Angry at someone for ff'ing - Page 3

[trancechylde]

To suggest that FF leads to such serious illness or that BF for just a little while could prevent it is ridiculous.

Firstly; :

Like I said. We all agree how wonderful and beneficial breastfeeding is, but let's not get carried away. I'm not a doctor or anything, but I highly doubt that this child's leukemia would have been prevented by breastfeeding.

wow MommyJoia it makes me think that I am not that crazy to have those thoughts after all,

I hope I didn't come across that way (insinuating you were crazy!), I guess I was just shocked that this thought would even enter someone's mind in the midst of a serious family illness.

If I had been the mother in that situation and knew that people were judging me like that (especially family) I would have been devastated.

I guess I just don't understand why people get "angry" with other people for doing things differently to them.

And you know what I've noticed?It's normally the more "crunchy" "free spirited" people I know IRL and on the internet that are the first to place judegment

Most of the "mainstream" people I know are alot more open to people (me) parenting differently; "Oh wow! you're still breastfeeding? Cool!...He sleeps in your bed?? That must be nice for him!....he's not eating solids yet? Can you tell me more about why? etc etc?"

Rather than "oh my GOD she's giving that baby formula/using sposies...putting him in a CRIB!! eek." etc etc.

I'm NOT talking about anyone here or anyone in specific actually, it's just something I've been noticing lately.

Motherhood is hard, testing, trial-and-error sometimes. I'm learing new things about myself every day.
I wish Mamas could just be more supportive of eachother- there's so much joy and common ground in this too!
Like my siggy says........

[jennifer_lc1]

Originally Posted by trancechylde

And you know what I've noticed?(and I'm probably going to get so flamed for this)
It's normally the more "crunchy" "free spirited" people I know IRL and on the internet that are the first to place judegment

ITA!!

[MilkTrance]

I DO get angry, but I try and keep it to myself. It's okay to have feelings like that, but it's not okay to express them IRL and hurt people by doing so.

[MilkTrance]

Originally Posted by Red Fern

Why are you so "worried" about "her life".

Maybe your need to dig deeper within "yourself" as to "why this bothers you"

I can't speak for the OP but for myself, I care because I love my baby soooo much I just cannot imagine making the decision not to BF.

Also I was a very sickly child and I am doing my best to avoid that for my child.

Is that "deep enough" within myself?

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by siobhang

ITA.

I get lots angry at doctors and others who are meant to be supportive. And angry about advertising and subliminal and not so subliminal messages about bottles being normal.

But when I start getting angry about someone else's personal choices - even when I adamantly disagree with those choices - I have to stop myself and ask "Why does this matter so much to me personally?"

Not agreeing with someone else's choices - sure, we do that every day, from how someone decides to spend their free time to their money to their parenting decisions. We look at how other people make decisions, compare them with our own, and make judgments. Normal part of human nature, actually.

But when we bring anger into it - that, in my experience, involves a level of personal investment in someone else's choice. I find that the times I am angry it is because I do believe the choice impacts me or my family/loved ones in some way.

And then I have to unpack the entire context. What baggage am I bringing to this that I need to unload? Do I feel like my "right decisions" need to be validated by everyone? Certain people? Is someone else making a different choice making me question my decisions? Is it violating core beliefs I have about the way "good people" or "people like us" operate?

I am wary of anger - anger can be very very useful at spurring us to action when injustice occurs or when people need to be defended. But anger is often displaced - we can sometimes feel anger at a safe bystander because being angry with ourselves or our family or authority figures is more dangerous. Anger, especially by women, is often rarely about the surface issue, and often has a root cause, sometimes deeply buried.

These occasions are useful moments to try to unbury the cause of the anger - because I think it helps us grow as people.

I also think that a core ethical value is the default assumption that people are trying their best. They screw up, they make decisions they may later regret, and they learn and grow, as we all do. But all humans deserve the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

My 2 cents.

great post.

it's something i've discovered in my own life. at the moment I'm getting very annoyed with a good friend for a variety of reasons. probably he *is* going through an annoying stage due to a lot of issues in his own life. But my extreme irritation, annoyance and, yes, *anger* at him and his choices is all about me.

I'm in my own funk with a lot of stress and uncertainty in my life. Things are in flux at the moment and all i can do is ride it out and see where life will lead me. I accept that, but it makes me uncomfortable. Hence, I'm displacing a lot of anxiety onto someone else.

Basically, what I know is that when I start getting really angry at friends and family, it is usually about me, not them. (not to say I don't have reason to be angry or I should always "blame" myself, but usually they are just being who they always are and something is going on with me).

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by LotusBirthMama

Wow. And you are friends with this woman? I'd hate to think what you say about your enemies....

not to be snide, but I wondered that, as well.

[DariusMom]

Originally Posted by trancechylde

Like I said. We all agree how wonderful and beneficial breastfeeding is, but let's not get carried away. I'm not a doctor or anything, but I highly doubt that this child's leukemia would have been prevented by breastfeeding.

exactly.

[Cutie Patootie]

Originally Posted by Red Fern

Why are you so "worried" about "her life".

Maybe your need to dig deeper within "yourself" as to "why this bothers you"

Why shouldn't she worry? Just because it's not our baby, we should not have any emotional feeling towards it. Babies are supposed to be breastfed. 200 years ago, it wasn't a choice. You breastfed your baby...someone else breastfed your baby or they died, unless you had a good goat out in the back. Which I am sure didn't happen that much. There is no "digging deeper" to it. Human milk is for human babies. Nature made it that way. It's not a feeling, it what's right and it's down right bothersome to me regardless of why a woman isn't bf'ing. It doesn't mean I judge those mothers, who in rare circumstances, sadly cannot breastfeed their baby, but my heart still hurts for the baby because he/she is not getting the great, awesome and never ending benefits of breast milk that is their right as a human.

[MommyJoia]

Originally Posted by Red_Lil_Mamma

I was with you until I read this part. Because I was raised by a bipolar father who never bothered to get any treatment and was abusive, I think your friend is very brave and responsible to be looking out for her mental health. Her not taking her meds is more dangerous to her kids (not to mention herself and her husband) than FFing.

I also think it is very reasonable of her to be concerned about how her medication would effect her baby. There are very few studies on that kind of thing, and I can't blame her for not wanting to risk it.

And while her first child may have had a much easier time with his stomach problems if he BF'd, you don't know that for sure. It's not cool to lay guilt trips on parents over a sick child.

Besides, life isn't so black and white, is it?

I had severe colic as a baby and was BF'd (and—yes—my mother tried to change her diet—it wasn't food allergies).

My DD had sever colic and they actually called it reflux. I changed my diet and basically nothing helped until she was on solids at 7 months. It is possible that the vaccines had something to do with that too. I have a ton of theories on vaccines. I have not vaxed DD#2. I did not put her on medication because I have had peptic ulcers since I was 11 and I didn't want my child to be on medication for ever. But, even with all that, we never went to the er for the vomiting and she never had diarrhea. Formula has been known to cause deaths to children around the world from sever dehydration caused by diarrhea. There is no doubt in my mind that while her DS still may have had the reflux, her wouldn't have spent so many nights in the er if he was breastfed.

I'm no LC, but I'm sure there are plenty of medications that a bi-polar person can take that are safe for breastfeeding. There are lots of medications that molecularly are too big to pass through the breastmilk. Not to mention the fact that she had none of these medications in the hospital and she could have nursed her baby (DD) in those first few days, in the hospital, giving her baby colostrum, before she even made an appointment with her shrink to get her bi-polar medication prescription. she just truly did not want to. She told my husband after the birth of her son that she didn't BF because she wanted to be able to "party". That's selfish, no matter which way you slice it. She drinks and uses drugs (never around her kids, though, her mom watches her kids)

[angie7]

Originally Posted by trancechylde

And you know what I've noticed?(and I'm probably going to get so flamed for this)
It's normally the more "crunchy" "free spirited" people I know IRL and on the internet that are the first to place judegment

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by Cutie Patootie

Why shouldn't she worry? Just because it's not our baby, we should not have any emotional feeling towards it. Babies are supposed to be breastfed. 200 years ago, it wasn't a choice. You breastfed your baby...someone else breastfed your baby or they died, unless you had a good goat out in the back. Which I am sure didn't happen that much. There is no "digging deeper" to it. Human milk is for human babies. Nature made it that way. It's not a feeling, it what's right and it's down right bothersome to me regardless of why a woman isn't bf'ing. It doesn't mean I judge those mothers, who in rare circumstances, sadly cannot breastfeed their baby, but my heart still hurts for the baby because he/she is not getting the great, awesome and never ending benefits of breast milk that is their right as a human.

:

and wow! you all got carried away. While I understand (and grieve at the same time) when some women cannot breastfeed for a medical issue, I do get a bit sad when others choose not to bf because they *feel* is best for them for no reason at all. Again, why would you all think we are *judging*? We are WORRIED and SAD for the baby! And yes, for the record, have you read about the benefits of BF? About serious illnesses like leukemia, cancer, asthma, allergies, etc? with all due respect, where have you been?

http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/leukemia.html
http://children.webmd.com/news/20080...r-allergy-risk
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/...cer/index.html

[Mulvah]

Originally Posted by trancechylde

***

And you know what I've noticed?(and I'm probably going to get so flamed for this)
It's normally the more "crunchy" "free spirited" people I know IRL and on the internet that are the first to place judegment

***

Motherhood is hard, testing, trial-and-error sometimes. I'm learing new things about myself every day.
I wish Mamas could just be more supportive of eachother- there's so much joy and common ground in this too!
Like my siggy says........

:

I'm so glad someone else said this, as I have seen this time and time again on this board and it is overwhelming for a newb!

I do think motherhood is a lot about trial and error and everyone striving to do what they think is best.

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by Mulvah

:

I'm so glad someone else said this, as I have seen this time and time again on this board and it is overwhelming for a newb!

I do think motherhood is a lot about trial and error and everyone striving to do what they think is best.

sorry about that Mulvah! I just hope we are having some gentle adult talk here without getting mad at each other Trust me, I have done a lot of wrong things in my motherhood journey and that's why I am here - to learn more I have become an online intalactavist while been in MDC but have been an lactavist forever. I think what it really bother us is when you actually spend time educating someone about the benefits of breastfeeding and thinking you have actually succeeded but when the time comes, they just decide not to breastfeed at all for one reason or another, but NOT medical. Probably for a personal convenience (so what they think because there is nothing more convenient than breastfeeding - ya know... no bottles, no washing, no heating, it's free, etc.), is really sad to go through that after you have done all of that work, is very exhausting BUt again, we have to accept it and keep going, and keep trying... that's what is life is all about

[lovemybubus]

Originally Posted by mamameg

It's just like anything else in life - you have to let go of your expectations of other people. It is no one's job to live up to your expectations of them. Everyone makes their own choices and while we may not always agree with them, we have to, at some point, detach enough to give people room to live their own lives.

Take a deep breath. Remind yourself that her choices are not about you and your choices. You may not agree with them, and that's okay. But if you still want to be friends with this person, you are going to have to find a way to let go of the anger. It's not easy. I've been angry about things that others do. But relationships are not about other people pleasing me. They are about sharing what we have in common and appreciating the differences between us. My life is much richer when I am able to do that.

Wow, thanks for your post. I really needed to hear that right now! So true.

[Crazybean]

I bet this won't be the 1st time she does something that ticks you off as a parent. Perhaps she will spank, fully vaccinate, give her a bunch of plastic lead filled toys to play with ect.. who is right? There are too many things to get mad over.. you have to sit back and support her as a mother and not her choices (as long as the baby is healthy/happy). You gave her the information and she did what she wanted with it which is not listen. Nothing more you can do and you should be at peace with yourself for at least trying. I went back to work in a field that I don't even get to sit down for 2 minutes a day and my supply went from a lot to nothing in just a few weeks. I tried it ALL and cried the last day I was able to even pump out a drop. It's a very personal decision~ perhaps she has a deeper reason..

[karne]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

so she's not going to try because she wants to go back on her bi-polar medication and she doesn't know if it's safe for the baby.

My husband thinks she's the most selfish person on the planet. I think he was more angry than I was.

I obviously don't know you or the woman you say is your friend, but this is a pretty remarkable statement. New mom's with major mental health issues requiring medication in order to be stable and parent have lots on their plates. Maybe the end goal is safe mom and safe baby? Probably no one is helped by judgement in that situation.

Again, I am not in her shoes, so I don't know. Just an observation.

[mamameg]

Originally Posted by karne

I obviously don't know you or the woman you say is your friend, but this is a pretty remarkable statement. New mom's with major mental health issues requiring medication in order to be stable and parent have lots on their plates. Maybe the end goal is safe mom and safe baby? Probably no one is helped by judgement in that situation.

Again, I am not in her shoes, so I don't know. Just an observation.

ITA. I also noticed at least one person mentioned there are "plenty of bi polar meds that are safe for nursing". But those meds might not be the right ones for that particular person. Managing bi polar disorder can be very difficult and it's often a long and challenging process to find the right meds or combo of meds. It's not always so simple to just switch it up.

[karne]

It's one of those situations that just makes me want to say "let's find our common ground mamas!", because the truth is we really never know what someone else is truly going through. We may only be privy to what they decide to tell us, or what we think is happening.

[trancechylde]

I wish Mamas could just be more supportive of eachother- there's so much joy and common ground in this too!

It's one of those situations that just makes me want to say "let's find our common ground mamas!", because the truth is we really never know what someone else is truly going through. We may only be privy to what they decide to tell us, or what we think is happening.

Yes. This.

[Cherry Alive]

Originally Posted by MommyJoia

Formula has been known to cause deaths to children around the world from sever dehydration caused by diarrhea.

Yes, this can happen more in 3rd world countries and bad situations (ex- China's milk supply being poisoned). It is more rare in a developed country. Breast milk can also make children ill, if the mother is consuming something that the child is allergic to or that is poisoness (ex- contaminated well water). It all depends on the situation. This is not to say, that FF is better (absolutely not), but it is not child abuse to choose to FF.

There is no doubt in my mind that while her DS still may have had the reflux, her wouldn't have spent so many nights in the er if he was breastfed.

Unless you were with the kid 24/7 or you are a Pediatrician or Nutritionist, there really isn't any way you can know that for sure. Even then, it may not be an easy problem to fix. So many things can effect a human body—especially that of a baby. And while children on formula are more likely to run into stomach issues, it is possible (even likely) the fact this kid had them was purely circumstantial.

I'm no LC, but I'm sure there are plenty of medications that a bi-polar person can take that are safe for breastfeeding. There are lots of medications that molecularly are too big to pass through the breastmilk.

This sounds a lot like a generalization. As far as I know, there are very few long-term studies done on anti-depressants' effects on children—let alone infants and breast-feeding. I cannot blame your friend for not wanting to take a risk.

Now if it's a choice you make, more power to you. That is your right as it's your body and your children. Sometimes some things can work out really well, but not everything works the same for everybody.

Not to mention the fact that she had none of these medications in the hospital and she could have nursed her baby (DD) in those first few days, in the hospital, giving her baby colostrum, before she even made an appointment with her shrink to get her bi-polar medication prescription. she just truly did not want to. She told my husband after the birth of her son that she didn't BF because she wanted to be able to "party". That's selfish, no matter which way you slice it. She drinks and uses drugs (never around her kids, though, her mom watches her kids)

A lot of medications for mental illness have a long life in the body. It can take from weeks to months for a medication to completely leave someone's system. Even if your friend was cleared of the meds, I'd not completely blame for not BFing as she planned to go back on them, and it may be harder on her child to switch to Formula.

And as your friend has found a medication that possibly keeps her from going over the edge, how can you blame her not wanting to switch to something else?

Experimenting with psychological meds during a huge life-changing events is potentially dangerous as not everyone responds to medications the same way. Finding a good medication (or a combo of meds) can be difficult for someone who even has even a minor mental illness—let alone a person who struggles with bipolar disorder.

But really, is it worth it to be so angry with someone else's life and personal decisions?

There is so much more to life and better ways to put anger to use. That kind of negative energy causes a lot of stress, and is very unhealthy—not only for the mind but the body.

And while I've judged my fair share of people (I am *very* opinionated), I can tell you right now it sucks to be on the receiving end of someone's anger and judgement—even when that person has valid points. Someone could tell me something I 110% would agree with, but if they are talking down to me or treating me like I'm stupid, I'm going to ignore that person and probably shut them out.

If you can't stop judging someone, why waste your (and their) time being friends? It just ends in an ugly toxic mess, otherwise, and then you both lose.