Lifestyle worth high COL? - Page 4

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by That Is Nice

Wow, that seems very inexpensive to me. We pay about 2 1/2 times that in property taxes for a less expensive house (about 1/3 that value).



Most of our mortgage payment is real estate taxes. It's our second biggest bill.

I knew we were in a high taxed area, but I guess I didn't realize it was that much!

This is exactly what I was thinking! We bought our house 5 years ago for 190K. We have gone through several rounds of assessment and pay 6500 a year in taxes. Half of that goes to the county and half to the city. Our taxes are 27% of our mortgage payment which seems high (though not as high as 40%, ouch). This was our first house, so we did not have a lot for a down payment and our mortgage payment is huge.

Seattle isn't really seeming that expensive. I know that I am probably missing some hidden costs and I am assuming that we are going to be able to find a decent enough house that we can afford, but overall I have been really happy with what I have found.

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[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by Ruthiegirl

This is exactly what I was thinking! We bought our house 5 years ago for 190K. We have gone through several rounds of assessment and pay 6500 a year in taxes. Half of that goes to the county and half to the city. Our taxes are 27% of our mortgage payment which seems high (though not as high as 40%, ouch). This was our first house, so we did not have a lot for a down payment and our mortgage payment is huge.

Seattle isn't really seeming that expensive. I know that I am probably missing some hidden costs and I am assuming that we are going to be able to find a decent enough house that we can afford, but overall I have been really happy with what I have found.

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Yes, that does sound like us. It is really interesting how widely tax rates vary. And yet Seattle is rated one of the top cities to live in. So the quality of life is still quite high. They must draw a lot of money for public funding from sales taxes or maybe Washington as a state gets back a lot of federal money.

[Sonnenwende]

I am thinking of moving to Western Washington from the Midwest in the spring (anywhere from Bellingham to Olympia), so this is something I am struggling with deciding now.

Pros

*Better career opportunities for my husband.
*Better weather.
*Better scenery.
*Real change of pace.
*More outdoor activities, particularly relating to sailing and hiking.
*Closer to Vancouver, BC.
*Opportunity for better public transport than what exists here.
*Less crime...I wish I were kidding. Crime index for Seattle was 470 with 24 murders in 2007. In my city it was 702 with 114 murders. :
*No income tax. We have a brutal one here. I have already paid more to the state than I have the federal government and I don't expect to see more than a few pennies of it ever again. I looked at a paycheck calculator and I have nearly $250 more free a month in Washington compared to my state.
*Sales tax is only 1.5% higher than in my own state.
*IKEA is much closer.
*I may be wrong, but college and professional sports don't seem to be some kind of religion out there like they are here. Here they built a ridiculous, extremely expensive, and absolutely unnecessary temple to them that disgusts me every time I have to look at it.


Cons

*Car inspections. We are used to driving paid for buckets that would probably fail. In my state, only a few counties require emissions testing. This state has very few quality rules, believe me.
*Most everything is going to be more expensive than what I am used to paying. Rent, car insurance, food, utilities, etc.
*Traffic is terrible from what I understand.

Personally, I think other things working in our favor are the fact that we are done with having children, have no pets, have no pressing reason to stay here where we are, and are not looking to buy a house anytime soon. I also didn't realize what an impact that state and local income taxes made on my take home as opposed to a state that doesn't have them until I calculated it this morning. Having an extra $250 may not be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it may help with the COL differences coupled with the slightly higher pay out there. Also the fact that it may be possible to be a truly one car family factors in. Here that is ultimately not possible. PT is awful.

Huh. Thanks for making this thread.

After making a real list like this, it does appear the pros outweigh the cons. Have to think about it some more though.

[ShaggyDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sonnenwende

I am thinking of moving to Western Washington from the Midwest in the spring (anywhere from Bellingham to Olympia), so this is something I am struggling with deciding now.

Stayed in Oly for long enough to be considered legal residents 2 years ago.

I dunno where you are now, but I would be willing to bet your farmer's market is not as good as theirs. We lived in strawberry country in SoCal and the oly farmer's market put ours to shame. Hah my mouth is watering now.

Oly also has a pretty fun free children's museum (maybe just 1 day per week is free) and we found walking around downtown with kiddoes to be more fun than in many other places we have gone.

I know this is random, but... Service industry employees are very often indifferent there. It is very frustrating. I don't think it is a deal breaker or anything but it is an adjustment. The waiter does not care about your tip. He/she will not make sure your order is right and your drink is full. Store clerks will not help you find what you need, and they don't care if it breaks. The exception is owner operated businesses, but we were not there long enough to find those all. This is so vastly different from CA and TX that it was a little jarring to us. Going out to eat is one of the things we do for fun, and in Washington/Oregon we did not find it fun at all. Getting a waiter who doesn't care at all to get your special order right is significantly harder to me than cooking dinner.

[Sonnenwende]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

I know this is random, but... Service industry employees are very often indifferent there. It is very frustrating. I don't think it is a deal breaker or anything but it is an adjustment. The waiter does not care about your tip. He/she will not make sure your order is right and your drink is full. Store clerks will not help you find what you need, and they don't care if it breaks. The exception is owner operated businesses, but we were not there long enough to find those all. This is so vastly different from CA and TX that it was a little jarring to us. Going out to eat is one of the things we do for fun, and in Washington/Oregon we did not find it fun at all. Getting a waiter who doesn't care at all to get your special order right is significantly harder to me than cooking dinner.

Heh, sounds like Germany. We don't really eat out that much, I think once or twice a month here. It is good to know though. I have heard other good things about Olympia, so it is definitely high on the list, but wherever the job is is where we live there.

I am really glad I have started looking into this state income tax thing. paycheckcity.com for those who are interested.

[traceface]

Originally Posted by LisainCalifornia

Our first house was in San Francisco (we saved and scraped and were able to buy a tiny little victorian which we had to work on a lot to make it a home--but we did that!), and we sold it at a very wonderful profit 4 years later. We decided to move to a small town (but still very close to S.F.--we are about 25 minutes from there in the East Bay) because my son was starting kindergarten. Again, we bought a house that needed a ton of work, but 9 years later it is home sweet home.

Ok - I agree with everything you say, but the key difference is, you got into the housing market in time, made a profit, and was able to turn that profit over into where you are now (with lots of your own hard work too, of course!)

[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by traceface

Ok - I agree with everything you say, but the key difference is, you got into the housing market in time, made a profit, and was able to turn that profit over into where you are now (with lots of your own hard work too, of course!)

Exactly.

About 15 years ago, we could have afforded a house anywhere pretty much, by scraping and saving, and with our incomes.

Now, however, because of major differences in cost of living and market appreciation, we can not afford to live in say, San Francisco, Boston, or Manhattan, etc, and probably a lot of other cities on the West Coast.

Had we started in those market at the right time, we could have made it work. But now it will never work, even with falling prices. There was just too much insane, out of control double digit yearly increases in house prices.

I think when you bought into the housing market determines quality of life and assets more now than even college education, marketable degrees, and frugal living/saving.

[jennybear]

With the exception of college, I've lived in Seattle my whole life and can't imagine being anywhere else. I definitely feel like the COL is worth the benefits, but I would be cautious in getting excited about <$300k homes you find on the web.

For me, personally, buying a home in Burien or SeaTac would be trading away what I see as the whole point in being in Seattle--great, local restaurants, beautiful scenery, great parks, great small neighborhoods, socially progressive vibe, etc. I wouldn't commute 45+ minutes each way to only see the city for work hours and spend my personal time in a so-so (or worse) area. Your quality of life will vary substantially depending on where you live in this area. I'd just make sure to choose wisely and know exactly what it is you're looking for.

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

Oly also has a pretty fun free children's museum (maybe just 1 day per week is free) and we found walking around downtown with kiddoes to be more fun than in many other places we have gone.

I love that Children's Museum! It's only free one day per month, but if you get a membership it's much cheaper and pays for itself quickly. I would drive over an hour when the kids were younger because they loved it so!

Originally Posted by Sonnenwende

Car inspections. We are used to driving paid for buckets that would probably fail. In my state, only a few counties require emissions testing. This state has very few quality rules, believe me.

That's one of the best things. Nothing is worse than cars that are constantly leaking pollution straight into my air vents. Blech. I don't want to breath it and I don't want my LOs breathing it. Although, only certain counties do emission tests.

Originally Posted by jennybear

I definitely feel like the COL is worth the benefits, but I would be cautious in getting excited about <$300k homes you find on the web.

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[That Is Nice]

Originally Posted by jennybear

With the exception of college, I've lived in Seattle my whole life and can't imagine being anywhere else. I definitely feel like the COL is worth the benefits, but I would be cautious in getting excited about <$300k homes you find on the web.

For me, personally, buying a home in Burien or SeaTac would be trading away what I see as the whole point in being in Seattle--great, local restaurants, beautiful scenery, great parks, great small neighborhoods, socially progressive vibe, etc. I wouldn't commute 45+ minutes each way to only see the city for work hours and spend my personal time in a so-so (or worse) area. Your quality of life will vary substantially depending on where you live in this area. I'd just make sure to choose wisely and know exactly what it is you're looking for.

So what would be a reasonable expectation for the price of a house in a better suburb?

And what do you think the taxes on such a house would be?

[Sonnenwende]

Originally Posted by SAHDS

That's one of the best things. Nothing is worse than cars that are constantly leaking pollution straight into my air vents. Blech. I don't want to breath it and I don't want my LOs breathing it. Although, only certain counties do emission tests.

I wasn't disagreeing with that part. I understand it. But we paid $1500 for our current car. It has an exhaust leak near the header and has random codes thrown up all the time. The Check Engine light has been on pretty much the entire year we have owned it. Not to mention it has no shifter bushings. I am not sure it would pass a safety inspection because that really weirds people out, even though my husband drives it fine.

Now, is that ideal? No. However, it is very cheap to own such a bucket. It allows us to save for other things. Moving to Seattle would require selling that bucket and buying something more expensive within a few months. It is just filed under financial disadvantages. At the same time though, offers the potential to stop there. Here there would be no choice but to have two cars.

I guess these are things you have to figure in when you do personal COL evaluations. Sure, my city is considered very cheap to live in. COL is supposed to be low. There are many hidden expenses though, like you have to have a car, most likely two, to live here (probably eats up a huge portion of the savings for most) and our tax burden is actually several places higher than Washington's. It gets very cold in the winter and very hot most summers, so more expensive heating and cooling bills. I tend to believe some things are cheaper here just because these things are more expensive to balance it all out. YMMV.

[Ruthiegirl]

Originally Posted by jennybear

With the exception of college, I've lived in Seattle my whole life and can't imagine being anywhere else. I definitely feel like the COL is worth the benefits, but I would be cautious in getting excited about <$300k homes you find on the web.

For me, personally, buying a home in Burien or SeaTac would be trading away what I see as the whole point in being in Seattle--great, local restaurants, beautiful scenery, great parks, great small neighborhoods, socially progressive vibe, etc. I wouldn't commute 45+ minutes each way to only see the city for work hours and spend my personal time in a so-so (or worse) area. Your quality of life will vary substantially depending on where you live in this area. I'd just make sure to choose wisely and know exactly what it is you're looking for.

You are so right. I know Burien is not that great. We are still doing a lot of research and trying to decide if this is something we can do. It has been nice to see that there are cheaper options available.

Burien/Seatac is too far for dh to commute. We were thinking of the area just south of the city around Georgetown would be a better option. When we vistited there this summer, we were able to see 3 different places that friends had bought in that area. Small, bit beat up, but affordable and still close enough to town.

I would love to live in one of the nicer neighborhoods -- Wallingford, Fremont, Capitiol Hill, but prices there are insane!!!!! Heck, I drove by a crappy rental I used to live in and it is a Ferrari/Maserati dealship now.

[Sharlla]

Well if you choose Seattle you don't have to live in the city, the commute is easy on the I5 and living out of the city is a heck of a lot cheaper.

[SAHDS]

Originally Posted by Sharlla

Well if you choose Seattle you don't have to live in the city, the commute is easy on the I5 and living out of the city is a heck of a lot cheaper.

It's easy, but sloooooooooooow and crazy. The stress, time and gas useage will be much higher.

[jennybear]

Originally Posted by Sharlla

Well if you choose Seattle you don't have to live in the city, the commute is easy on the I5 and living out of the city is a heck of a lot cheaper.

Traffic on I-5 is pretty bad and not something I'd want to deal with daily.

Something people interested in Seattle may want to consider is renting. Last year before we bought our house, we rented a darling little house with great fenced yard in Ballard for $1400/month. When our landlords sold the house, it went for $435k, so it's still much cheaper to rent here than buy.