics. Simple things, toothpaste, shampoo, were remarkably more expensive than what I pay now. We travelled light, stayed with friends, avoided restaurants and still spent a small fortune on food. It really gave me pause to think about budgetting for a family of five when I was spending a week's worth of grocery money for a few days of simple foods.

And renting is an excellent idea. I have been looking at real estate as a buyer, but I will spend more time checking out rentals.

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by llamalluv

What's the pay increase?

If you can do as shaggydaddy and rent someplace super super cheap, and just do a lot of outdoor living, you may actually come out ahead if there is a big bump in pay.

I would entertain the offers and see what turns up. You can always say no if it's not enough money for you to come out ahead.

You also have to consider that the jobs may not be right in the center of the city, which means you might be able to live in a cheaper suburb.

The pay increse is significant (40-50%). Though when the pay was discussed, dh said they sounded apologetic, as if they know that even that big of a pay increase will not be enough.

I do have the option of going back to work. I have been staying home and homeschooling for the past few years. My skills are rusty, but I have enough contacts that I could land a job of some sort. I would be very sad to give up homeschooling though. It has been a wonderful life for our family.

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by Sara Badger

We just moved from the bay area and are so happy to have left. The cost of living was killing us and making life very sad. The people are less friendly or helpful because they are always working and tried from working. We live in a house for 2 years and meet our neibghor once and still didn't know her name. My dh and I never really have the time or extra money(forgas) to get out and see much more then thing within 15 miles of us. Traffic was killer. And it's not a socially kid friendly place. Kid being real kids was not thought highly of. The only thing it had that i miss is the Trader joes and a wider range of organics but really with the money I save on everything else here I can order most of what I need and I still get to have a savings account(that was not happening in ca once it ran out it was hard to put it back in), CA also has it's own racism and it is very previlant.
If the jobs in SF area is not over 150k a year then you will have a struggle on your hands for sure.

Thank you for this post. This is the situation I would like to avoid. We have a good set up where we are. Dh's income is not huge, but we can afford our house, we can afford to homeschool, we can afford to take a vacation. The COL here is not terrible and it has made it possible for us to be very comfy.

I am glad you and your family are in better place for you.

Our town is a pain in a lot of ways, but it very kid friendly. Super kid friendly in fact. We can walk to the YMCA, the kids can swim in pool, play soccer, play lacrosse and none of it costs me very much.

So, I guess I am not any closer to making a decision. : Dh and I still have a lot of talking to do.

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by love2bmom

He has a job interview with a company in WV today and we're hoping all goes well. But now that you're all posting about the mosquitos (shiver).

Yah, skeeters are the pits.


Good luck to your dh in the inetrview!

[lalaland42]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

So glad someone else noticed! oh man, I could not believe it when we got there! I was like... seriously deep south texas is less racist in some ways than progressive liberal California?!?!

The kids not being allowed to be kids thing is also so weird... Los Angeles, SF Bay, and the entire Pacific Northwest were all really bad about this, frankly it was confusing to me. But man, find a little pack of AP/crunchy families and it can be really nice.

We now live in the same area and with all due respect, TX is much more racist than Seattle.

I would leave here and go back to Seattle in a heartbeat if DH was done with his PhD and he could find a job there. I was born and raised in the burbs and lived in the city for 10 years. I moved to TX 3 years ago and am counting the days until we leave. There are certain things about TX that are more expensive. Transportation for one thing. DH and I shared a car in Seattle for 10 years and now we have 2. We had cheap insurance because we drove less than 6000 miles a year. Bus passes are generally provided with employment (MS and most downtown firms provide them). We pay a lot more here for transportation. Property taxes are cheaper, there is no state income tax (isn't in TX either but is in CA).

I disagree with "not letting kids be kids" in Seattle. Seattle is not as kid friendly and that is the biggest strike against it. The housing market in Seattle is dipping right now. The north part of the city is nice with parks and backyards and families.

CA, probably not but Seattle is much more living friendly. Besides, I don't want DD to internalize the values here and that, to me, is worth a $400,000 mortgage. Oh, and I have friends in the Bay Area and I think Seattle is cheaper.

ETA: Check out the COL calcs for your state vs. where you want to move. The salaries also tend to vary based on COL. Seattle to here is close to comparable.

[CameronsMama]

Originally Posted by lalaland42

We now live in the same area and with all due respect, TX is much more racist than Seattle.

ShaggyDaddy was talking about racism in California, not Seattle. The only thing he said about Seattle (and the whole PNW) was about being kid friendly.




I grew up in the SF bay area, and I couldn't wait to leave, as soon as we could we left and haven't looked back. It was overpriced, most people aren't very friendly, kids are for the most part expected to be seen and not heard, and many people have this strange attitude of entitlement. There is a lot of racism, it's mostly quiet undertones which is why many don't notice it, but is most definitely there. The schools are awful.

[lmonter]

Originally Posted by Ruthiegirl

So, to all those high COL moms out there -- is it worth it? Do you love your city no matter what it costs to live there? Do you feel that you are able to take advantage of the lifestyle while maintaining a tighter budget?

My sister *just* bought a little apartment in Seattle. I've been trying to get her to move near me for years. She refuses to budge, she loves it there. She started college there 7-8 years ago, got her masters, and finally got a good job last year. Up until May this year, she didn't have a car. She relied solely on public transportation, and occasionally friends that had cars (what changed? my dad needed to *not* be driving, so she took his car away from him). She still takes the bus to work downtown and just uses the car for grocery trips or to take friends somewhere on occasion or to take Dad to his doctor appointments. And up until last year, she was making almost nothing and spending maybe $100-$200 on groceries a month - she probably ate at a restaurant 2-4 times a month in addition though, but at just one person, probably not too bad.

I live in a lower COL area, and am not budging from my happy little rut. We almost accidentally ended up here, and it's perfect for us.