making formula prescription only? - Page 3

[the_lissa]

No way.

First of all, I don't agree with taking away anyone's choice. Second of all, if it were rx only, doctors would hand out rx's for no reason, so it wouldn't have your desired effect.

It would drive up costs.

If someone needs formula for any reason, they would have to go to a doctor first, which would delay a hungry baby from getting food.

Not everyone in the U.S. can afford to see a doctor.

I would much rather support women who choose to breastfeed and try to foster a breastfeeding friendly culture so more women will choose to breastfeed.

[Dame]

I think this is a terrible idea. If you want to support breastfeeding, the government needs to provide services to do so. Actual maternity leave for a year, free access to lactation consultants, continuing support as the baby gets older, perhaps even pumps. I'm exclusively pumping after having terrible trouble with getting breastfeeding started. I had to go back to work when my daughter was 3 weeks old, could not afford a consultation with a lactation consultant. More support services would have been enormously helpful in my situation.

[Masel]

There are an awful lot of babies being taken care of my someone who isn't their biological mother. From babysitters, to adoptive moms like me, to that poor man in Omaha who's wife died after the birth of 9th child. I suppose we're all part of the exception listed all the way back in the OP but there are a lot of critical situation where the not biologically equipped person has got to feed the baby now - no prescription hunting.

My SIL who is a very enthused BFer still needed the sample can of formula when she was caught in a devastating storm on the 10 minute trip to pick up her older kids. She was gone over two hours and they couldn't communicate since cell towers were down. Her DH had to use the formula.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by Kinguk

I can not believe what I am reading on this thread. I am absolutely in favour of formula becoming a prescription. Formula should be a choice? Or should breastfeeding be a right for all babies? Really, the parents aren’t making this “choice” at all…

Formula companies have become as strong as tobacco companies. They’re a very powerful industry where a lot, A LOT of money is being made. Our society is saturated with inaccurate information about the neccesities of breastfeeding and the well known risks of formula feeding; all at the expense of our dear little babies. As a result, way too many families are “choosing” to not breastfeed their babies.

I just moved from a place where 9 out of 10 moms chose not to breastfeed their little ones. Of my friends:
~One breastfed for a week because her husband, “made” her
~One gave up after 1.5 months because it was too stressful…(no support…I don’t blame her)
~One weaned her baby after 6 months because, “there is no nutritional benefits to breastfeeding after 6 months”
~One didn’t breastfeed her children because, “they didn’t like to suck” (figure that one out??)
~And one couldn’t produce milk and couldn’t go past three months. In this case I appreciate that there is formula so scientifically advanced that her baby will, indeed, be just fine. She is now pregnant with her second child and just announced that she “is not going to bother even trying to breastfeed this one” Hmm

In my doctors reception office there was a pyramid of formula cans free for the taking. I watched as families walked out with one or two cans at a time…

If this many families think not breastfeeding their babies is OK then I absolutely do not blame the parents. I blame our society and the poor information that is out there about breastfeeding.

This is what I would love to see:
~ Formula available by prescription only
~ Doctors advocating, educating, and encouraging breastfeeding – rather than being so sensitive to parents feelings when they announce their 'choice' not to breastfeed ie: "you don’t want to breastfeed? That’s OK, it’s your 'choice' "
~ Mothers working one on one with a lactation consultant until breastfeeding is successful and well-established – not just one day in the hospital and a “good luck”
~ Formula advertisments taken out of parenting magazines, hospitals, doctors offices, TV commercials…anywhere
~ No more sample take home packages ($$$ another marketing technique $$$)
~ Education, Education, Education

Formula began as a great thing; it saved many lives. It is now a HUGE industry. There is way to much money being made by these companies and when there is money to be made…

Well, in Canada where we voluntarily adhere to WHO code, most of this list is already in place.

I think that make formula perscription only is a very bad idea. It will amount to needless expense and paperwork for those who genuinely need it and may result in the making of home made formula and the malnourishment of infants.

I am as much of a breastfeeding advocate as the next lactivist, but one does not have to be anti-formula to be a breastfeeding advocate. Bottom line, before we had formula, more babies died. I would not support legislation that made formula more expensive and difficult to obtain.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

Well, in Canada where we voluntarily adhere to WHO code, most of this list is already in place.

This must really depend on where you live. The formula cans that I have seen (in Montreal) have pics of babies on them (against WHO code) as do all the marketing advertisements in newspapers and magazines, as well as the web (for example you can see the AbbottNutrition.ca site that I somehow get as an ad on the MDC breastfeeding forums - I have informed the mods).

Many hospitals and doctors use formula sponsered growth charts and posters, and formula is given out at the hospitals, and it arrives by mail as well - just like in the USA. Sadly, the formula companies do not respect the Code in Canada.

[honeybunch2k8]

[QUOTE=Mama_Meme;12252469With a wide spread education initiative, maybe it would work? and public health care? Right now in Canada, doctors are now taught to encourage mothers to breastfeed instead of just offering the formula option to any mom that comes in having a hard time bf'ing. all the education and information put out by health canada is stating that bfing is the best option. i wonder how we can reach more people with this education, or have the education have more impact.

la.[/QUOTE]

I think educations campaigns have worked in other places (norway i think is one example, near 100% initiation), don't know how that would work here.

Oh yes and I'd love it if there were a system in which moms who wanted to stay home with kids (perhaps theyd breastfeed or breastfeed longer) could. And how about flex time/more work at home opportunities for mom? The way things happen doesn't make any sense, but I'll just stop there.

[honeybunch2k8]

Originally Posted by petra_william

well actually its not so far fetched or impossible or "wrong" as some of you believe
they do it in norway, 99 % of mums bf at birth and 20 % continue after 1 year. they DO however get over 40 weeks maternity leave at full pay. and a hell of a lot mroe support.
teh government also banned any kind of advertising of formula.
there's lots of things that wuold have to change but it certainly isnt impossible or even a "robbing of rights"
in the us you cuold say you are robbed of your rights to stay at home with your baby and nurture and raise him to be a person who will contribute to the country in some way or the other. instead mums have to go back to work and their kids are fed ff and take more money out of the government because they need more medical treatment.

i think its a brilliant idea but its not as simple as just making ff available on prescription. a lot more has to happen to make it possible for mums to bf their babies. and societies attitudes can only change for the better if all those other things that help mums bf are implemented. for as long as giving birth and wanting to raise a child is not seen worthy enough to have the support needed then attitudes wont change.

the government CAN do something. they just need to get off their beehinds and do it.

IA 100% with everything you said.

I do definitely think it could work.

It must be nice to have all that maternity leave.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

This must really depend on where you live. The formula cans that I have seen (in Montreal) have pics of babies on them (against WHO code) as do all the marketing advertisements in newspapers and magazines, as well as the web (for example you can see the AbbottNutrition.ca site that I somehow get as an ad on the MDC breastfeeding forums - I have informed the mods).

Many hospitals and doctors use formula sponsered growth charts and posters, and formula is given out at the hospitals, and it arrives by mail as well - just like in the USA. Sadly, the formula companies do not respect the Code in Canada.

These are code violations and should be reported as such. Formula is given out as hospitals, but only upon request or on doctor's orders. Free formula is not given to new mothers by default. If it is, again, this is a code violation and should be reported to code watch.

[the_lissa]

That is the same thing here. Every formula can has a picture of a baby. Formula is given out freely in hospitals, even in my city's so called baby friendly hospital, etc. If I were to report every instance, it would be a full time job.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

These are code violations and should be reported as such. Formula is given out as hospitals, but only upon request or on doctor's orders. Free formula is not given to new mothers by default. If it is, again, this is a code violation and should be reported to code watch.

Yes - but there is nothing to be done after it is reported! The voluntary agreement to follow the Code has no power.

That is why formula sold in Canada still has babies on the cans. And why nurses in non-BFI hospitals still tuck some formula into mom's bag as she leaves 'just in case' and why medical students get about 1 hour of lecture on brestfeeding that often says 'breast is best but don't make moms feel guilty if they want to use formula.'

I completely agree with you that the Code should be followed - but it isn't. Just check out all the baby bottle advertisements - they are against the code too! The formula and baby feeding companies are not interested in following the Code, and without the bite of it being binding, rather than voluntary, there is nothing to make them change. I find it embarrassing that Canada didn't sign the Code for real.

[Astrogirl]

I always thought Lactivism was about education regarding breastfeeding - to free women of the hurdles our society has put in place that might prevent someone who wants to breastfeeding from doing so successfully. I never thought it would be about FORCING women to breastfeed.

Count me as another "pro-choice" lactivist.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by Kinguk

This is what I would love to see:
~ Formula available by prescription only
~ Doctors advocating, educating, and encouraging breastfeeding – rather than being so sensitive to parents feelings when they announce their 'choice' not to breastfeed ie: "you don’t want to breastfeed? That’s OK, it’s your 'choice' "
~ Mothers working one on one with a lactation consultant until breastfeeding is successful and well-established – not just one day in the hospital and a “good luck”
~ Formula advertisments taken out of parenting magazines, hospitals, doctors offices, TV commercials…anywhere
~ No more sample take home packages ($$$ another marketing technique $$$)
~ Education, Education, Education

But people who don't want to breastfeed or who can't for some reason just aren't going to magically decide to do it for 1-4 years because suddenly formula disappeared from the shelves. Well, some might. But some might start making their own. So, is it really worse for babies to have access to formula than to have concoctions made of whole milk or corn syrup or any number of "cheap" alternatives that people may turn to if their insurance won't cover their prescription, they can't get into a doctor, or they don't have a doctor to begin with?

While it's admirable that you want to look out for all of the babies, not every woman is going to make the choice that we on MDC believe is best. And so you're not "punishing" the moms for making the "wrong choice"--you are punishing the babies who now may become malnourished becomes of some cheap homemade formula alternative.

You can't force a woman to choose to continue to lactate. You can't. So really, it's the baby that will suffer. I'd rather give them access to formula than to whatever crap someone decides will suffice.

And before you think I'm anti-bfing, I bfed my son for 3 1/2 years. I bfed my adopted daughter (whom I didn't even meet until she was 4 months old) for a short time. I did it both times with an extremely low supply requiring me to use a Lactaid with every single feeding session, for years. And I'm about to do it all again, Lactaid and all.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

Yes - but there is nothing to be done after it is reported! The voluntary agreement to follow the Code has no power.

That is why formula sold in Canada still has babies on the cans. And why nurses in non-BFI hospitals still tuck some formula into mom's bag as she leaves 'just in case' and why medical students get about 1 hour of lecture on brestfeeding that often says 'breast is best but don't make moms feel guilty if they want to use formula.'

I completely agree with you that the Code should be followed - but it isn't. Just check out all the baby bottle advertisements - they are against the code too! The formula and baby feeding companies are not interested in following the Code, and without the bite of it being binding, rather than voluntary, there is nothing to make them change. I find it embarrassing that Canada didn't sign the Code for real.

This is where it all starts. Canada is making great strides in this area. I agree with you that it's not enough, but it's a start. I personally have reported many code violations and have seen action taken. I have served on two BFI committees and have seen change and action in short periods of time. We can't do everything at once. Technically any advertising of formula in fliers is against the Code as well. All of these can be sent to Code Watch. The thing is, most people don't even bother.

[pumpkinhead]

My MIL had access to commercial infant formula. Did she use it? No. My dh was fed a mixture of carnation evaporated milk and corn syrup. The can used to have "infant feeding" instructions on the side. She didn't know any better. Carnation was cheaper, everyone else used it, so she did too.

She partially nursed her second and third because of education.

I think education and support is where we need to put our lactation energy, not efforts to make formula perscription only.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by pumpkinhead

I personally have reported many code violations and have seen action taken.

This is excellent news - do you mind sharing your success stories? I get discouraged.

There are changes on a local level in hospitals/with individual doctors, but as far as the formula companies go, I feel like it is a losing battle. We get hosptials to stop giving out formula and the nurses sneak it into women as they leave ('watching out for them' - brainwashed by formula companies who sponser infant feeding conferences/workshops) or moms get free cooler bags from Nestle or Enfamil in the mail ('it's OK, I use them for breastmilk only' - giving free advertising to the company and normalising formula, plus there is always that can if you need it...). We get community events to voluntarily stick to the Code and then mothers get bombarded with fliers and coupons for free formula when they sign up for maternity gear.

I know that we need to keep going a step at a time (thanks for the reminder ) - I just wish our politicians had the forsight and courage to sign the Code.

[Contrariety]

I haven't read all the posts...

I'm militantly pro-brestfeeding, but prescription only formula would harm way way more babies than it would help. The fact is that we do not live in a society that truly values and supports families. Until we can support new moms by giving them maternity leave, mandating regulations for pumping at work and nursing in public... until we can make breastfeeding NORMAL instead of gross, it's not going to work.

It just means many babies will get kool-aid instead. If we can change the tides so that BF *is* the norm, then I don't have a problem with it being prescription only like it is in other countries, but I think it should be like birth control- it should be something that continues to give women options instead of taking them away. It should require thorough education to require a script, and formula companies should not be able to direct market to women (though I already think that should be outlawed...). The price would have to be regulated so that babies and mamas don't get steamrolled.

... back to finish reading posts...

[yoginisarah]

Being vegan, I don't think formula should exist for our consumption at all. Every drop of cow's milk a human drinks was meant for a mama cow to be able to breastfeed her calf. Shouldn't a lactivist be pro-breastfeeding for all mammals?
However, I do think that non-animal based formulas should exist and that people should be allowed to choose. I do think though that doctors should do a much better job promoting the benefits of breastfeeding and being able to help if problems arise with breastfeeding.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

This is excellent news - do you mind sharing your success stories? I get discouraged.

There are changes on a local level in hospitals/with individual doctors, but as far as the formula companies go, I feel like it is a losing battle. We get hosptials to stop giving out formula and the nurses sneak it into women as they leave ('watching out for them' - brainwashed by formula companies who sponser infant feeding conferences/workshops) or moms get free cooler bags from Nestle or Enfamil in the mail ('it's OK, I use them for breastmilk only' - giving free advertising to the company and normalising formula, plus there is always that can if you need it...). We get community events to voluntarily stick to the Code and then mothers get bombarded with fliers and coupons for free formula when they sign up for maternity gear.

I know that we need to keep going a step at a time (thanks for the reminder ) - I just wish our politicians had the forsight and courage to sign the Code.

They're small victories, but I approached 3 local grocery stores and informed them that advertising formula in their fliers was against WHO code. 2 of those 3 stopped advertising it in their fliers. Granted, these were not big chains, but I still count them as victories .

A local hospital (I was on their BFI committee) is working to get rid of their formula contract. This is hard, but already formula is under lock and key. No freebies are given out freely even to formula feeding moms. They have it on hand in the hospital and they will give it out upon request but only after 3 different forms are filled out and the parents clearly request it. The pharmacy no longer uses any growth charts, info, literature with formula company names on it. Cereal samples are permitted, but nothing even remotely resembling formula is allowed. No formula company sponsering of anything is allowed anymore. Nurses (understandably) hate this because formula company money can be used for good too. It's a downward spiral though.

No images of bottles on any literature. Pacifiers are ok.


Anyhow, small victories, baby steps, but solid progress.

It is so damn easy to get discouraged. Formula companies (you are so right about them) have zero morality. They care about nothing but their bottom line. They're pervasive and sneaky and will eat away at your morale. There are 2 IBCLCs on staff at the hospital I used to volunteer at and there is a huge level of burnout. The senior LC is just awesome though. She encouraged us when we got discouraged and reminded us that every child who left that hospital still breastfeeding was a victory. Last year they had a 93% initiation rate and 70% of those babies were still breastfeeding at 6 months. That is huge.

Overall, I just find that people are more receptive and willing to accomodate breastfeeding issues than they were even just 5 years ago.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by yoginisarah

Being vegan, I don't think formula should exist for our consumption at all. Every drop of cow's milk a human drinks was meant for a mama cow to be able to breastfeed her calf. Shouldn't a lactivist be pro-breastfeeding for all mammals?
However, I do think that non-animal based formulas should exist and that people should be allowed to choose. I do think though that doctors should do a much better job promoting the benefits of breastfeeding and being able to help if problems arise with breastfeeding.

What would you suggest be used rather than cow's milk? Soy is controversial due to the phytoestrogens and is very allergenic. More so on average than even cow's milk. Wheat and corn based formulas are also more allergenic and most children who are sensitive to soy will become sensitive to these as well. Elemental formulas tend to be a last resort and are not well tolerated by the kidney and liver and they just taste foul. Bottom line: if you can't use your own milk, the milk of another mammal is best. It would be great if this could come from another human mother, but that's just not always possible.

Also, soy, wheat, corn, etc. are not without their own environmental impact.

[the_lissa]

Yeah that is a horrible idea.