Do you expect excellence? Won't sit at mealtime, won't clean up and others.... - Page 2

[Ruthla]

If the toys on the floor are too much for her to clean up AND the mess bothers you, then maybe you need to have fewer toys available to her to play with at one time.

At age 3 I think it's more important to model "organized behaviors" than it is to make the child do the cleaning. "Let's clean up together" is OK even if you clean up 95% of the toys while she sits near you dawdling. Once she gets used to a clear playing space, and sees how cleanup happens, she's more likely to do it in the future than if she gets used to living in relative chaos.

Expecting her to sit through the meal is asking too much IMO. At that age, I'd give my kids a choice between sitting at the table or playing, but no food away from the table. I was OK with a little playing at the table as long as it didn't involve a ton of toys that could get full of food or clutter on the table. One doll to "eat with us" was perfectly acceptable.

[justice'smom]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

If the toys on the floor are too much for her to clean up AND the mess bothers you, then maybe you need to have fewer toys available to her to play with at one time.

At age 3 I think it's more important to model "organized behaviors" than it is to make the child do the cleaning. "Let's clean up together" is OK even if you clean up 95% of the toys while she sits near you dawdling. Once she gets used to a clear playing space, and sees how cleanup happens, she's more likely to do it in the future than if she gets used to living in relative chaos.

Expecting her to sit through the meal is asking too much IMO. At that age, I'd give my kids a choice between sitting at the table or playing, but no food away from the table. I was OK with a little playing at the table as long as it didn't involve a ton of toys that could get full of food or clutter on the table. One doll to "eat with us" was perfectly acceptable.

This is what I don't understand. I have a four and two year old and they can both sit at the table until they are done eating and they can both clean up their toys. I personally don't expect my two yr old to go clean the toys by himself. I walk along with him and we clean together. However I don't think it's okay he makes a mess and then I am supposed to clean it up. We didn't expect him to clean up his toys until he was two, but I personally think two is age approiate for that. I think there are many kids that if you wait they are going to think they don't have to do anything. I definantly think by three a kid is ready for all those things. By the way my two year old is very strong willed.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by justice'smom

I think there are many kids that if you wait they are going to think they don't have to do anything

ITA. In my house growing up I never had to do anything. Not because my mother had some grand ideology about it. But because nobody could do it the way she wanted is a bit martyr-y. At any rate it's very hard for me to clean up now. It's just not a habit for me and I really need to structure my day to do it.

I think waiting until children magically want to help of their own volition is a bad idea, personally.

[D_McG]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

Expecting her to sit through the meal is asking too much IMO.

WHY though? it takes DS about 10 minutes to eat enough to feel done. If my 2 year old couldn't sit still for 10 minutes I'd be worried.

[shayinme]

Originally Posted by D_McG

WHY though? it takes DS about 10 minutes to eat enough to feel done. If my 2 year old couldn't sit still for 10 minutes I'd be worried.

I think it depends on the kid, my eldest who is now 16 was easy going and could sit at 3 for 10 mins and eat dinner no problem. My dd who is 3 is a ball of energy and at dinner time she is up and down. I joke that she's been spirited since she was in the womb, nothing is wrong with her she just likes to go-go. It doesn't bug me since she does eventually eat albeit when its almost bed time but that's another story, but it drives my dh crazy. I look at it this way, I pick my battles. I know she can sit through a meal since she does it when we eat out but I feel like home should be comfy and frankly sometimes her getting up to play just allows dh & I time to connect and enjoy our meal.

[mamazee]

My daughter couldn't sit still for 10 minutes at 2. She had to sit for 15 minutes quietly to wait for something the other day and wasn't really able to handle that either, and she's 6. I'm not worried, but she is a handful. All kids are different.

[D_McG]

I guess I only know my son! So if HE couldn't sit for 10 minutes I'd be worried. I'm expecting a girl next month. She'll probably be the opposite!

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by justice'smom

This is what I don't understand. I have a four and two year old and they can both sit at the table until they are done eating and they can both clean up their toys. I personally don't expect my two yr old to go clean the toys by himself. I walk along with him and we clean together. However I don't think it's okay he makes a mess and then I am supposed to clean it up. We didn't expect him to clean up his toys until he was two, but I personally think two is age approiate for that. I think there are many kids that if you wait they are going to think they don't have to do anything. I definantly think by three a kid is ready for all those things. By the way my two year old is very strong willed.

Well to me it's a lot in the presentation, and also in what we want to tolerate.

For my son, he definitely can sit at the table until he's done, which is about 5 minutes most days. (He usually has a tolerance to stay seated another 5-10 minutes past that.) But my husband and I continue eating.

If he wants to rejoin us, I don't have a problem with it. He eats politely, asks to be excused, and at the end of the meal (when everyone is finished) he clears his plate.

But we've never made it a formal rule or a battle. If we were having issues we'd address them. But there are no issues. But at this age, it's fine with me if he changes his mind and comes back, during the normal course of the meal. I can see why people don't want kids running around screaming and waving pieces of potato.

But I'm not quite sure why sitting at the table for X number of minutes and then not coming back even if you find you're still hungry or would like more conversation is more virtuous than not.

When he's older we'll reinforce what the cultural standards are for not getting down and up. I'm confident that his brain will not have frozen at age three and that at his own wedding or first business lunch he'll wander off to play Legos. ☺

With cleaning up, maybe if someone gets to 10 or 11 and doesn't clean up, then there's a problem. But at 2 or 3 I think it can go both ways.

I'm very into my son helping… and so is he, naturally. He is eagerly awaiting the age he will be old enough to clean the cat littler (no joke! He cries when he can't.) But if he downright refuses one time, I'm not prepared to make a battle out of it.

I also think that for some personality types it is horribly overwhelming to show them a big mess and say "clean it up." My niece is this way. She really just can't cope. Now that she's in her teens she's fine but up until very recently she really needed adult guidance in terms of helping her break a "big mess" up into smaller tasks.

FTR, my mother made me clean a LOT as a child. She had very high standards and was determined not to raise lazy kids. But it wasn't "let's do this together," it was "go do this right now." It has made me feel resentment about having to clean well into my adult years. I think there are ways to involve kids (as you outlined) in cleaning without making them feel diminished in the process.

For me, the occasional time I have to clean up alone is worth it to maintain a positive, happy tone around cleaning.