What would you do if CPS showed up at your door? - Page 3

[Lillian J]

CPS - Articles from a homeschooling attorney

Here are some helpful articles done by an attorney who was a homeschooler and worked on the board and the legal team of HSC, The HomeSchool Assn. of CA:

Contact by CPS

How Can Homeschoolers Avoid Truancy Officers or Children's Protection Service?

Responding to a Visit from Children's Protective Services

Protecting Ourselves from Truancy and CPS Investigations: Avoiding Referrals

Children's Protective Services, Educational Neglect and Homeschooling

[captain crunchy]

I dunno what I would do. On one hand, I don't know what they could or would possibly see or think. I mean, there is nothing in our home that I think could even be lied about as being neglectful or dangerous. I was worried when we coslept before dd had her own room -- she still cosleeps but her room looks real nice and mainstream like , so that isn't a worry. I worried about the fact that we are vegetarians but it is clear she is healthy and thriving.

I live in a state where children get actually lost in the system for years and where I think the last thing social workers want to do is remove a child because the system is so taxed. I also have a best friend who was a deputy sheriff for 8 years and reassures me all the time of what she had to frequently walk into where the kids weren't even removed and in her opinion, they should have been (like needles lying around and roaches crawling all over piles of trash ), but where the judge declined to order removal.

I know people have had terrible experiences, I realize that and I am not dismissing that -- but I think I would probably react like mammal_mama did -- or just not answer the door (pretend I wasn't home) and contact them on my terms after seeking legal advice.

One thing I do need to do though for my comfort level is to get dd's vax exemption (very easy to obtain here, I have just procrastinated).

I also acknowledge that I have white, hetero, married, Christian, middle class privledge and that I have the luxury of feeling safer than some

[AngelBee]

:

[JamesMama]

First of all they wouldn't be allowed to peek past the threshold without a warrent. If need be I would SHOW them my children to prove that they are healthy and (mostly) injury free. I would advise them that I would be more than willing to cooperate with them provided they go through the proper legal channels to make sure everything is on the up and up and neither one of us are signing our rights away

Then when they left I would call a lawyer, call as many friends as I could wrangle up and clean my house spotless, beg borrow or steal a bed for the kids bedroom (we cosleep, they don't have a bed) figure out how to put together my crib and make d@mn sure every i was dotted and t crossed.

Then if need be I would get as much info as possible to prove that YES my son is leaning on track with or ahead of his peers and go from there...

I thing through this WAY too often, my IL's are 100% opposed to our parenting choices home/un schooling is top of the list

[Mimi]

for EXACTLY that reason my home is ALWAYS tidy. i clean things up immediately, my kids bath a lot ( they love it, though) , just in case anyone shows up there is absolutely nothing they can do. I moved here from germany, so i always think people must think " a foreigner! she must be beating her children & live in filth!" so if there was someone at the door i'd get a lawyer, fil, bil & dh home. i prefer having men home in that sort of situation, oldfashioned, but they tend to get more respect over here anyway. (i'm in the uk).
<3

[cottonwood]

My plan: smile unthreateningly, look apologetic, and say, "I know you're just doing your job so please believe me that this is not personal, but it would be irresponsible of me as my children's mother to trust a total stranger to make decisions about them, so I need to have some protective safeguards in place before you do the investigation. What that means is that I need to have witnesses here while it's taking place, including a lawyer, and it will be videotaped. Please let me know when it would be convenient for you to come back. Meanwhile, let me get my children so that you can see that they're all right."

I know someone who's an investigator for CPS, and he's fantastic, very aware of the difference between alternative lifestyles and abuse. But in a county near us there's an investigator who I've heard has come down very hard on people who are a lot like us -- extended breastfeeding, co-sleeping, unschooling, non-vaccing, don't do doctor visits unless we're sick, unassisted birth, that sort of thing. I don't know anything about CPS in our county, but it's a very conservative area so it makes me nervous. It's really hard to believe that an investigator would try to make a case on those things, but add in something like an injury and I fear bias against those things could be a very effective fuel for suspicion of abuse.

[applejuice]

My plan: smile unthreateningly, look apologetic, and say, "I know you're just doing your job so please believe me that this is not personal, but it would be irresponsible of me as my children's mother to trust a total stranger to make decisions about them, so I need to have some protective safeguards in place before you do the investigation. What that means is that I need to have witnesses here while it's taking place, including a lawyer, and it will be videotaped. Please let me know when it would be convenient for you to come back. Meanwhile, let me get my children so that you can see that they're all right."

I did that for a friend, I came as a witness to her inspection with a videocamera, and I was told to turn it off and she took the children outside and told me to get lost. It was my friends house, so I did not make a fuss. It would be up to the mother to enforce her parameters and rules. Maybe a few tough looking relatives to back up the mama would help.

I had my GSD : with me at the door last time cps came calling. She did not come back.

[sarah0404]

It happened to me. My dh answered the door and let them in : If I'd answered I'd have asked them what they were calling for and then told them to come back at a more suitable time. A time where we weren't still in our pyjammas at 3pm!

A "concerned neighbour" called saying that they hadn't seen me or the children out much recently. Which was a load of rubbish IMO - what they actually meant was "they don't send their kids to school." It was about 2 weeks after the schools went back after the summer, so they'd waited to see if we sent them to school then made the call to social services when they saw that we hadn't.

The two social workers had done some background checks on us because they knew that the children weren't registered at a local school, and that they hadn't had any vaccinations. They asked me why we'd chosen not to vaccinate and I couldn't think of a decent answer. Its been 8 years since I last researched vaccination! I couldn't seem to pull up any facts or figures from the depths of my brain. I just mumbled somethng about the side effects. Then they asked me about their education and what sort of things we did, if we had a timetable or some sort of curriculum to follow, and I didn't really feel like I answered that very confidently either. It's not their job to assess our education provision anyway. (at least not here in Scotland - its the education authorities job, not a social service issue) They seemed satisfied, so said the case was closed and left.

I really felt like I'd let my family down though. I wished that I could have confidently answered their questions - like this is what we do and we're proud of it. (And we're also doing nothing wrong or illegal.) So I'd advise making sure that you have some prepared answers for any questions that might be asked. I've got some answers prepped now cause I expect another visit at some point. The nosey neighbours don't get to know the outcome of the investigation, so they might feel the need to call again.

I had thought that if something like this happened I wouldn't let them in, meet on some neutral ground or something, doccument and record stuff etc, but I was completely caught off gaurd (my house was pretty much a bombsite too). It worked out fine though. I feel like it might have gone badly if I'd been hostile - well more hostile anyway! I think I sounded pretty angry when they were talking to me, and dh was kind of standing over them in a threatening manner, but I think they'd probably have been suspicious and investigated us more thoroughly if dh hadn't just let them in. (they didn't even ask to see my baby who was sleeping upstairs at the time.)

[LovingMyBabies]

Luckily we don't live in a house so they'd have to find us first () But I wouldn't even begin to talk to them with out some sort of warrant.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds

My plan: smile unthreateningly, look apologetic, and say, "I know you're just doing your job so please believe me that this is not personal, but it would be irresponsible of me as my children's mother to trust a total stranger to make decisions about them, so I need to have some protective safeguards in place before you do the investigation. What that means is that I need to have witnesses here while it's taking place, including a lawyer, and it will be videotaped. Please let me know when it would be convenient for you to come back. Meanwhile, let me get my children so that you can see that they're all right."

What an excellent idea! I think this is exactly what I'll do if they ever knock on my door again.

Sarah, I'm glad everything went okay. I don't know what the vax laws are like in Scotland, but where I live (Missouri, USA), I've learned that you can get a religious exemption without even having to specify your religion. We've never bothered to get the card, since like you we homeschool, but now whenever we see a new medical person for one of our girls, when they ask the vax question, I just say --

"We don't vaccinate." If they ask why (sometimes they do, but not always), I say, "Religious exepmtion."

We saw a new doctor for my youngest the other day, and she actually followed up by asking our religion, and I just said, "I know I don't have to answer that, and it's personal." And she dropped it.

Yeah, since we've already had a CPS visit (because of toxic relatives who don't like our homeschooling), I felt a little scared that the doctor might find my refusal to discuss my religion "snarky" or something, and look for some reason to report us --

I've just learned that in "discussions" of why we don't vax, the doctors always come off as more knowledgeable than me, and I can't really "win" or be respected in such a discussion, so it's better to say as little as possible.

So even though I was kind of scared to refuse to answer a question, for all I know it could have gone even worse if I'd told her we were Christian, and, no, we're not part of any sect that prohibits vaccination, we just don't believe in it, yada-yada.

So, overall, I just find it safer to refuse to discuss it. And I think even if you're well-versed in all the scientific reasons for not vaxing, it's probably better to just refuse to engage in the first place.