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How old is TOO old for a "car seat"? - Page 2

post #21 of 65
[QUOTE=bobandjess99;12254344]From a safety perspective, there isn't any "too old" really. There is a "too big", but that really doesnt correlate with age. If the child is so big as to not be able to fit into a booster, and the seat belt fits correctly without one, and the 5 step test is passed, then certainly not using one is the most appropriate thing to do.

In terms of trying to mesh physical and emotional safety..that can be hard.

Unfortunately, your child is REALLY, REALLY small. I'm assuming this is just the way she has always been, and from a genetics standpoint, she is destined to be a very petite adult? To be honest....she will likely NEED a booster for a long time.
Have you tested her (in private at home of course) in your vehicle? How well does she fit into the seat belt in her hbb, versus a backless, vs just the seatbelt?? At that size/height, i can not imagine the belts, even if they are adjustable, even come close to fitting. I know as a barely 5 ft tall woman, the vast majority of belts do not fit me correctly, and I've got a FOOT on her.
I would just try it out. If using a backless booster allows her to fit correctly into the belt, then i would probably feel okay using it. no wait...i'm going to take that back, because that is not true. I would "personally" not at all feel okay using a backless booster for "my" child. I would feel okay, as a tech, okaying "another parent" to use a backless booster for "their" child, in this situation. *MY* child will be harnessed at that size, regardless of age.[/QUOTE]

really? (not being snarky here, just truly incredulous) even at 13? 15? 17?
post #22 of 65
i'm not the pp you are asking, but yes i would. i will keep my children harnessed to the very last moment i can safely do so. then in a belt positioning booster as long as they safely can. and only when they pass the 5 step test will they sit without a booster. in any/every car they ride in. my childrens safety is more important to me than their popularity with their peers. i'd rather have an alive unpopular child than a dead one.
post #23 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyMamaBear View Post
i'm not the pp you are asking, but yes i would. i will keep my children harnessed to the very last moment i can safely do so. then in a belt positioning booster as long as they safely can. and only when they pass the 5 step test will they sit without a booster. in any/every car they ride in. my childrens safety is more important to me than their popularity with their peers. i'd rather have an alive unpopular child than a dead one.
wow. I think it's easy to think you'll do something with a child (teen) before you actually have a teen. I'd be really disappointed in parent that would force a teen to use a booster seat. Risk vs. benefits, people. Cars are dangerous. Even in a booster seat. Pleas don't humiliate your older child in that way.
post #24 of 65
Oh, SpringRain, my heart goes out to you! I'm in the same boat with my teeny-tiny ones. Actually, I have a thread in here about how long to keep my LOs in their seats.

My DD is in 4th grade and still in a HBB. She just hit 50 lbs. and is 51". DS is in 2nd grade and in a HBB. He's only 42 lbs. and 46" (he also has delayed development, Dyspraxia, etc.). Thankfully, neither of them have been on the receiving end of any taunts. I doubt their friends even now they ride in boosters, our car is tinted and high (it's an SUV), so they can't really see anyway. I know a few of their friends are in boosters too, though. Also, mine don't care. They know it's a rule and aren't even interested in riding w/o them yet. I know the time will come, though.
post #25 of 65
well, okay, you got me. from a genetics standpoint, my dd will be as large as the OP's probably at age 6 or so..not 13 or whatever. so it's a fairly moot question. to be completely honest, it is never truly possible, I do not believe, to make a decision about a situation that you are not personally in. So it is possible, that at some point, I will find myself in a similar situation and find myself making choices that right now, are not the ones i *think* I would make. I absolutely allow for that. I know the OP said she too was committed to CPS, and had planned to keep her kids as safe as possible as long as possible, so there you go.
however, right now, my plan is to harness both kids until age 8 if possible, and given the available seats on the market and my children's sizes, it is probably a realistic goal. And to booster for as long after that as necesary, in a HBB, because of the additional side impact protection they provide.

My ds, unlike dd, is very, very tiny. I can see him easily still Rfing at age 4+ and being harnessed until 10+, if he follows a similar growth pattern to his older brothers and given his current size.

From a medical standpoint, it is going to be virtually impossible for a child over 10 yrs of age to be as small as the OPs child. Her child is at the very bottom percentiles for size at age 8, and at age 10, the size in question is literally off the charts. So only a very negligible number of parents will ever even have to address the issue. Yes, if my child were that size at age 10, I woudl still harness. Acxtually, up until age 12, I would harness. At that point, the musculature and skeleton is approximately as strong as an adults, and I would feel comfortable letting my own extremely small child out of a harness, even if they were the size of the OP's child - but again, that possibiltiy is so remote as to be virtually impossible.

My 11 year old, 70 lb, 56 inch stepson uses a HBB in my car with no problems whatsoever. I don't think it has ever occurred to him to complain about it. (cuz trust me, the stepkids hate me most of the time and complain they would!!)

Also, to be honest..i'm sort of a $itch. I'd have no problems teaching my kids to use smart-butt remarks, and using them myself. And bratty, mean kids?? Oh yes, they'd be told about themselves.
post #26 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
wow. I think it's easy to think you'll do something with a child (teen) before you actually have a teen. I'd be really disappointed in parent that would force a teen to use a booster seat. Risk vs. benefits, people. Cars are dangerous. Even in a booster seat. Pleas don't humiliate your older child in that way.
never mind, i dont want to risk being banned for coming across as rude.
post #27 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandjess99 View Post
well, okay, you got me. from a genetics standpoint, my dd will be as large as the OP's probably at age 6 or so..not 13 or whatever. so it's a fairly moot question. to be completely honest, it is never truly possible, I do not believe, to make a decision about a situation that you are not personally in. So it is possible, that at some point, I will find myself in a similar situation and find myself making choices that right now, are not the ones i *think* I would make. I absolutely allow for that. I know the OP said she too was committed to CPS, and had planned to keep her kids as safe as possible as long as possible, so there you go.
however, right now, my plan is to harness both kids until age 8 if possible, and given the available seats on the market and my children's sizes, it is probably a realistic goal. And to booster for as long after that as necesary, in a HBB, because of the additional side impact protection they provide.

My ds, unlike dd, is very, very tiny. I can see him easily still Rfing at age 4+ and being harnessed until 10+, if he follows a similar growth pattern to his older brothers and given his current size.

From a medical standpoint, it is going to be virtually impossible for a child over 10 yrs of age to be as small as the OPs child. Her child is at the very bottom percentiles for size at age 8, and at age 10, the size in question is literally off the charts. So only a very negligible number of parents will ever even have to address the issue. Yes, if my child were that size at age 10, I woudl still harness. Acxtually, up until age 12, I would harness. At that point, the musculature and skeleton is approximately as strong as an adults, and I would feel comfortable letting my own extremely small child out of a harness, even if they were the size of the OP's child - but again, that possibiltiy is so remote as to be virtually impossible.

My 11 year old, 70 lb, 56 inch stepson uses a HBB in my car with no problems whatsoever. I don't think it has ever occurred to him to complain about it. (cuz trust me, the stepkids hate me most of the time and complain they would!!)

Also, to be honest..i'm sort of a $itch. I'd have no problems teaching my kids to use smart-butt remarks, and using them myself. And bratty, mean kids?? Oh yes, they'd be told about themselves.

thank you, jess,m, for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate your honesty and the info about a 12 year olds musculature.

Peace.
post #28 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
wow. I think it's easy to think you'll do something with a child (teen) before you actually have a teen. I'd be really disappointed in parent that would force a teen to use a booster seat. Risk vs. benefits, people. Cars are dangerous. Even in a booster seat. Pleas don't humiliate your older child in that way.
children are humiliated by their parents everyday in many ways, from the clothes the parents wears, to their hairstyle, to giving hugs and kisses at dropoff, etc, i think if my children are humiliated by riding as safe as they possibly can in the car, regardless of how everyone else rides, then i havent done my job properly in teaching them about my golden rule, which is "what is right isnt always popular, and what is popular isnt always right."
i really would absolutely NOT put my child in a less safe situation in the car to keep them from being teased. absolutely not.
like i said before i would rather have an alive unpopular child, than a dead one. for ME, safety does not get compromised for feelings. no ifs ands or buts about it.
post #29 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by vbactivist View Post
wow. I think it's easy to think you'll do something with a child (teen) before you actually have a teen. I'd be really disappointed in parent that would force a teen to use a booster seat. Risk vs. benefits, people. Cars are dangerous. Even in a booster seat. Pleas don't humiliate your older child in that way.
Well, it's not just about "humiliating" them. I'm also a shorter woman, and I would use a booster in a heartbeat. (if they made one that would be safe at my weight) Ask that friend of yours who is 4'8" and I bet she'd say the same thing. It's really uncomfortable to ride in a car with the seatbelt digging into your neck. It's actually MORE COMFORTABLE to ride if the seatbelt is adjusted for your height. So if your teen is even halfways reasonable, (and I'll admit not all are) it shouldn't be hard to convince them. My bff's mother is tiny... and has to sit on a cushion to see over the dash when she drives. Wouldn't it be nicer if she had a booster that would also help adjust the seatbelt? (And would be safer in a crash?)

OP, I would suggest your daughter explain it from a comfort point of view. "The seatbelt really digs into my neck if I don't use the booster. It's like my own personal recliner in the car, cuz it's soooo comfy!"
post #30 of 65
OP, my daughter is the same size & age as yours, although I think she may be a couple of inches taller by now - same weight exactly! And in the same HBB.

We do homeschool, so she doesn't get asked very often, but when she or I is asked, we explain that she's still small and doesn't weight much, so the booster is necessary. So far, that has pretty much quieted people though I'm sure some of the moms I know talk about it behind my back.

As far as how old... well, we are lucky in that my aunt still has my 9 yo 4th grade cousin in a HBB, so dd doesn't think that using one through age 9 is odd. So far she states her intention to keep using a booster "until she outgrows it" but we'll see. Dh have an informal agreement to re-evaluate at either 10 or 11, depending on her growth pattern between now and then.
post #31 of 65
Gosh, doesn't the law in most states require kids stay in a booster til about 4'9" regardless of age anyway?

I would most certainly keep my child in a booster. At her size, I would be more comfortable with the hbb. DS is still in a REgent at 48in and 50lbs, 6 years old. I honestly don't know how long I'll keep in the 5pt, but he will most definitely be in a HBB until he no longer needs it.

OP, it's a decision you'll have to make about the type of booster. I wouldn't let her ride without one bc the results could be completely devastating.

Read all the pages. http://www.thecarseatlady.com/booste...ter_seats.html
post #32 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Gosh, doesn't the law in most states require kids stay in a booster til about 4'9" regardless of age anyway?
I thought it was 4'9" AND 8, so if you're 10 and 4'9", you have to be in a seat, but for my daughter, who will hit 4'9" before 8, she'll have to be at least 8 even though she'll be big enough.
post #33 of 65
I see myself in this situation down the road. My dd is at the bottom of the charts, and always has been. It is my goal, my ideal, to teach dd to rise above peer pressure, especially when safety is involved. If I teach her that it is acceptable to compromise her safety now for the sake of social acceptance, will she think it is okay to do the same when she is a teenager? I would so much rather her have an understanding of WHY these safety seats are important, what they do, what happens without one. If that means watching some crash test videos with her, then so be it.

When I think about car seat safety, and why my DD is STILL rear-facing at 2.5, and will probably be harnessed at 8, 9, 10 years old... and in a booster beyond that... it is because I have the knowledge. I have the information as to why this is important. Because from what I have seen, it is. Car accidents are the #1 killer of kids in the US, and I will do whatever I can to protect my child from that. I know that some accidents are fatal no matter what precautions we take. But if, heaven forbid, we get in one of those accidents, I want to be able to say that I did do EVERYTHING I could to protect her. Because I know that I could not live with myself if I knew that I had compromised on her safety. That is where I am with it. I think an 8 year old could probably understand that.
post #34 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Gosh, doesn't the law in most states require kids stay in a booster til about 4'9" regardless of age anyway?
I live in Alaska which has VERY lax car seat laws so legalities are not an issue in this decision. I wish they did have more strict laws though. Then a lot of my dd's peers would also still be properly restrained and the teasing would lessen.

Quote:
Alaska law says that a driver may not transport children under 16 in a motor vehicle unless the child is properly secured according to state child passenger safety law. Children under age 4 must be properly secured in a federally approved car seat or booster car seat. For children over age 4 but under age 16, Alaska state law requires that the child be properly secured in a vehicle seat belt or federally approved car seat or booster seat, whichever is appropriate for the particular child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
OP, it's a decision you'll have to make about the type of booster. I wouldn't let her ride without one bc the results could be completely devastating.

Read all the pages. http://www.thecarseatlady.com/booste...ter_seats.html
We have NEVER considered having her in just an adult seat belt. The issue in question was, considering the social pressures, would a backless booster be a safe choice for my dd.

Not long ago I was one of the parents who said that my child would be in a 5 point harness until she reached the max weight limit... having a child who is old enough to talk with you about their feelings and express their concerns and desires can change how you assess the risks/benefits ratio. BELIEVE ME!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyMamaBear View Post
i would rather have an alive unpopular child, than a dead one
Helpful. Yes, I would rather have a popular dead child! :

For those who have said that I should be teaching my daughter to stand up to social pressure, let me just ask if you have ever had a child who was being bullied. Yes we are addressing the issue in many ways, including building our daughters self esteem in any way we can. It's not always as cut and dry as just telling them to "not care what other people think." With a child that is prone to depression anyway, a cycle of teasing and bulling can lead to very negative things like suicide... not a path I want to travel down with my daughter!

I'm believe in balancing the risks and benefits of any situation and deciding on the best course of action from there. I appreciate all of the input and will take what has been said into consideration when we decide what is best here. For now, we are comfortable with keeping her in the HBB and addressing the teasing in other ways. This is where I'm very thankful she is in a small charter school and I know all 3 teachers and a lot of the parents VERY well! Not quite the same as homeschool but much better than it could be.
post #35 of 65
Is your dd at the Community Charter School? We live just up the hill and often see them coming and going.
post #36 of 65
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEAK's Mom View Post
Is your dd at the Community Charter School? We live just up the hill and often see them coming and going.
Yup! Love it!!
post #37 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringRain View Post
My oldest daughter is 8, 47lbs and 48" tall. ...
What do you think?
She sounds like my second DD. She's 8, 46 lbs, and 45" tall. She's in a high backed booster, and will stay in one for a while. Her older sister still is in a low backed booster--she turns 10 in October and is 65 lbs, 4'4" tall. We use the low backed booster for our older daughter for some simple reasons:

*we only have one other high backed booster not in use (6 year old DS has one in our minivan), and we want to keep it in our other car
*occassionally an adult will ride between the two girls--shoulder/head room gets crowded for that adult if there are two high backed boosters there.

I'm sorry that your DD is getting teased. I guess my kids friends don't really know what kind of seats they are in because our minivan has tinted windows. But I would not take my kids out of boosters over that--I'd explain to them why the boosters are important.

Plotting out on the growth charts, I expect my younger DD to top out her height at 4'8" tall. My sister is 4'8" and we had a great grandmother who was 4'9", so this is hardly a surprising height for us. I'm not sure when I'll move her out of the booster--but certainly her age will be in the double digits.

Hugs!

Jenn
post #38 of 65
SpringRain, i never said that you would prefer a dead popular child.
nor did i imply that.
i said *I* would rather have an alive unpopular child than a dead child.
for ME its no question at all. if i had small children i would keep them harnessed as long as possible, and only after growing out of the harness would we move to a hbb, and only if they topped out of the height and weight for the hbb would we move on to a low back, and only after they passed the 5 step test would they ever be allowed to be in just the car seatbelt alone with no seat.. because for ME in MY family safety is much more improtant.
this is coming from someone who was bullied every day in many ways from the first day of kindergarten all the way til my last day of school.
children survive even the most intense bullying, with the help of their parents, counselors, and friends who are kind and understanding.
children dont always survive crashes in innappropriate safety restraints.
post #39 of 65
Go for the backless! Really, as I've said before we'd all be safer riding in 5 pt harnesses, but how many of y'all have them for yourselves? You can buy them aftermarket and have them installed in your vehicle, y'know.

My dd1 is 7.5 and about the size of OP's dd. We just switched her over to a backless. She went on a field trip in another parent's car and was thrilled to have the back off her booster. It's a Graco, so we can take the back off and put it back on when we want to. We may put the back back on for sleeping comfort on long trips. We do have a vehicle that has side curtain airbags and that helps me feel better, but it is probably not the most absolute safest vehicle ever made. (It's a VW Golf ftr.) If you get t-boned by a semi not sure a tank would help, y'know?

You take some chances in life. Just riding in a car is a big chance, so is crossing the street or going swimming or taking a bath. Take some reasonable precautions and move on.

IMO, the OP's daughter is not that small, either. There are plenty of kids in that range in my daughter's class and amongst her friends. I think dd1 weighs about 45lbs and is probably about 47 inches tall. She doesn't seem especially petite compared to her classmates although she probably is more slender than quite a few of them. I was 42lbs in the second grade and I am a completely medium grown-up (5'5", 130lbs).

In our state (NC) the law is 80lbs or 8yrs old. Most all of the kids in her class are in no back boosters. There are a few who are really big and probably don't use boosters at all and at least one pretty petite girl, but she uses the built in booster in her van.

So that's my 2¢.
post #40 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepyMamaBear View Post
SpringRain, i never said that you would prefer a dead popular child.
nor did i imply that.
i said *I* would rather have an alive unpopular child than a dead child.
for ME its no question at all. if i had small children i would keep them harnessed as long as possible, and only after growing out of the harness would we move to a hbb, and only if they topped out of the height and weight for the hbb would we move on to a low back, and only after they passed the 5 step test would they ever be allowed to be in just the car seatbelt alone with no seat.. because for ME in MY family safety is much more improtant.
this is coming from someone who was bullied every day in many ways from the first day of kindergarten all the way til my last day of school.
children survive even the most intense bullying, with the help of their parents, counselors, and friends who are kind and understanding.
children dont always survive crashes in innappropriate safety restraints.
really? You've never heard of a kid committing suicide because of bullying?

I am blown away by how some of you claim you would handle this situation with a teenager. Thankfully it won't be an issue for most of your kids
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