DH being pressured to drink...

[EarthMamaToBe]

My DH is being pressured to drink to advance at work. His co-workers often meet up to drink (heavily) and although he sometimes joins them (as do I) I don't drink because we are TTC and he just rarely drinks, so he will have a beer and then soda. But they CONSTANTLY pressure him to drink more. It's like he's joined a fraternity. It has been suggested to him that he'd advance faster if he were "more social" meaning if he got wasted with his co-workers every week. What can we do about this? We have very compelling reasons not to drink which we'd rather not have to share with everyone but I don't want him to miss out on promotions just because we don't drink. He has been with the company a little over a year now. Is getting drunk with your 22-25 year old colleagues really necessary? DH is the only person at the company (including his boss who is in the UK 9-10 months a year) with a masters degree and the only one who actually shows up on time and is not running for the door at 5:01. Shouldn't his work ethic count for more than how much beer he can consume in one night? They get drunk and then sit around and talk about all the stupid stuff they do when they are drunk. It is disgusting. DH loves the company and his job but this is SO unfair! Not to mention DH is 115 lbs and just could not drink like they do even if he wanted to!

[ShaggyDaddy]

Do they always drink at the same place? If so, he can get to know the Bartenders and ask them to bring him non-alcoholic versions every time he gives the "signal". Of course, if you expect the bar-tender to help you pull a fast one, be prepared to tip well, as if you were buying real drinks.

I am calculating like that in my business dealings though.... sometimes a lie like that is worth it, sometimes not.

[EarthMamaToBe]

I wish they did ShaggyDaddy, but it is always a new place and they all want to drink (and want DH to drink) BEER. Lots and Lots of beer. Both DH and I are former bartenders and I have done this very same thing for people who just did not want to drink! Very good suggestion though, even though it won't work in our case. Maybe we can get them to find a "regular" bar where this might work though!

As it is I've told them I don't drink since we are TTC but did not REALLY want to share this info with them due to our history of MC's but they would NOT leave me alone about drinking until I did. Now we just have to put up with lots of personal questions:

BTW I LOVE seeing daddies here too!

[Caneel]

A mom, not a dad, chiming in:

Originally Posted by EarthMamaToBe

Is getting drunk with your 22-25 year old colleagues really necessary?

No but unfortunately, in my often-the-only-woman-in-the-department corporate experience, men band together extremely tightly over shared interests whether it is sports, bar hoping, hunting, etc. It is tough being the only one not "in the club" so to speak

Originally Posted by EarthMamaToBe

they CONSTANTLY pressure him to drink more. It's like he's joined a fraternity. It has been suggested to him that he'd advance faster if he were "more social" meaning if he got wasted with his co-workers every week.

Awful but not uncommon. He isn't alone.

When I was in banking, it was sports. It was the unspoken rule that you (guys only, girls weren't invited) either played tennis with the execs or joined the basketball league with the middle managers. Unsurprisingly, the newbies who were tennis players rocketed to better positions must faster than the bb players.

Its like the cool kids on the playground just grow up and find each other at work. They likely know the behavior is wrong otherwise, why would they pressure him so much?

How big is the company?

He could organize his thoughts on the subject and speak to his supervisor about his concerns about the peer pressure and veiled threats (for lack of a better word) about not drinking enough.

If that doesn't work, maybe he needs to speak to human resources.

He should, unfortunately, be prepared for backlash. He might want to keep that resume sharp and his eyes on a better job down the road.

So sorry to hear you are stuck in this situation. I never come to this section but the title jumped out at me. Good luck in TTC!

[medaroge]

Well on our end it is not drinking, but golf. DH does not like golf, but it seems like thats the way to get buddy buddy with the higher ups, yk? so frustrating.

[EarthMamaToBe]

Hi Mama! Thanks for your thoughtful response! There are only 7 ppl who work for his company stateside, his "boss" is usually in the UK for months at a time and there is no HR unfortunately. I have run across this before in business but maybe since I am a woman ppl back off easier. Alcoholism runs in DH's family and so he chooses to be very cautious about alcohol. I've wondered if him telling them that he does not drink because his twin little brothers are alcoholics and one (who lives with us) just got out of prison after driving drunk and nearly killing someone. These co-workers drive drunk ALL THE TIME.

Sports, alcohol does anyone else wonder what these have to do with business. DH would rather be at home with his family that out drinking and I think THAT should be commended not looked down upon! (All his coworkers are single save one)

[ShaggyDaddy]

it is very true about the bonding thing. There were times in my career where we were struggling to make ends meet, yet it was essential that I go out to lunch, spending money we really didn't have almost every day. It sounds minor, but come budget time it felt so stupid that going out for tacos was a priority over, say paying down debt... but here I am and it did work.

Fortunatly I am in a geek profession, so most of our "bonding" is over movies, gadgets, and video games... not exactly difficult for me to join in. Although honestly lately I have kind of forced myself into getting obsessive about economics and stocks/trading, not because I will actually gamble with my own money, but because I can join in on conversations with people much higher on the food chain than me, I can impress them, intimidate them, and bond with them, and it serves my career well. I still refuse to golf though... screw golf.

[EarthMamaToBe]

Originally Posted by ShaggyDaddy

it is very true about the bonding thing. There were times in my career where we were struggling to make ends meet, yet it was essential that I go out to lunch, spending money we really didn't have almost every day. It sounds minor, but come budget time it felt so stupid that going out for tacos was a priority over, say paying down debt... but here I am and it did work.

Fortunatly I am in a geek profession, so most of our "bonding" is over movies, gadgets, and video games... not exactly difficult for me to join in. Although honestly lately I have kind of forced myself into getting obsessive about economics and stocks/trading, not because I will actually gamble with my own money, but because I can join in on conversations with people much higher on the food chain than me, I can impress them, intimidate them, and bond with them, and it serves my career well. I still refuse to golf though... screw golf.

LOL I agree with screw golf! At least it's not golf! I wish the "bonding" was over gadgets (total geek myself) video games or movies, I could handle that! We've even tried to host a get together "game night" kind of thing (with beer) but they are ONLY interested in getting drunk and sitting around talking about getting drunk. It's like they never made it out of college! And since the boss is always out of the country he does not notice how the others come in late take LONG (drinking) lunches and leave early. It is SO frustrating! Thus far he just tries to drink real slow (Last night he drank 2 beers in the time the other drank 6-7). He carpools and the girl he rides with was SO LATE and SO STILL DRUNK this morning that when she FINALLY got here she had to ask DH to drive. (She is 22). DH is 29 and just over all this party stuff.

Thanks for your insight SD!

[EarthMamaToBe]

DH was just home for lunch and apparently the whole group stayed out drinking until TWO AM last night. The person he carpools with was still drunk this morning (DH drove) when she got here to pick him up! WTH

[jighead]

Sorry to hear about the situation, rough work situations can really take a toll on a family.

If DH likes the job, but not he people, something has to give. Either become a duck and let the water roll off his back (it's just playground noise anyway), or find a job with a better culture. If he's so uncomfortable hanging out with these guys, then set an arbitrary amount of time for it to change, and if it doesn't, at least take a serious look at other jobs. Sometimes even just going to an interview or two can get a good employer to take notice.

I had a job that I hated a few years ago, but the money was good. There was a development project that I weaseled in on and enjoyed, but they would not promote me to a developer and I kept having to do shift work. I set a limit of 6 months to either get the promotion or else go packing. I didn't get the promotion, I took a pay cut to get a job at a university which had better benefits, better vacation, and a much better culture. My health improved, a relationship healed (thankfully), and I'm much happier.

Good luck!

[KaraBoo]

Difficult situation.

One thing I do when I'm out with people who get a little pushy about drinking and how much everyone is drinking, etc, is that I order a drink with ice. Something like a mojito. That way, I play with the straw, sip a bit, let the ice melt thereby watering down the drink...I don't order a refill each time they do but if it's a large group, they may not notice. Not that I really care but it sort of avoids the issue of being hassled to drink as much as they do.

I know this is sneaky and doesn't really solve the problem but it's something he can do while thinking about a better solution.

also, did he tell them his family has a history of alcoholism?

[EarthMamaToBe]

I don't think he has told them because he hates to "rock the boat"

Trying to drink slowly usually results in one of them ordering him another drink. These people are pushy like teenagers. Actually I NEVER experienced this level of peer pressure as a teen or college student.

DH has talked to several other business people we know and they all say that you "have" to be able to drink in the business world. I just don't by that. It's not like they are discussing business and I would THINK they would not want their customers to see them wasted and acting like high school kids.

[sunshine1793]

My husband would be looking for another job, hopefully same field but absolutely a different company *as soon as possible*. He and I would not tolerate that kind of risk to our marriage and children, especially with that kind of family history. Not that it is an immediate risk at all, but having to fight against that influence long term? No way. I shudder to think of our future and happiness being lost because of jerks and alcohol, and it breaks my heart to hear of other families being torn apart likewise. That is one cliff we are not walking alongside. DH has resigned one job due to safety reasons and the stress it was causing him and I, and another for health reasons and poor management. It is one of our core values and boundaries, that our marriage, our health, and our family take priority.

[Cheshire]

Momma answering here - he can find a job that he loves in an atmosphere that supports the same values he supports.

The situation you describe is toxic. You don't have to put up with drinking in the business world - at least not what I've seen in my career or DH's career.

If I were him I would not mention the alcoholism. You said the peer pressure is great and if they are that immature they might see it as a challenge. Normal people would respect him just saying 1 beer is enough for me. People who don't respect that will not respect family/genetic history.

It would be so worth him finding another job where he doesn't have to deal with that kind of pressure and guilt.

[TexasTomboy]

EMTB,

are these co-workers British?

[plunky]

This was a months old thread that someone performed necromancy on yesterday.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by EarthMamaToBe

DH has talked to several other business people we know and they all say that you "have" to be able to drink in the business world. I just don't buy that.

Me neither. DH works at a financial services company and he is a tee-totalist. Not a drop of alcohol for him, ever. And in about two years that he's worked there he's been promoted several times. Several of his coworkers (though not all) are also married and some have kids, so everyone there definitely understands the not-partying-like-a-frat-boy thing. Instead, they often organize team outings like paintball and rock climbing and so forth (DH often organizes these "healthy" outings!) Sometimes they go to bars, too, and DH will go sometimes, too, but there's never any pressure to drink alcohol or stay out into the wee hours. I think your DH needs to find a job with a more wholesome office culture. Of course, it stinks to be job-hunting right now. So, any updates since September?

[PGTlatte]

When I was a fresh-out-of-college female engineer in an oil refinery, in Texas, working in a group of young male engineers, the "it" thing was Fantasy Football. They spent so MUCH time at work talking about it. And every Sunday all of them together, all day long, watching football games on four different TVs while drinking. Then Monday at work......was a waste !!! Because all they did all freaking day was calculate their scores and talk about their team players and the actual games !!! I could not believe how they were allowed to get away with this crap, doing all that on company time. To make it worse, our boss was a woman, who very much wanted to fit in and be accepted by these young guys. I still don't get why !!! So she did it right along with them. And, I was told by her that it would be helpful to me at work to go along with it too.

I refused. I don't like football, and I hate listening to men talk about it. And talk and talk and talk. It turns them into such....oh never mind...don't wanna be mean...just say I'm not impressed. So I just kept to myself and said no.

It only hurt me there as long as I was under that boss and in that group of guys. Once I got out from under her in a couple years, with a different boss and in a different department, my perceived "job performance" was "much improved", and I was recognized and promoted very quickly. And I learned then that the rest of the organization did not look kindly on the unprofessional time-wasting behavior of that group. They noticed what was going on and who was doing it. And all along, it had been noticed by managers outside of the group that I did not take part in it. Which ultimately helped me get noticed and promoted out of the group.

If he thinks the company is worth it, he can stick it out. But he should not lower his standards to participate in something that goes against his values and feels like a waste of time for him. The truth is, these misplaced frat boys are probably very threatened by him. Maybe he can find some other common ground on which to bond with them individually while at the office so they don't hold it against him that he chooses not to participate in the drinking parties...so they will see him as "human" even though he sticks to his own values.

I guess what I finally mean to say is, it can be really tough not to fit in at work. But it's not worth violating your own values to fit in. By sticking to your own standards, it either benefits you at that job in the long term, or ultimately helps get you out of there and into a better place.

[cicatrix]

i'd take a good close look at who is saying 'drink to succeed' - I've never ever seen it work further than middle management. Ever. It hits the performance wall.

[kangaroomum25]

48 Days To The Work You Love