I need a tf guide.

[*Aimee*]

So I was vegetarian for 5 years, and in that time gained 80lbs. I was vegan on and off. I was already heavy to begin with. I'm now morbidly obese, weighing 280lbs (down 24 from my highest, YAY!).

I was sitting there a few weeks ago and just missing something. I was looking at my sons hollowed eyes (he refuses to eat anything but fruit right now and maybe some yogurt) and feeling like we needed more. So I included fish into our diet and a week later chicken and beef, buffalo ect. Everything but pork (it makes me sad to eat pigs).

I've always been big on whole foods (though I don't practice like I should) and making as much as I can from scratch. I'm pretty strict with what my son can eat (no juice, hfcs, only organic dairy).

Basically I need us to be healthy. I'm not sure I agree with everything I've found out about TF. Like all the fat sounds so scary to me! My mother lost 110 lbs on weight watchers a year ago, and is always telling me how horrible fat is. My MIL has never been very heavy but is super against fat and almost died when I told her I let my son eat a stick of cold butter.

I'm also not sure about how to eat meat healthily. I've found a few sources of local grassfed beef that we're happy with. I can't find chicken anywhere so we just buy organic, which I know isn't the best but will have to do while I keep searching. We buy farm fresh eggs, and only use local raw honey in our baking. We also eat only local organic fruits and veggies.

My husband is avid against raw milk. I've had him read up on it but he says there is NO way our kids will ever have it I know it's silly but he feels very strongly. Right now we have non homogenized organic local milk. Is this okay? does it have to be raw milk?

Also, my sons are formula fed. I have IGT and do nurse my baby what I have. But it's only about an oz per feeding. The rest is formula. He'll be starting solids in a few weeks and I'm nervous. I've never fed a baby meat.

I'm really confused about keifer, yogurt, and kombochu (I know I probably spelled that wrong). I've read all the stickies here, and googled and it still seems so hard and so involved. I don't even know where I'd start.

So can someone help me? Just tell me what you eat, why you believe TF is the healthiest way to eat, how you feel, and about all the keifer and yogurt making.

Thank you so much :

[Gale Force]

Dear Aimee,

Congratulations on those 24 pounds! That's fantastic.

I think the biggest change people make is actually eating whole foods. Since you already do that and know how to cook, adding meat is not a big deal. Honestly, I would not worry about all of the "how to"s in terms of traditional foods. Take them one at a time. Experiment with yogurt for a bit, then kefir, and so on. Don't worry about raw milk if it's causing marital strife. It's a small part of a vast menu.

On your weight loss, there is the book "Eat Fat, Lose Fat," but it doesn't work well for me. Some people lose on it, some modify it to include almost no grains and lose on it. If you try it and start to gain, I'd try something else. I am actually a calorie reduction and exercise gal myself. Are you currently able to do an exercise routine (physically, time-wise, etc)?

Amanda

[*Aimee*]

Thanks so much Amanda!

I have recently started doing a Walk Away The Pounds video in my house. It's a 2 mile 30 min walk. And then my husband and I have started taking an additional 1.6 mile walk at least 3 nights a week. We walk to the school and let my little one play and then walk back. I'm worried about the weather though, it'll be too cold for that soon.

Thanks for replying and for the advice.

[quietserena]

I understand that's a big step to take for you guys!

I'm not however sure how to answer your post. You've already taken steps in the positive direction, definitely. The 'how to TF' sticky is helpful in the actual how. If you eat grains, soaking them is not too hard to do and makes things easier.

Getting used to the idea that fat is good will take some time. The weight watchers and similar programs do work but unfortunately they don't work very well long term. Most people here have found that once they start eating fat, they crave it like crazy because their bodies are somewhat fat deprived. Some have found that after some time tey go back to a relatively low fat diet because they got enough, I suppose. Many here have had good results with a low/no grain diet with no sugar for weight loss.

Regarding your son, my daughter has gone through phases like that. One thing she seems to eat no matter what is mashed potatoes, with loads of butter. Sometimes she'll eat bits of chicken with it. Another thing she seems to like is almond butter and honey mixture either off a spoon or on a cracker.

HTH

[Gale Force]

quietserena's comment about fat was my experience. I ate *a lot* at first but now just don't crave it as much and really can't eat as much as I used to crave.

[Missa]

:Congrats on your weight loss!:
I too was leary of the fat at first but I have to tell you that I am doing so much better now. My skin is smooth and not scaly, my hair looks shinier, my complection looks...alive! I swear I was so pale and malnourished looking. I wasn't vegetarian but I didn't eat as much meat before as I do now. I love cooking with coconut oil and I add a tablespoon to my morning yogurt smoothie. I like to put organic natural style peanut butter on celery for a snack. I also use butter as much as I want although like others have mentioned the craving has diminished some, I was loading my veggies with butter before but now I use a moderate amount. We switched to whole milk (I don't drink raw either, we do try to buy non-homogenized whenever possible though). We are slowly but surely incorporating the NT principles into our life and definately already noticing very positive changes.

As far as weight loss goes, when I started I wanted to lose 15 pounds. I have actually gained 5 pounds but I've lost one size. I'm also doing t-tapp and so I believe I am losing fat but gaining muscle in it's place. I'm not too sure now what I should weigh, but I'm not worried about it. I figure my body is going through many positive changes and I'll drop some pounds when my body is ready to lose them.

[Jojo F.]

Way to go on your weight loss, that's fantastic!!!!

And I agree with the others, you have already done so much in the way of food choices.

The non-homogenized milk is fine and is probably the next best thing to raw milk. It's funny, I had no trouble convincing DH AND my SAD eating IL's that raw milk was healthy AND I'm pregnant!!

Anywho, with our society and the way they view fat, it's hard to reprogram. I feel like they forget to mention good stables fats and the bad rancid fats/trans fats. We are just now starting to hear about trans fats but they have saturated fat all wrong Poor fat

Our bodies need good fats to absorb fat soluble vits A, D, E, and K. Our bodies don't go through the fat soluble vits as quickly as water soluble vits so that's probably why some of us eat a ton of fat right away and then taper off; our bodies store them up and then we don't need all the extra fat soluble vits.

The fermentaion stuff seems scary at first but becomes REALLY addicting!!!! I started with water kefir grains, then did some veggies, then went to kombucha, and am now onto milk kefir. My next venture will be yogurt. If you are interested in any of the fermentation just dive right in. For a while I was really weary of it and read and read and read and read myself to death. I just had to DO IT!! There is a bit of a learning curve but if it smells awful don't eat/drink it, and the smell will be AWFUL!!

For me, TF just makes sense. Our ancestors prepared foods a certain way because it help to preserve the food and halped make nutrients more bio-available; they really NEEDED foods to provide what they needed more so then us today. Even if you are a mut like me there are foods that will be more beneficial to you and you will FEEL it. If you feel crummy eating a TON of meat, back off a bit and this goes for everything else too.

HTH!!!

[LoMaH]

Aimee
Cute boys! Congrats on your weight loss, keep yourself motivated.
I thought I'd post a few links for you.... the ladies here are so good at providing answers to any concerns. My advice is to read, read, read.... read this forum, buy some of the books,
read articles on the Weston A. Price Foundation website http://www.westonaprice.org/sitemap.html
perhaps contact some local group for support. http://www.westonaprice.org/localchapters/index.html

Sounds like you're heading in the right direction already.
Don't overwhelm yourself by doing too much at once. A few changes at a time is good enough.

I was looking at my sons hollowed eyes (he refuses to eat anything but fruit right now and maybe some yogurt)

Smoothies are usually a good way to get some nutrients in the picky little ones.
Here are some other ideas:
Taking the "Icky" out of picky eaters
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/picky-eaters.html

My husband is avid against raw milk..........
I know it's silly but he feels very strongly. Right now we have non homogenized organic local milk. Is this okay? does it have to be raw milk?

As someone already said, if your husband's against it- then let it go for now and maybe down the line he'll come on board.
You can get good quality yogurt.
You can also make the following, my kids like it (tho we also drink raw milk). I add blueberries, egg yolks, stevia.
Coconut Milk Tonic (makes 4 servings)
1 can whole coconut milk
3/4 cup filtered water
1-2 tablespoons maple syrup
1/2 teaspoon vanilla extract
1 teaspoon KAL brand dolomite powder

Mix all ingredients and heat gently. Serve in a mug. Note: Coconut Milk Tonic contains the same calories, fat and calcium as whole milk. However, this recipe should not be used as a substitute for raw milk in our recipes for baby formula. The tonic is still missing many compounds and nutrients found in raw milk. However, Coconut Milk Tonic can be used as a substitute for milk in a diet containing a variety of whole foods.

Good luck to you.

[Rawa]

Hi Aimee! I am new to Traditions foods diet also. We have been adding things one at a time for about a month now. I think this is the way to go rather than become overwhelmed. I bought the Nourishing traditions cookbook and have been using that. One of the best things is the bone broth, I make it all the time. We have just discovered that the kombucha tastes really nice.

We can't get raw milk in Singapore so normal full cream milk is what we use from Australian cows - as they eat grass and see the sun

My 7 year old daughter had 4 warts on her hands for 2 years - we couldn't get rid of them - tried every-thing. After 1 month of her having a soup made from a chicken bone broth and just giving her snacks made from eggs, cream butter. 3 warts just dissapeared and the other one has shrunk. She is so much calmer and happier.

I made the broth and then I mix it into her food. She likes having it with tomato paste (looks and tastes like tomato soup) - she dips bread into it and also i mix a spoonfull into her rice.

She likes oats for breakfast and I stir a spoonful of cream into that each day. I guess I have just tweaked a few things to make them a little healthier.

[momma4fun]

i believe that meat and fat bone broth are way more easily digested and nutritionally dense than milk and other dairy products any way!

if i were you, i would focus on meat for a while

get ground beef with the higher fat percentage

eat beef cuts like short ribs, skirt steak, fatty roasts

consider rendering suet into tallow to use as some of your cooking oil

and eat a lot of eggs. when you have scrambled eggs, add extra yolks, and whisk extra butter into them.

make bone broth!


at the same time concentrate on cutting out all plant oils

only use tallow, butter, coconut oil

And I highly suggest you read Fiber Menace and give your bodies a break from fiber to heal.

even if you don't have an immediate result of weightloss i bet you'll immediately have much better energy

and if not, you should get all your hormone and thyroid levels checked

[Rawa]

Originally Posted by momma4fun

i believe that meat and fat bone broth are way more easily digested and nutritionally dense than milk and other dairy products any way!

Yes, my daughter hates milk so this is one of the main reasons I made the broth! Also the broth can be put into most foods. I even put a big dollop of it into some macaroni cheese! (I got a bit carried away with it all in the first few weeks hehe.

I get tired easily and previously my doctor gave me some iodine tablets to help my thyroid along. I also make the fish broth with fish heads and bones (they have lots of iodine.). No-one likes the fish broth but me I strain it through a cloth as I am mega paranoid about bones) and make the soup that has coconut milk and lemon - it's pretty good.

I gained weight on my first week, mainly due to excitement about eating lots of butter, but have settled now and slowly losing weight. The kombucha takes away my craving for tea/coffee and sweet drinks.

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by Jojo F.

For a while I was really weary of it and read and read and read and read myself to death. I just had to DO IT!!!

This was me with fermentation too. I remember I worked myself in a tizzy about saurkraut, trying to understand, and then I watched someone do it and realized it was really very simple. I think that's what's hard sometimes about TF; we've lost the examples we used to have!

I wanted to mention sleep and melatonin as part of weight loss. For me, at least. I think for me that's in part because I've had adrenal issues, and melatonin-rich sleep supports the adrenals, and the adrenals support metabolism, etc. I've lost several pounds since reading on this board about how to get melatonin-rich sleep. A couple of Tablespoons of honey at night before bed helps melatonin production, but most important you have to remove all artificial light sources. If there's a streetlight shining in your window, for example, blocking the window would be necessary. The body can only produce melatonin in real darkness. I started with the honey, but then dropped that and have just been going to bed early and with no supplemental light, and have been seeing a big difference in my weight.

And our ancestors certainly got lots of melatonin-rich sleep, going to sleep soon after the sun and having no artificial light sources. I think it's a big part of keeping our whole system working in a TF way. Not to mention that melatonin is one of the most potent natural cancer preventatives we have!

You mentioned difficulty eating meat, and I wanted to mention that bone broth is good for the transition period you're in, because gelatin-rich broth is a protein sparer, which means you can eat less meat and get the same nutritional benefit. If making bone broth or soup is too overwhelming right now, then buy some high-quality broth and add some high-quality gelatin to it (Jensen's is the best brand), and drink it like a tea or add it to your kids' oatmeal.

You asked to know how people eat, and I just wanted to encourage you to take it one step at a time. It took me a couple of years to get kefir grains! But I've seen improvements in my health since the very beginning of eating TF, just taking one step at a time. I started by just adding raw milk and grass-fed beef and coconut oil, and have worked up to fermented veggies, soaked grains, broths, organ meats, and homemade kefir. It's become easier over the past 2-3 years to do a TF meal plan that we can stick to pretty easily, but I was overwhelmed when I tried to do that for every meal at the beginning. And we still have a really awful non-TF pasta meal once a week, just because we love us some Carbonara. Ohhhh, just the mention of it makes me salivate.

So take it slow, pick some things that feel easy to incorporate into your life, and then keep reading and add things slowly from there. You're doing great already!

[mbravebird]

Oh, and have you looked at KerryAnn's Traditional Foods menu mailer? It's great for TF meal planning, because she plans out all the preparation in addition to the shopping list, etc -- sort of does the thinking for you. That was the hardest part for me, the thinking ahead to soak things. Here's the link:

http://www.cookingtf.com/mailer.html

I think she might have a weight-loss menu, too. She posts on here, so she'll correct me if I'm wrong!

[Rainbow2911]

Well done on your weight loss! I started eating tfs after losing about 90lbs and I was a bit nervous about all that fat too! I decided to give it a go and see how my weight reacted. At first we all ate a lot of butter and other fats. I guess we were making up! But that didn't last long. Now our diets are not particularly high in fat, but we eat it when we crave it. I went through a phase of craving cream a couple of weeks ago, ate plenty and now I'm over it. As far as my weight goes, I maintained for a few weeks eating just what I liked (as long as it was tf) then lost about half a pound a week for a while. Then had some problems with falling off the wagon (some ice cream and chocolate just jumped into my mouth.... ) and gained a bit. So now I am making an effort to cut down on grains to lose those pounds. But I have never gained weight when I have eaten just tfs - only when processed foods and sugar find thier way in.

I feel that tf is healthiest for me just because of how natural it is to me. This is the food we have been eating for centuries, by and large! And it tastes great too.

If making kefir, kombucha etc sounds scary to you now then leave it. You can eat perfectly well without doing these things. You might want to try it at some point (it is fun!) but don't panic! All this is really overwhelming and you don't need to do it all at once. If you do want to start I would suggest culturing your own butter milk or creme fraiche to start with. Just get some live butter milk and stir about a tbsp into a cup of milk or double cream (for creme fraiche) in a jar. Put it in a cupboard and leave it overnight or for 24 hours if your house is cooler. Then it's done! Put it in the fridge and enjoy. You can get the starter in the supermarket and you don't need to worry about temperatures or anything.


I have a blog where I put the recipes I use for myself and my kids. It might help you to see what one tf family actually eats day to day.

Good luck!

[*Aimee*]

Thank you ladies so much. You're so awesome.

One of the first things I crave, and why I gave up being veggie in the first place was I felt something inside of me telling me my family and I needed chicken bone broth. Isn't that strange? After so long of not eating meat and that is what pushed me over. I've already made three chicken meals (over 3 weeks) with one soup meal each week from the carcass. My question is, I see a lot of you add bone broths and have some every day. Where do you get all these carcasses?

I feel so confused because all my veggie life I've heard how milk causes cancer and meat causes cancer, and now I'm hearing soy causes cancer. I wish there were solid information on all of this. Right now I try watching my son, because I figure his diet is the least messed around with. He eats what he wants and stops when he's full. And once a week or so he needs just straight up butter!

So, butter and fats are good, and so is coconut oil, but not olive oils? what kind of coconut oil? Organic I'm assuming? I can find organic but it comes in a plastic tub, and non organic in glass.

Also, I get what you're saying. At first you eat a ton of fat, but then you only eat it when you crave it, so your diet isnt really any higher in fat than it should be.

I bought some kombucho today at the store! Do I drink all the squiggly chunks? I am totally addicted to dr pepper. I was drinking a large soy mocha from starbucks and a 20 oz dr pepper a day. I've quit soy, and starbucks, and now am having 1 12 oz dr pepper for a week then I'll be done with that. but I think kombucho would be perfect to cut my soda addiction. So I'm going to try and figure out how to make it! And you can give it to kids?

Thank you for the links, and rainbow, your blog is awesome.

I have a lot of reading to do.

Again I cant tell you how much I appreciate all of this!!

[Rainbow2911]

I buy 'soup bones' - either chicken carcasses after the meat is taken off for chicken breasts etc or beef bones. They are really cheap and help to keep us stocked up with broth. We eat a lot of soup in the winter so just a roast a week doesn't keep us going. Plus I can usually pick a meals worth of meat off the carcasses too!

Honestly I've stopped reading most of the scare stories. Everything causes cancer if you google enough! Every diet has it's research and opinion backing it up. I eat traditional foods because it also has thousands of years of human experience backing it up and I feel healthiest on it.

Olive oil it ok. It can't be heated much, especially extra virgin, so isn't much good for cooking. But I use it to make pizza dough, salad dressings etc. It is a traditional fat. Coconut oil - you want to find unrefined oil that hasn't been heated. As far as organic - the stuff I buy isn't certified organic but most coconuts are organic in practice.

I drink the brown squiggly bits in kombucha (they are yeasts) but not the clear jelly (which is a new scoby forming - probably doesn't happen to professional brewers but mine are enthusiastic!). It does help with soda addiction! Before I discovered it I was drinking a little apple cyder vinegar in water to get that acid taste. KT is much nicer!

Glad the blog helps and thanks! . Eek if people are going to look at it I'd better get around to updating it!

[saratc]

Welcome, Aimee, and congrats on the weight loss!

Clarification on fats -- for cooking, you want to stick with animal fats, coconut oils, and ghee or butter. They are very stable fats that will not change much when cooked.

For raw, on salads, some vegetable fats are very good for you. Raw olive oil is a good source of antioxidants including vitamin E. Cold pressed, raw nut oils such as walnut oil is high in Omega 3's. Cold press avocado oil is teeming with good nutrients too. These oils should not be cooked since they are not heat stable, and you can create carcinogens and trans fats when heated at too high a temperature. If you must cook with a vegetable oil, use coconut oil, high oleic sunflower or safflower oil, or virgin olive oil (lower heats since it has a low smoke point). Flax seed oil, also high in Omega 3's should never be cooked.

Other vegetable oils should be avoided. Peanut oil is very heat stable but high in Omega 6's, so should be avoided since most people are already imbalanced in terms of Omega 3 to 6. Grapeseed oil has the same problem of throwing off the Omega 3 to 6 balance. Canola oil, cottonseed oil, corn oil, soybean oil, and just about all the other vegetable oils should be avoided altogether since they are either synthetic, mostly GM, or usually extracted using chemical processes.

My husband and I went on the traditional foods diet about 5 years ago. Five months ago, we went on the GAPs diet, which is the traditional foods diet without complex sugars and grains. I have heard it before, but didn't believe it 'til now -- fat does not make you fat, carbohydrates and sugar does. We have both dropped weight after going on the GAPs diet -- DH 17 lbs, and me 13 lbs. We eat mostly vegetables and meats at every meal with tons of animal fats and olive oil. We are allowed fruit, but since that still cultivates a sweet tooth in people who have candida overgrowth, we are avoiding it altogether. We both think we have yeast/candida issues since if we have fruit or honey, which are allowed on GAPs, it makes us hypoglycemic, meaning we will get hungry much faster and start craving sugars.

If you're worried about your weight, I would not worry about the fats, but try to reduce your daily carb intake.

[*Aimee*]

It sounds like that would be a lot like the atkins diet? I tried that many years ago and felt so sick, but I was not using organic anything and was using a lot of the freaky bars.

so I'm assuming that scraping off all the fat from the top of my broth like my MIL suggested is not a good thing?

[mbravebird]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

My question is, I see a lot of you add bone broths and have some every day. Where do you get all these carcasses?

I buy chicken backs from the farmer's market; they come really cheap, and the bony backs are perfect for broth. Chicken feet are also really good for broth (lots of gelatin in the feet) and really affordable.

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

I feel so confused because all my veggie life I've heard how milk causes cancer and meat causes cancer, and now I'm hearing soy causes cancer.

Commercial, industrialized milk and meat are pretty bad for us, I agree. Soy that's similarly industrialized is similarly dangerous, in my understanding. Traditional societies who ate soy always ate it fermented and didn't eat it in large quantities. I think the key is to eat soy that is not processed and is put through some fermentation stage. Tamari, for example, instead of commercial soy sauce. Tastes the same but prepared really differently.

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

So, butter and fats are good, and so is coconut oil, but not olive oils? what kind of coconut oil? Organic I'm assuming? I can find organic but it comes in a plastic tub, and non organic in glass.

You really just need to get "extra-virgin" coconut oil in order to get the most important benefits. Organic may or may not be extra-virgin. Olive oils are fine for eating straight, not cooking with, as pp mentioned I think.

Have fun!!

[quietserena]

Originally Posted by *Aimee*

It sounds like that would be a lot like the atkins diet? I tried that many years ago and felt so sick, but I was not using organic anything and was using a lot of the freaky bars.

so I'm assuming that scraping off all the fat from the top of my broth like my MIL suggested is not a good thing?

It doesn't have to be as extreme as atkins. People still lose weight even eating fruit, which iirc isn't allowed on the induction phase of atkins.

I like to make rice with broth and the fat really makes it taste much better. I do sometimes pull it off, but only to use it in other dishes like mashed potatoes.