following the Fellowship, TWO TOWERS begins post 281 - Page 3

[ian'smommaya]

okay. figured it out... the blog thing i mean.
and i bought a new to me copy of lotr today. super excited to start.

[wombatclay]

Week Two

Chapter Two The Shadow of the Past

So this chapter starts to set the wider stage. Chapter One shows us the Hobbits and just hints at the world outside. Chapter Two begins to shift the focus a bit, merging the happenings of the Shire (or at least Bilbo) with the happenings of "the world outside" the Shire.

As I was reading this chapter it occured to me that Smeagol and Bilbo both claimed the Ring as a Birthday Present... but for Frodo, it really was a birthday gift. Not sure that means anything, but it's an interesting tidbit. Well, interesting to me anyway!

[nummies]

I found that interesting too wombatclay!

I thought it was neat how we started to learn more about different cultures and creatures surrounding the hobbits. Specifically, Mordor. I also loved the back story of the ring. It was facinating to see how all the events lined up just perfectly for Frodo to get the ring.

Poor Sam...has no clue what he is getting into!

[wombatclay]

I have a big soft spot for Sam... I'm sure I'll get into that much more later on (especially in the last book) but for me Sam is the true hero of the saga. (though as a kid it was everyone but Sam in my mind... I thought he was kind of boring and much prefered Pippin ad Merry as playtime companions.)

Other members of the fellowship have been burdened with the quest, or gifted with the quest, or are looking for adventure, or an experience, or salvation for their people, or the fulfillment of a vision, or simply following some great and mighty unfolding of events. But Sam goes into this out of love and affection and friendship, and his motivation never really changes. Everything he does throughout the saga grows out of the fact that Sam knows who he is, and he knows what he feels, and he makes good on that. And (IMO) that is why Sam comes through the experience heart whole while many of the others don't. He never does anything he needs to be ashamed of.

I don't want to get into specifics since these events are way down the road (and not in the movies ) but warning's fair... I'm gonna be talking Sam a lot!

[Maiasaura]

i like Sam, too, and for those very reasons. while Frodo and Legolas and Aragorn are hot, i'd marry Sam in a heartbeat. he's loyal and true and everything this jaded single mama would want in a guy

[ian'smommaya]

Originally Posted by mercyn

i like Sam, too, and for those very reasons. while Frodo and Legolas and Aragorn are hot, i'd marry Sam in a heartbeat. he's loyal and true and everything this jaded single mama would want in a guy

oh i hear you on that note. especially a poor mom. srsly. after all the sh!t ive been thru with men, not that they were all bad or anything even close to that but i would love one who was loyal and true, and knew themselves...which i think sam does after the first couple of chapters. i think he really learns who strong he is inside.

[eilonwy]

Sam Gamgee... heh. Okay, here's a story for you: Despite my overwhelming geekiness and my complete obsession with all things fantasy and sci-fi, I did not actually read LotR until a few years ago (the first time was about 5.5 years ago, iirc). The first thing that came to mind, then, when I read these books was that Sam was to Frodo what Neville was to Harry Potter. At the time, the fifth HP book was due to be released within a few months and Neville had shown no signs of being anything but a bumbling little dip... but I felt that he had to be important somewhere down the line. Likewise Sam-- he was dippy, but I just knew that he was going to turn out to be important. Of course, this was before I came to the conclusion that my much older brother had probably read the entire series to me when I was too small to remember it, because the story was so ridiculously *familiar*.... but yeah. Those were my thoughts. Sam : Frodo :: Neville : Harry.

[ian'smommaya]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

Those were my thoughts. Sam : Frodo :: Neville : Harry.

i get that totally get that! jk worked hard on her books but she did get the initial inspiration from somehwere. alot of her sutff is based on classic texts.

to many errors. going to ebd now.

[Maiasaura]

i see your analogy, but i don't think Sam's anywhere near as bumbling as Neville.
Neville is extremely accident prone; he's very unsure of himself, and embarrassed *lots*.
Sam is, at first, kind of a minor player, shyer (sp?) than the others, fiercely loyal to a fault, not as "hot" as many of the other man-characters, and a bit chubby, so by comparison to those others he seems more bumbling than he really is. i think the thing is, he's just a "good guy" all around, and, well, you know how it goes...good guys usually get the bad rap. i'm thinking what i really need next is a geek. while i love bad boys as much as the next, i'm over them

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by mercyn

i see your analogy, but i don't think Sam's anywhere near as bumbling as Neville.
Neville is extremely accident prone; he's very unsure of himself, and embarrassed *lots*.
Sam is, at first, kind of a minor player, shyer (sp?) than the others, fiercely loyal to a fault, not as "hot" as many of the other man-characters, and a bit chubby, so by comparison to those others he seems more bumbling than he really is. i think the thing is, he's just a "good guy" all around, and, well, you know how it goes...good guys usually get the bad rap.

Neville starts out a bit younger than Sam, in just the same way that Harry starts out a bit younger than Frodo. Factor for age, and the analogy absolutely holds. Besides which, by the fifth book Neville's rather kickass, if I do say so myself. His lack of presence in the sixth was rather depressing.

i'm thinking what i really need next is a geek. while i love bad boys as much as the next, i'm over them

I hear that. A tall, skinny geek with long, flowing blond hair and... :

[wombatclay]

It's really interesting to me to see the connections made based on when in a person's life they read/see a certain piece of media. Like reading LotR after HP so LotR characters spring off of HP (where for me it was the other way round since LotR came first for me). In my case I read the Riddle Master of Hed books before being exposed to certain classics so in my mind "Tristan" is a girl's name and "Morgan" is a boy and tough noogies for Isolde and leFay.

A co-worker at the library finall saw the Matrix (the first film) just last year and the next day she came in and the other geekly librarians all gathered round with a "Well? Well? What did you think?" and she shook her head and asked "Were they trying to be campy? If they were trying to make a cheesy campy film it was maybe ok, but I'm just not seeing it." And we all realized that the cinematography and vision that the Matrix film sort of pioneered had been so over done in the years since then that the original had become a complete cliche.

The place I stumble on a Neville/Sam comparison is in their motivation, or maybe their focus. Sam does everything out of friendship and loyalty to Frodo. Neville is less focused on Harry... he is more focused on the same goal as Harry, and fond of Harry, but he chooses Gryffindor/the cause over Harry when he must. While Sam chooses Frodo even when the ultimate cause might be better served by cutting Frodo loose (though again that is waaaaaay down the road). I do see the similarity though.

[binkin]

No HP spoilers! I still haven't got around to reading those...

I need to read chapter 2. I also really like Sam.

[CariOfOz]

YAY I finally got the Fellowship and the Two Towers and can get started! I shall catch up to you all quickly

[nummies]

I see the similarity too. For me, Neville came first so that think that it would be easier to make comparsions rather than the other way around.

[wombatclay]

Yeah... I can't really agree with the "Neville is like Sam" direction, but I can see the similarity if I look at it from a "Sam is like Neville" angle, if that makes sense?

But that's the fun part of book discussions IMO... everyone has a different experience and it's neat to discuss those interpretations and build greater depth into each reading.

[ian'smommaya]

Originally Posted by binkin

No HP spoilers! I still haven't got around to reading those...

I need to read chapter 2. I also really like Sam.

oh sweetie. you so need to stop everything else. quit your job, and just read harry potter. srsly.

[CariOfOz]

Originally Posted by ian'smommaya

oh sweetie. you so need to stop everything else. quit your job, and just read harry potter. srsly.

Ok, I'm up to the tail end of chapter 2. Loved all the background info on hobbitses! (sorry I've watched the movies so many times I simply can't not say it ala smeagol hehehe) And already the first HUGE difference from the films, I never knew there was like a 14yr difference between Bilbo leaving the shire to the time Gandalf came back to Frodo to tell him exactly WHAT the ring was. I'm sure there will be a gazillion to follow and I will try very hard not to comment on all of them here lol.

Hubby thinks I'm crazy for reading this.. he loves the movies, but he tried to read the books once apparently and he says now 'how many words does it take to describe the bloody moss on the side of a stone!?!?'

And with that.. I have been handed the peanut butter by the 2yo.. think that's a hint?? (but it's mrs flannerys organic 100% peanuts peanut butter at least.. so hope that's brownie poitns lol.) Oh and lookie.. the loaf of bread is now in my lap LMAO

[wombatclay]

I'll be honest... the first movie is pretty close to the books. Things were edited of course since it's a big book with LOTS of depth (or moss covered rocks, you pays your money you takes your choice). By the time you get into the second movie/book the differences become A LOT bigger, and the third movie really leans on the "inspired by the book" line IMO. Totally understandable, and you can see why some things were done (or listen to the commentary) but basically changing small things at the start eventually required changing big things later on.

Oh...and while there is a lot of mossy rock stuff at the beginning, that does taper off somewhat. The FotR began as a sort of sequal to the Hobbit... it was going to be a children's story. As it grew darker though the intended audience changed and the writing gets a bit more clean.

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by eilonwy

I hear that. A tall, skinny geek with long, flowing blond hair and... :

nah...*dark* hair. and not so skinny. i used to go for way skinny guys, but now that i'm way fat, i think it'd probably just make me feel like i stand out more. i could go for some extra poundage, but not hugely much.

[Maiasaura]

Originally Posted by CariOfOz

And with that.. I have been handed the peanut butter by the 2yo.. think that's a hint?? (but it's mrs flannerys organic 100% peanuts peanut butter at least.. so hope that's brownie poitns lol.) Oh and lookie.. the loaf of bread is now in my lap LMAO

think that's a hint?

my ds is 7, nearing 8, and yesterday? he's eating a small salad in his room, yells out "mom? can you bring me more dressing?" i yell back "no, but you can come get it yourself" and i don't see him and i don't see him. like an hour later, he's ready to go into the tub, and i said "you didn't eat your salad!". to which he says "i needed more dressing." well, duh...get. used. to. this: i am NOT your slave. go. get. it. yourself.