Angry at someone for ff'ing - Page 2

[mamameg]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

I don't want to offend anyone but remember that surgical birth or formula might be normal but not natural, since we are in a natural mothering website I just wanted to point that out... (gently )

I'm pretty sure we are all aware of that. Let's also remember that this thread is about dealing with the anger we sometimes feel about other people's choices, regardless of where those choices fall on the scale of normal or natural. Feeling strongly about breastfeeding is great. Alienating friends and loved ones due to anger about ff'ing... not so great.

[justthinkn]

Originally Posted by ErikaG

I remind myself that as parents, we're all trying to make the decisions that are best for our families and that someone else's "best" isn't necessarily the same as mine. I remind myself that I shouldn't be judging others parenting choices because I don't like it when mine are criticized. I remind myself this is an opportunity to teach my daughter about respecting the choices of others even when they're different from ours and when we may not think they're the best choice. And I remind myself of how painful it is to feel like I'm being judged by people who I care about, and whose opinions matter when my daughter takes a bottle instead of nursing-I'm a low supply/IGT Mom.

Another "Here! Here!" to this! And I don't think it even has to be medical issues like IGT... Isn't the statistic that 1 out of 3 women have been sexually abused at some point in their lives? And this affects many women's feelings about all aspects of physicality and intimacy, including nursing. Then too, nursing does or doesn't happen in a social context - in other words, women need and often don't get support - it's not just an individual decision. If even one piece of my support system had been missing, I don't know if I would have nursed beyond a month or two...

I'm just saying that I don't know, nor do I have the right to ask and judge, the potentially intimate and complex reasons some women may choose not to breastfeed.

[hrsmom]

(deleted)

[MommyJoia]

OP, I know exactly where you're coming from, but honestly, you have to let it go... When I have friends that are PG, I give them tons of info on breastfeeding the promom's 101 reasons to breastfeed, I tell them how important it is to seek out support, I give them my cell # (if they don't already have it) and tell them they can call me 24/7 for help or advice. Once the baby is born, I offer to help, If they tell me they are FF, I back off. I don't lecture or anything like that, I just say, "OK" and leave it alone. That's all you can do. just let it go. It may break your heart, but it's not your kid. Your friend knows how you feel about breastfeeding and it's just not that important to them.

[samanthamommaof3]

this is a great article :)

<a href="http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3LmVob3cuY29tL2hvd180NTEzMjM3X3doZX RoZXItYnJlYXN0ZmVlZC1ib3R0bGVmZWVkLW5ldy1iYWJ5Lmh0 bWw=">How to Decide Whether To Breastfeed Or Bottlefeed Your New Baby</a>

let her read that and then make her choice. if she cares for her child she should be informed. about this or any other choice she makes

hth.

[Peony]

It can be hard, but you just have to let it go. I understand when we want to help so much, but they are not interested. You just have to remember that we never know really what someone else is going through.

[annettemarie]

I'm going to move this to personal growth, since it's less about breastfeeding and more about dealing with our feelings when people make decisions we don't necessarily agree with.

[trancechylde]

I'm seeing my little cousin going through some major chemo treatments due to leukemia, and I always wonder if the mother would've breastfed him this would not be happening... I think of that friend's child who is suffering from many allergies, asthma and other illnesses, if she would've breastfed him at all, probably he would not be suffering from any of that...

:

wow.

Breastfeeding is wonderful. The "perfect" and natural way to feed our children, certainly it has many many many health benefits, but it's surely not a cure-all for diseases such as cancer etc.

I found this statement kind of... I don't know what...but I'm very glad you didn't say it to the Mother.
I kind of got angry/hurt by it reading it myself (and I DO breastfeed!)

[pookel]

I always assume someone who "just doesn't want to" breasstfeed is a sexual abuse survivor, and it's not my place to criticize her decision. I'm sure many ff'ing moms are not, but plenty of them are, so I just go with that and it helps me remember not to judge.

[Cherry Alive]

The thing about FFing is it's a very personal choice. Women can struggle with it for a large variety of reasons—a few of which are reasons that they can't tell others about (ex- being sexually abused).

And you know what? There's far worse parenting choices someone can make than choosing to FF their babies. There are lots of horrible things that happen to babies and little children that deserve my anger and judgement way more than good friends/family who simply make non-NFL choices.

On the other end, I've met people who FF'd who did a spectacular job at raising their kids. While I firmly believe BFing (even extended BFing) is the healthiest nutritional choice for a baby, there's so much more to being a good parent.

[Smokering]

wow.

Breastfeeding is wonderful. The "perfect" and natural way to feed our children, certainly it has many many many health benefits, but it's surely not a cure-all for diseases such as cancer etc.

I found this statement kind of... I don't know what...but I'm very glad you didn't say it to the Mother.
I kind of got angry/hurt by it reading it myself (and I DO breastfeed!)

I think I can see where she's coming from on this. The fact is that breastfeeding does reduce the risk for certain childhood diseases (including cancers and allergies); or, to look at it the other way, formula feeding increases the risk for those diseases. Which means that there are children out there dying of cancer/suffering from allergies, who wouldn't be if their mothers had chosen to breastfeed. It certainly does not mean that you can pinpoint which cases are caused by what, or that you should lay a massive guilt trip on a mother who's undergoing the horrific experience of a severely ill child. But yes, children are dying unnecessarily, and that is something to get angry about.

I don't actually know any formula-feeding mothers IRL (which is weird, come to think of it!), so this doesn't hit me on such a personal level, but unnecessary formula feeding in the general sense does make me angry. And I think it should. But it isn't all about the mothers--given a culture that denigrates breastfeeding, medical personnel who are apathetic or misinformed, myths which have not been combated by education, a system which makes formula freely available and aggressively marketed, insufficient systems in place to help with lactation problems, milk banks etc... and so on and so on... anger can and should be directed productively at the whole broken system. I'm sure I'd get very frustrated with someone who refused to acknowledge the benefits of BFing, but given the way the system is skewed I can see why lactivists are considered kinda freaky. The information simply isn't 'out there' enough to back us up automatically; the facts are there for those who want to find them, but it's not like the average joe on the street will go 'Oh yeah, breastfeeding reduces the risk of uterine cancer for the mother'. A mother will likely hear hundreds of voices saying 'Oh yes, they say breastfeeding is better, but mine turned out fine' for every lactivist voice; a flood of misinformation so overwhelming that dry land looks like the oddity.

Which may not have been very helpful or coherent, 'cause it's late and I'm rambling. Anyway it's an interesting topic!

[MommyJoia]

Originally Posted by robertandenith

I'm seeing my little cousin going through some major chemo treatments due to leukemia, and I always wonder if the mother would've breastfed him this would not be happening... I think of that friend's child who is suffering from many allergies, asthma and other illnesses, if she would've breastfed him at all, probably he would not be suffering from any of that... I know what you mean but we can only control our lives and that's so frustrating... at least you tried

I am sure you are not probably worrying about her life but the baby's, which is how I always feel...

Originally Posted by trancechylde

:

wow.

Breastfeeding is wonderful. The "perfect" and natural way to feed our children, certainly it has many many many health benefits, but it's surely not a cure-all for diseases such as cancer etc.

I found this statement kind of... I don't know what...but I'm very glad you didn't say it to the Mother.
I kind of got angry/hurt by it reading it myself (and I DO breastfeed!)

This is ironic. We have a 'friend' who adamantly FFs, Her mother is a breast cancer survivor, and she herself has had things removed from her uterus and ovaries. I had DD#1 a year (to the day )before she had DS. She was always supportive of my BF. Her DH thought it was disgusting. For the months prior to DS being born, I sent her tons of info on BF. She registered for one pump. I told her the medela was better (she returned the pump and didn't register for another.) When the baby was born, she had some hemorrhaging and was put on some kind of medication that supposedly a nurse told her she couldn't breastfeed on. (I'm not sure I believe that one). Anyway, the baby was jaundice and her mom told me that they couldn't have breastfed anyway because of the jaundice. Everyone felt the need to tell me "why" she couldn't. I just smiled and said, "it's not for everyone" and let it go. It absolutely infuriated me. She paid at least 50$ extra to have a breast cancer license plate on her car. She participates in the breast cancer run every year, but she didn't take the easiest and simplest way to reduce her risk of breast cancer. So whatever, I had to let it go. Her DH and my DH are the 'friends'... Very soon after the birth, we started getting phone calls asking for advice. DS had terrible reflux, and eventually went on the super expensive formula that you have to order online and had rice cereal in the bottle. he was also on prevecid (sp?). My DH's patience ran out long before mine did and every time her DH would ask for advice or complain my DH would say, "you know you wouldn't be having all these problems and paying $30 a can of formula if you just BFed". Their DS spent many a night in the ER for various problems of diarrhea, sinus infections, bronchitis, etc. I think we counted 12 times in the ER in the first 12 months (that we know of). Every time my DH would see him the next day, her DH would ask, "did your DD ever have this problem?" and my DH would reply, "no, my wife BFs"

So their DS continued and still continues to frequent the ER for whatever ailments BF is supposed to protect babies from.

Apparently her DH's patience ran out as well and when they had DD (a year to the day after my DD#2) my husband went to visit her in the hospital. (she had a c-section because she didn't learn from her mistakes with DS). When they brought the baby to her, and asked if she wanted to try Breastfeeding her DH said yes, but she said no. "he said, but doesn't breastfeeding protect babies from all the crap we went through with DS?" She said it could, but it's not 100% (which it's not), so she's not going to try because she wants to go back on her bi-polar medication and she doesn't know if it's safe for the baby. He tried to get her to try, but she refused. It's nice to know that my DH got to the man that once told my DH that my NIP at a restaurant was so disgusting that it made him lose his apatite (and I was discreet)

So, I now, just keep my mouth shut. If she asks me any questions, I either say, "I don't know, you have to ask your DR, FF babies and BF babies have different needs" Or, "I didn't have that problem, BF babies don't do/have that"

but at first it really bothered me, especially with her family history. My husband thinks she's the most selfish person on the planet. I think he was more angry than I was.

[robertandenith]

wow MommyJoia it makes me think that I am not that crazy to have those thoughts after all, thanks for sharing your story but at the same time I feel sad for those babies. Your hubby is awesome!

[partymoo]

.

[siobhang]

Originally Posted by partymoo

If I found myself that angry over someone else's personal decisions (that don't even effect me), I hope I'd take a minute to wonder where I'm getting the idea that it's any of my business in the first place. Surely the time and energy I was devoting to that would be better spent seeing to my own business, which really does need all the attention I can give it.

ITA.

I get lots angry at doctors and others who are meant to be supportive. And angry about advertising and subliminal and not so subliminal messages about bottles being normal.

But when I start getting angry about someone else's personal choices - even when I adamantly disagree with those choices - I have to stop myself and ask "Why does this matter so much to me personally?"

Not agreeing with someone else's choices - sure, we do that every day, from how someone decides to spend their free time to their money to their parenting decisions. We look at how other people make decisions, compare them with our own, and make judgments. Normal part of human nature, actually.

But when we bring anger into it - that, in my experience, involves a level of personal investment in someone else's choice. I find that the times I am angry it is because I do believe the choice impacts me or my family/loved ones in some way.

And then I have to unpack the entire context. What baggage am I bringing to this that I need to unload? Do I feel like my "right decisions" need to be validated by everyone? Certain people? Is someone else making a different choice making me question my decisions? Is it violating core beliefs I have about the way "good people" or "people like us" operate?

I am wary of anger - anger can be very very useful at spurring us to action when injustice occurs or when people need to be defended. But anger is often displaced - we can sometimes feel anger at a safe bystander because being angry with ourselves or our family or authority figures is more dangerous. Anger, especially by women, is often rarely about the surface issue, and often has a root cause, sometimes deeply buried.

These occasions are useful moments to try to unbury the cause of the anger - because I think it helps us grow as people.

I also think that a core ethical value is the default assumption that people are trying their best. They screw up, they make decisions they may later regret, and they learn and grow, as we all do. But all humans deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

My 2 cents.

[LotusBirthMama]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

This is ironic. We have a 'friend' who adamantly FFs, Her mother is a breast cancer survivor, and she herself has had things removed from her uterus and ovaries. )before she had DS. She was always supportive of my BF. I had DD#1 a year (to the day Her DH thought it was disgusting. For the months prior to DS being born, I sent her tons of info on BF. She registered for one pump. I told her the medela was better (she returned the pump and didn't register for another.) When the baby was born, she had some hemorrhaging and was put on some kind of medication that supposedly a nurse told her she couldn't breastfeed on. (I'm not sure I believe that one). Anyway, the baby was jaundice and her mom told me that they couldn't have breastfed anyway because of the jaundice. Everyone felt the need to tell me "why" she couldn't. I just smiled and said, "it's not for everyone" and let it go. It absolutely infuriated me. She paid at least 50$ extra to have a breast cancer license plate on her car. She participates in the breast cancer run every year, but she didn't take the easiest and simplest way to reduce her risk of breast cancer. So whatever, I had to let it go. Her DH and my DH are the 'friends'... Very soon after the birth, we started getting phone calls asking for advice. DS had terrible reflux, and eventually went on the super expensive formula that you have to order online and had rice cereal in the bottle. he was also on prevecid (sp?). My DH's patience ran out long before mine did and every time her DH would ask for advice or complain my DH would say, "you know you wouldn't be having all these problems and paying $30 a can of formula if you just BFed". Their DS spent many a night in the ER for various problems of diarrhea, sinus infections, bronchitis, etc. I think we counted 12 times in the ER in the first 12 months (that we know of). Every time my DH would see him the next day, her DH would ask, "did your DD ever have this problem?" and my DH would reply, "no, my wife BFs"
So their DS continued and still continues to frequent the ER for whatever ailments BF is supposed to protect babies from.

Apparently her DH's patience ran out as well and when they had DD (a year to the day after my DD#2) my husband went to visit her in the hospital. (she had a c-section because she didn't learn from her mistakes with DS). When they brought the baby to her, and asked if she wanted to try Breastfeeding her DH said yes, but she said no. "he said, but doesn't breastfeeding protect babies from all the crap we went through with DS?" She said it could, but it's not 100% (which it's not), so she's not going to try because she wants to go back on her bi-polar medication and she doesn't know if it's safe for the baby. He tried to get her to try, but she refused. It's nice to know that my DH got to the man that once told my DH that my NIP at a restaurant was so disgusting that it made him lose his apatite (and I was discreet)

So, I now, just keep my mouth shut. If she asks me any questions, I either say, "I don't know, you have to ask your DR, FF babies and BF babies have different needs" Or, "I didn't have that problem, BF babies don't do/have that"

but at first it really bothered me, especially with her family history. My husband thinks she's the most selfish person on the planet. I think he was more angry than I was.

Wow. And you are friends with this woman? I'd hate to think what you say about your enemies....
And whats up with the angry faces regarding when your kids were born?

[Melaine]

Originally Posted by jennifer_lc1

I hope you never express that thought to the mother. It's extremely unfounded, first of all, and secondly very insensitive. So everyone who has had an illness should've been breastfed and they would've not gotten sick? What about all the people that have gotten illness and were breastfed?

And it's crappy to say it's because some moms are lazy.. that may be the case w/ your friend but I know a lot of moms where laziness certainly is not the reason(s).

Again, we shouldn't judge another mother unless they do something to *hurt* the child. What happened to sticking up for each other?

Gah.

100% right....I was EBF and still had quite a few health issues (and still do) though I certainly believe that BF is the best choice. To suggest that FF leads to such serious illness or that BF for just a little while could prevent it is ridiculous.

[segata]

OK,maybe angry was the wrong word.I just feel like there's a better option.Who knows her reasons for not,really but for the baby,I wish she would have at least tried.

[MommyJoia]

Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama

Wow. And you are friends with this woman? I'd hate to think what you say about your enemies....
And whats up with the angry faces regarding when your kids were born?

I don't exactly hang out with her, I've invited her into my mommy group but quite frankly she's a little racist against non-hispanics. the angry faces are over the fact that twice, her kids now share birthdays with my kids. At first I thought it would be cool, maybe we could share birthday parties or something, but she said that would be "ghetto"... it just stole my kids' thunder, ya know?

She induced, by her own choice, both times so you can't say "you can't blame nature" because nature had nothing to do with it. She was induced and gave birth on my kids' birthdays by her own choice. her DS was 1 week early and hr DD was 2 weeks early, but both on my kids' birthdays.

[Cherry Alive]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

She said it could, but it's not 100% (which it's not), so she's not going to try because she wants to go back on her bi-polar medication and she doesn't know if it's safe for the baby.

I was with you until I read this part. Because I was raised by a bipolar father who never bothered to get any treatment and was abusive, I think your friend is very brave and responsible to be looking out for her mental health. Her not taking her meds is more dangerous to her kids (not to mention herself and her husband) than FFing.

I also think it is very reasonable of her to be concerned about how her medication would effect her baby. There are very few studies on that kind of thing, and I can't blame her for not wanting to risk it.

And while her first child may have had a much easier time with his stomach problems if he BF'd, you don't know that for sure. It's not cool to lay guilt trips on parents over a sick child.

Besides, life isn't so black and white, is it?

I had severe colic as a baby and was BF'd (and—yes—my mother tried to change her diet—it wasn't food allergies).

My sister had to be FF, because my mom was sick (Poly Vera - a rare leukemia-like blood disease). While my sister did have more childhood illnesses than me (mostly issues with strep, the flu, and being super allergic to poison ivy), she didn't have all digestive problems I did. Today she is a very healthy, beautiful woman now who breastfeeds her own son.

Originally Posted by segata

OK,maybe angry was the wrong word.I just feel like there's a better option.Who knows her reasons for not,really but for the baby,I wish she would have at least tried.

Maybe it was better for the baby she didn't. You don't necessarily know the whole story. It's always possible her breastmilk made the baby sick if she was taking medications or is sick herself. If she had a mental illness—like MommyJoia's friend, it's better she's on her meds and FFing than potentially putting her baby in danger. And even if it's totally a personal choice, that's okay. Let her come to you with questions (instead of pushing your views on her), and she'll be more likely to want to BF later—and you'll be the person she comes to.


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Here is an interesting story I got from a friend. I try to remember it when I get angry at people for doing things I don't agree with:

http://www.rickwalton.com/folktale/bryant21.htm