Do you expect excellence? Won't sit at mealtime, won't clean up and others....

[festivefeet]

Okay, so having a three year old isn't about expecting excellence, that I know...but...

What do I do when she will not stay at the table at meal time and would rather romp about the table and play and take a bite here or there when she pleases?

Or...

When she has made a ginormous mess of the living room (we do have places for everything) and refuses to put things away? I have tried giving specific tasks and even telling her that I would help "teamwork" is the term I use, but to no avail...she normally will not clean up.

She really is a sweet little thing, but I am confused as to how I might integrate GP parenting with things my child refuses to do, without giving ultimatums and/or if/then statements or threats (like sitting in her room).

All of my situations are pretty much the same....they all come down to my daughter not wanting to do something that really needs to be done. Is it to much for me to expect my child to understand the importance of sitting at the table during meals? Or to clean up the messes she makes? Etc.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT!!!

Thanks.
Jessica

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Well, she's 3, so at that point I think most of us settle for "sometimes good enough" rather than excellence.

For mealtimes, yes, I think it is asking too much for a child to sit through an entire adult mealtime ritual. We have the kids sit and eat, but then they are excused long before DH and I have finished. And while they are at the table, conversation focuses on and includes them. No one likes to sit at meals and not be part of the conversation. If she won't sit all now, you might want to try building up to a reasonable time (10 minutes or so) in gradual steps.

For cleaning up, prevention might be part of the solution. Not getting to the ginormous mess stage in the first place by having mini-clean up sessions throughout the day. At 3 though, you have to be really specific, "Please put the blocks in the bin", work along side of them ("And I'll put the trains in this bin"). I personally think its OK to say "We need to do this before we can have a snack / go to the park / go swimming" or whatever. Its a statement of fact. Music, racing the clock, and sillyness will also go a long way. I don't know of any 3 YOs who will clean up cheerfully and willingly without some sort of encouragement. But if you make it a habit now, it will be less of an issue later.

3 is hard. They aren't going to automatically follow your directions. Its a very hands-on time, even though you feel like maybe they should be more able. If you watch a 3 YO preschool class, you'll see lots of routines, lots of prevention, lots of active modelling. Things we can use at home really easily.

My personal philosophy was to set the stage at this age by expecting help and cooperation, but also organizing the world to prevent a lot of the issues that were likely to come up. It gets easier as they get a bit older and a bit more able to understand why things are important to do.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by festivefeet

What do I do when she will not stay at the table at meal time and would rather romp about the table and play and take a bite here or there when she pleases?

I don't see why she can't get up and play and come back to the food later. If I want to get up from the table, I do. So does dh. So I don't see any reason to treat our children any differently.

If dh and I are sitting and eating and talking, our girls generally do stay close by, even if they don't feel like sitting the whole time. They like to be part of the "togetherness." They're just not always in the mood to sit and eat at that time. But I still feel like we're "together" if we're in the same room!

Or...

When she has made a ginormous mess of the living room (we do have places for everything) and refuses to put things away? I have tried giving specific tasks and even telling her that I would help "teamwork" is the term I use, but to no avail...she normally will not clean up.

I would just start cleaning it up myself -- maybe suggest one or two simple things she could do to help, but not force the issue. Maybe she's overwhelmed after she's made a big mess? Maybe she'll be more amenable to helping if she feels like you're cleaning and she's helping you, rather than the other way around?

[mamazee]

At 3, I'd give up on the sitting still through meal time, and I'd model the cleaning up thing (and try to have a good attitude about it so it doesn't look like an awful job to her) and hope she learns by watching and that she starts to pitch in.

Yesterday my daughter had a friend over to play, and when the friend went home, I went into my daughter's room and found her tidying up BY HERSELF. I was shocked and amazed. She said things got a little messy but she was just going to spend a little time putting things back. IMO they really will get it eventually if you consistently model and regularly try to get them to work with you as they can (and at 3 that won't be a whole lot).

[GuildJenn]

I also try to look at my son's whole day. One of the insights I got from "The Secret of Parenting" is that kids sometimes come home and throw their worst selves around, because that is where it is safe. And because they are tired out from their days.

So, for my son - Saturday night after a good day is when we work on a family dinner (or better yet a family lunch) with good sitting. Thursday night after a long day at daycare, not quite so much (he is still given the opportunity to sit with us and have a proper meal, but we're tolerant of his need to get down. And up. And down. )

I agree that cleaning up has to be in tiny chunks at this age. I tend to ask him to help me, let him not-really-help until the last few things, and then really focus on that - then he gets the success of being all done. Also a calm routine helps.

[ktmama]

I don't know what to say about the mealtime thing except my three yo is always the first one to leave the table. That being said, mealtime continues until *everyone* is done and my expectation is that she find something else to do that doesn't involve mama or papa helping or playing. Also, I only cook dinner once, so if she's still hungry after dinner, she can have a healthy snack like a piece of fruit or whatever until she's full. No one goes to bed hungry

As for the cleaning bit, we do lots of modeling of putting our own things away every day and big sister is a terrific help here since she's a neat-nick. We have a playroom and I'm pretty lax about picking up, but I do need to clean the floor once a week. So the girls and I once a week pick up all the dress-up, puzzles, coloring, etc so mama can clean the floor. Another strategy is if M is coming over for a playdate, A always wants to put her things away because M has a tendency to break things.

Anyway, my approach with a three yo would be to discuss her reluctance to clean up and help her name her feelings about it and then ask for what she needs. It's a good opportunity to help her tune into feeling overwhelmed or tired or unmotivated and ask for help or the ability to clean up half now and half after snack or whatever. When we do this, I get tons more buy-in because my kids consider it *their* plan, not mine.

BTW, I really do think there's a difference between saying, "Sure, we'll go to the park honey. Let's pick up your toys so we can go!" than saying, "You can't go to the park until your toys are picked up!".

[ilovebabies]

Practice the behavior you expect during non conflict times. I've found this to work well for my dd. A friend told me about it so I gave it a try.

During the day sometime when she's in a good mood (not tired, not hungry, not in conflict, not crabby---rare in a 3 year old I know! ) and let her know you're going to practice sitting at the table (or whatever you need to practice). Set out some play dishes and play food and let her know how you expect her to sit at the table. Then practice. You may want to set the timer for 5 minutes or whatever works for you and then let her know what a great job she did when she sits the whole time. Then go on to tell her that during dinner time, you want to practice this again and see how long she will sit at the table. Just cater it to how you want to teach her, but you get the idea.

I've been doing this with my 2 year old regarding coming when I call her. We've had an issue with her not coming to me and running the other direction so I knew this needed worked on. We make it fun and do a lot of practice. So now, when I tell her to come to me, I can see her stopping and thinking. It's working!

Good luck!

[ktmama]

Practice the behavior you expect during non conflict times.

This is such a great way to state this. BTW, this is the Montessori way!

[One_Girl]

Shorter meal times that are at times when dd is hungry work really well for me. She needs a couple hours between snack and meal time to truly eat and she stays longer if she feels part of the conversation. For clean-up I used to clean up and sing the Barney clean up time and I thank dd for helping to keep the room clean. Usually she will clean up when asked now and sometimes when she isn't asked. She also is quick to point out when something is dirty and she does her share by cleaning. For a lot of other things she doesn't like to do, a lot of getting her to do them anyways relies on how well I sell the activity and a positive experience doing it. I talk it up a lot while we are doing it and thank her for her help and cooperation.

[justice'smom]

This probably isn't gentle discipline, but it works for us. We do expect our kids to sit at the table until they are done eating. Once they are done eating though they ask to get down and then they can leave and go play. We don't expect them to stay at the table the entire time we do, but we do expect them to stay until they are done. If they get down though they are all done. It didn't take very long for them to understand that. My 2 yr old is still in a booster seat so he doesn't even try to get down until he's done. I'm planning to keep him there as long as possible.
As for the cleaning up my 4 yr old is usually very good at it, but he likes order. My two year old is a little harder. We actually have to walk along side him and say grab the cars and put them in the car bin. Also like another mom said they have to clean up before the next activity or before bed every night. I think once you find something that works stick with it.

[phathui5]

As far as meals go, we have our children clear their plates when they leave the table. That way they know that leaving the table means mealtime is over and I don't have to clear a bunch of plates myself. Everyone does it except for the one year old.

[aaronsmom]

Originally Posted by ilovebabies

Practice the behavior you expect during non conflict times.

Duuuuuuuude! Love this idea!

[GracesMama]

I don't understand why it's a problem to tell your child they can't do something if they do ____ (fill in the blank)

Today, we were at the beach and DD was being a pain. I told her that if she wanted to go to the beach again that afternoon with Daddy, she would have to listen and follow directions (like not running away from me towards the street and carrying her shoes to the car). At one point I reminded her and said, "You won't be able to go to the beach with Daddy if you do..."

What's wrong with that? I'm not trying to be annoying, I just want to understand.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by GracesMama

I don't understand why it's a problem to tell your child they can't do something if they do ____ (fill in the blank)

Today, we were at the beach and DD was being a pain. I told her that if she wanted to go to the beach again that afternoon with Daddy, she would have to listen and follow directions (like not running away from me towards the street and carrying her shoes to the car). At one point I reminded her and said, "You won't be able to go to the beach with Daddy if you do..."

What's wrong with that? I'm not trying to be annoying, I just want to understand.

something about imposing a consequence? Some people here don't believe in imposing any consequence for behavior. It's definitely not something I subscribe to. I'm eager to hear the explanation, too!

[ilovebabies]

Originally Posted by GracesMama

I don't understand why it's a problem to tell your child they can't do something if they do ____ (fill in the blank)

Today, we were at the beach and DD was being a pain. I told her that if she wanted to go to the beach again that afternoon with Daddy, she would have to listen and follow directions (like not running away from me towards the street and carrying her shoes to the car). At one point I reminded her and said, "You won't be able to go to the beach with Daddy if you do..."

What's wrong with that? I'm not trying to be annoying, I just want to understand.

Nothing at all if it works for your child. If you've ever had a very strong willed child, you wouldn't ask that question because you'd understand. You have to find what works for each child. My 12 year old was very strong willed and I tried that method on her and she didn't care. She's wonderful now (for all of you with strong willed ones who need some hope!), but when she was little.... ooooh boy, I had to get creative!

Also, depending on the age, they might not be able to think that far ahead and match the consequence with what they didn't do correctly earlier. If it were immediate, then that's one thing, but a few hours away or the next day, they might not put it together.

One other thing, I personally don't like holding things constantly over my children's heads. What happens when I have nothing to hold over their head at that moment or that day? Then they won't listen. I want my children to listen and obey for different reasons as well. KWIM?

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by festivefeet

Okay, so having a three year old isn't about expecting excellence, that I know...but...

What do I do when she will not stay at the table at meal time and would rather romp about the table and play and take a bite here or there when she pleases?

Or...

When she has made a ginormous mess of the living room (we do have places for everything) and refuses to put things away? I have tried giving specific tasks and even telling her that I would help "teamwork" is the term I use, but to no avail...she normally will not clean up.

She really is a sweet little thing, but I am confused as to how I might integrate GP parenting with things my child refuses to do, without giving ultimatums and/or if/then statements or threats (like sitting in her room).

All of my situations are pretty much the same....they all come down to my daughter not wanting to do something that really needs to be done. Is it to much for me to expect my child to understand the importance of sitting at the table during meals? Or to clean up the messes she makes? Etc.

ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT!!!

Thanks.
Jessica

Your girl sounds exactly like my own 3 yo dd and honestly I do nothing. We sit down together, say grace and generally 9 out of 10 times she is up before we are finished eating. I'm not into power struggles over food so the rule is she can get up and play but that it is not reasonable to expect us to play with her while we are eating. Generally my dd will come back to her food and actually eat before bedtime infact we tend to leave her food on the table when we clean up.

This behavior used to bug me until I realized its developmentally appropriate, the only place I tend to enforce any rule that she must sit down is when we are out at a resteraunt, in that case she must hang at the table with us.

I think dealing with tis behavior is frustrating until you realize its appropriate for their age.

Shay

[Norasmomma]

I personally have decided that you have to pick your battles, and I most of the time choose no battles. I just tell DD that daddy and I are eating and we would like to have a nice dinner, if you want to join us that would be wonderful, if not I would like you to please just play quietly in the living room. She usually ends up eating with us and "conversing".

I've given up on most things, she's a child, I don't expect her to put her books away, but I appreciate it when she helps me, and I tell her this.

Having a toddler has made me reevaluate my expectations of a child, and let them develop in an appropriate manner. IDk, I just choose my battles now. I'm worn down a bit.

[justice'smom]

Originally Posted by Norasmomma

I personally have decided that you have to pick your battles, and I most of the time choose no battles. I just tell DD that daddy and I are eating and we would like to have a nice dinner, if you want to join us that would be wonderful, if not I would like you to please just play quietly in the living room. She usually ends up eating with us and "conversing".

I've given up on most things, she's a child, I don't expect her to put her books away, but I appreciate it when she helps me, and I tell her this.

Having a toddler has made me reevaluate my expectations of a child, and let them develop in an appropriate manner. IDk, I just choose my battles now. I'm worn down a bit.

When will you expect her to help out? I'm asking because my mom didn't expect us to help out and so I never did. I resented anyone that asked me to help them out. I didn't understand that being a part of a family is learning to help out and not expect things to be done for you. It wasn't until I met my husbands family that I finally got it and honestly I'm still learning. Don't take my question wrong. Please. I'm just curious. I have yet to find the manuel on what is and is not age approiate. I'm sure there is a book out there, but I haven't found it yet.

[Norasmomma]

I didn't mean it like I never expect her to help out, I just don't make a huge deal about it. She likes to help me cook, she helps by grabbing the books off the floor while I put them away because if she puts them away herself the will be a huge jumbled mess. My DD is 2 I can't expect her to pick things up because well she's still pretty little.

I let her help in what I believe is age appropriate, she has a little broom she sweeps with, when I cook I give her a little cutting board a butter knife and a piece of cheese, that way she is helping from her perspective, I also let her rinse the dishes, are they rinsed, umm not really so I do it again. I just meant that I don't make a big deal out of it, I'm a relaxed mother, she knows that we clean up and that she helps, I guess my point is making an effort is the biggest thing for me.

I also make an effort to not have things be an issue, because my DD is strong willed and the more I push the more she pushes back, so I have had to change my behavior(and it was hard). I'm a my way or the highway kind of person, I have had to just realize that there are different approaches, and well it is constantly evolving.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by justice'smom

This probably isn't gentle discipline, but it works for us. We do expect our kids to sit at the table until they are done eating. Once they are done eating though they ask to get down and then they can leave and go play. We don't expect them to stay at the table the entire time we do, but we do expect them to stay until they are done. If they get down though they are all done.

Same here. If he doesn't want to sit at all (happened twice) then it's usually something just wrong with him (like he's sick) but generally he's OK with it. I wouldn't easily tolerate him getting up and down. I think that's rude.

Cleaning up - I do expect him to pick up a mess he deliberately made (or help me). I am thinking specifically of when he throws food on the floor. 9/10 he'll pick it up with persuasion. Persuasion might mean that the TV goes off until he picks it up. Or I'll remind him that we can't continue to play our puzzle or whatever unless he picks it up. 1/10 times this doesn't work and I just let it go. But I am working on it. I think it's important and I think it would be selling him short to just let him pick up whenever he wanted and let him get up and down from the table 50 times.