Adoption and the biological fathers rights - Page 2

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by 2lilsweetfoxes

How about the opposite--the women who thwart the father's attempts to be involved at every turn out of spite or whatever, so that he "doesn't mess up the plan"--especially if she's already "promised" the baby to someone?

Does this really happen often? I have a hard time believing it honestly. And if it did, if there was such a dedicated unmarried father, then wouldn't he be advised to document his attempts and her thwarting? Take legal action immediately even?

Originally Posted by 2lilsweetfoxes

And sometimes a man may be advised to not have much to do with the pregnancy if he has any doubt as to whether or not he is actually the father, to wait for a DNA test so that he does not end up having to support someone else's kid.

Jebus... this is a sad world we live in if a man got such advisements.... seriously, is it really possible that such a man could not claim to have been mislead by the woman upon eventual DNA testing? I know men who were falsely accused of fathering. The accuser never took it further simply because he wanted a DNA test. She dropped it at that.

When men are neglectful (or worse, abusive) during pregnancy is it not typically about his doubting the woman has been unfaithful. Something else is at play.

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

We do need laws in place that protect the men who love that child just as much as any mother too, though. That's why the father has to have the right to contest an adoption. So that the ones like my DH don't come out the other end having had their child stolen from them.

We can't let a woman's rights trump a mans. If he didn't want a baby, he should have taked steps to prevent it. But the same goes for her, if she didn't want a child or couldn't take care of one at that time, there are things she can do as well.

Just as there are things she can do to remove the man from her childs life. But, if there is no evidence of abuse or of him being an unfit father, the court isn't going to take away his right to be a father just because she doesn't want him to be.

You are right.

I suppose I feel that something should be in place to protect mother and baby prenatally from mistreatment from the father. The fetus would have a smoother ride and the baby would come into a happier world if the father felt he had to treat the baby he loved and wanted well from the moment her realized it was there.

I think of a wonderful, strong woman that I know who was abandoned for another woman by the father of their DS when DS was 7 months away from being born. She describes the pregnancy as the hardest thing she ever experienced (and she's undergone some terrible experiences). 2 days after the birth of DS (wherein she became severely septic from her c-section and nearly died), her DS's father showed-up and proposed. I kid you not. Had not spoken to her throughout her pregnancy, yet felt this was a chivalrous move. She accepted and they are now married, yet she has a deep well of untouchable pain from this experience. And as for the father, he sees his prenatal neglect as another example of "all men go a bit crazy when they are having a baby". He showed no real remorse.

This is not a situation where adoption was not likely as she wanted the child, but I mention it as it seems part of a continuum where men feel justified in mistreating the birth mother and then assuming all rights after her labor.

Worse case scenario is when the man is abusive. Sometimes severely so. It's tragic stuff, and I don't know...
might it be different if more accountability was placed on dad's-to-be in law and society?

[ghannit]

I just wanted to say thank you to all who have given their opinions on this question of mine. Adoption is on my mind allot these days, as many people around me are somehow dealing with it one way or another. My DD is 8 months old and although I'd never considered adoption personally, having her made the reality of children and babies and life and love and sacrifice and commitment all the more prescient to me... and led me to take further notice if what some of those whom I love have gone through, having adopted, been adopted, given for adoption, or considered adoption.

I have taken further notice yet here, and will hopefully continue to do so.

[tuffykenwell]

[QUOTE=ghannit;12246708]Does this really happen often? I have a hard time believing it honestly. And if it did, if there was such a dedicated unmarried father, then wouldn't he be advised to document his attempts and her thwarting? Take legal action immediately even? [/unquote]

I have seen this scenario more than once so I would say that yes it does happen (and unfortunately the courts can perpetuate this injustice in some cases).

The point of the matter is that when there are children involved both parents should be looking out for the childs best interest but in many cases they are too busy with their own issues to do so!

Steph

[RedOakMomma]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

We can't let a woman's rights trump a mans. If he didn't want a baby, he should have taked steps to prevent it. But the same goes for her, if she didn't want a child or couldn't take care of one at that time, there are things she can do as well.

I agree with this. A woman is not "powerless" or choice-less as someone mentioned. A woman who finds herself pregant with an abusive partner's child (usually) made a choice: have sex with that man.

When two adults, no matter their emotional or moral deficiencies, choose to have sex, they're also choosing to risk the potential outcomes. A woman isn't a victim for getting pregnant, yk? She owns some of the responsibility for choosing to have sex, and risk pregnancy, with a poor choice of a partner.

That said, I think a woman should be able to protect herself from abuse, especially during pregnancy and with a young child. It's far too difficult to prove abuse and get sufficient protection, and I totally agree that mothers who want their children chose abortion or adoption because they feel it's best for the baby...even if, under different circumstances, they'd want to raise the child on their own. It's very sad.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by ghannit

Does this really happen often? I have a hard time believing it honestly. And if it did, if there was such a dedicated unmarried father, then wouldn't he be advised to document his attempts and her thwarting? Take legal action immediately even? .

I dont know if it happens "often" but i do know in the two most famous cases of adoption's failing and older children being given back to their birthfamily (Baby Richard and Baby Jessica) the situations occurred because of efforts to conceal the children from their birthfather's. In "Baby Jessica", the mother intentionally put the wrong man down on the bc because she knew the real father would not consent to the adoption, and in "Baby Richard", the mother (with the coercion of the adoptive parents) told the father the baby had died, and when he found out shortly thereafter the baby was alive, he started fighting for him. It took like four years for him to get his son back though.

If a man is abusive throughout pregnancy, there may be steps a woman can take to sever his rights...as was suggested to the OP, she really needs to consult a lawyer about it, document, etc. I assume an adoption agency could possibly assist her in finding out the laws in her area. In some places, its super easy to terminate a father's rights (look at Utah)...in others not so much.

Katherine

[Sarahbunny]

I'm a little bothered by some of the statements in this thread. There seems to be quite a bit of vilifying of birthparents - fathers in particular.

First, there seems to be a ongoing statement of adoptions happening because the parent/s didn't want the child. That isn't the case, as far as I know. Children are desperately wanted in most cases - but the reality of the situation has the parent/s choose adoption.

Second, I disagree whole heartedly with the assumption that most mothers who place their child for adoption are feeling severely threatened/abused/etc by the father of the child. For one thing, fathers are involved in adoption placements in many cases. For another, it is too simplistic to say that adoptions happen for that reason. There are many reasons why a woman chooses adoption.

To say that most of the time, the father must be dangerous is completely disrespectful of a woman's choice and pretty naive, I think.

I would think it is much more likely that a mother doesn't feel capable of raising a child completely by herself, rather than trying to use adoption as a sort of witness protection program.

[Tigerchild]

Originally Posted by ghannit

I personally never considered adoption myself with DD. It is unfair & a bit demeaning that you'd suggest my concern with this issue is personal.

I didn't assume that you had any connection to adoption yourself (in fact I kind of assumed that you did not). However, you've made reference several times to women being abused/abandoned and control taken away from them. You've discounted that it happens 'all that often' in the reverse. To me, that suggests that you have either witnessed or had someone treat you that way. You've stated over and over that you fear that happening to women, while being dismissive when people bring up that men are also deceived and 'forced' into adopting their child.

I am an adoptee and a domestic violence survivor. I worry about those things too, but I would never ever extrapolate those fears to blanket adoption policy, because it's an unwise thing to do.

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by Tigerchild

I didn't assume that you had any connection to adoption yourself (in fact I kind of assumed that you did not). However, you've made reference several times to women being abused/abandoned and control taken away from them. You've discounted that it happens 'all that often' in the reverse. To me, that suggests that you have either witnessed or had someone treat you that way. You've stated over and over that you fear that happening to women, while being dismissive when people bring up that men are also deceived and 'forced' into adopting their child.

I am an adoptee and a domestic violence survivor. I worry about those things too, but I would never ever extrapolate those fears to blanket adoption policy, because it's an unwise thing to do.

I hear you... I agree that blanket legislation (based solely on my concerns for women/the prenatal child) would be a mistake. I suppose I just wish that there was more protection/support for women facing these struggles. Again, if only for the developing baby's (particularly in utero) sake. I still feel surprised and dismayed that there actually is not more.

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by RedOakMomma

I agree with this. A woman is not "powerless" or choice-less as someone mentioned. A woman who finds herself pregant with an abusive partner's child (usually) made a choice: have sex with that man.

When two adults, no matter their emotional or moral deficiencies, choose to have sex, they're also choosing to risk the potential outcomes. A woman isn't a victim for getting pregnant, yk? She owns some of the responsibility for choosing to have sex, and risk pregnancy, with a poor choice of a partner.

So true.

[ghannit]

Originally Posted by Sarahbunny

I'm a little bothered by some of the statements in this thread. There seems to be quite a bit of vilifying of birthparents - fathers in particular.

First, there seems to be a ongoing statement of adoptions happening because the parent/s didn't want the child. That isn't the case, as far as I know. Children are desperately wanted in most cases - but the reality of the situation has the parent/s choose adoption.

Second, I disagree whole heartedly with the assumption that most mothers who place their child for adoption are feeling severely threatened/abused/etc by the father of the child. For one thing, fathers are involved in adoption placements in many cases. For another, it is too simplistic to say that adoptions happen for that reason. There are many reasons why a woman chooses adoption.

To say that most of the time, the father must be dangerous is completely disrespectful of a woman's choice and pretty naive, I think.

I would think it is much more likely that a mother doesn't feel capable of raising a child completely by herself, rather than trying to use adoption as a sort of witness protection program.

I absolutely didn't mean to suggest that the only reason women choose adoption is due to an abusive birth-father. I know this is not the case. In fact I think that most women (all in fact) choose adoption because "mother doesn't feel capable of raising a child completely by herself". My initial question/concern was based on the choice that this mother in this scenario is then faced with (if she has great concerns about the birth-father): To give the child to a more able family, OR to keep that child in her supposed less-able care because she thinks that the birth-father will end-up with the child if she tries (even considers) adoption. My initial question centered on my disbelief that this was a real concern for the mother. I thought that it would have to be up to her (if she was unmarried/not living with the father).

I was wrong, and for better or worse, a previous poster is right: to have sex with a partner not chosen very carefully sets a girl/woman up to have to make a HUGE decision. And as girls we're always told that adoption is one of the choices. But ultimately it's not really.

I'm not even decided if I feel that is a bad thing.