*Update* School informing all parents of our choice not to Vax? (x-posted in fyt)

[Panthira]

We don't vaccinate, and I filled out a waiver at my 2 yr old's play school. This isn't the first time I've filled out waivers for my kids, however it's the first time we received a slip of paper informing everyone at the school that there is a child there without vaxes. The paper was put into every parent's cubby, and it did not say the child's name, but I felt that it was strange and troublesome.

I feel rather uncomfortable with other parents knowing our personal medical information like that, even though my kid's name wasn't on the slip of paper, I'm pretty sure everyone can guess who the "offender" is. It's not like I want to hide our beliefs, but I also think they are personal. Is this really a state law that every one in the school must be informed? I have been very upset about this, and yet I'm not sure why I'm so upset.

Here is a copy of the notice with the school name and address cropped out. My ds started a week late, and he was the last child registered. This notice appeared in the cubbies about 2 days after he started.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Humm since they didnt mention your ds by name I dont know if that makes it illegal or not. I know nothing like that has never happened at dd's school.

I cant help but think that by doing this they are trying to stir up trouble in some way. You know that someone is going to know someone who works at the school who will be more than happy to let it slip exactly which kids are not vaxed.

[grisandole]

I'm in CA and have never heard of that....weird! Did you google CA daycare laws? If it's a law, fine, but if not....I'd be upset. I've only done the waiver with public school, and they most certainly do not send out that form.

[PajamaMama]

That stinks. What kind of school is it? (public or private) By the way, what the heck is an 'exection'? That's what the letter says someone has...

[bellee]

I'm still clueless as to why people care. I mean, if their kids are vaxed, it not like an unvaxed kid is going to get them sick if said kid comes down with the measles ya know?

[ErinsJuneBug]

I would absolutly insist on having the school hand out a letter each time a child in the class recieves a live virus, or each time a parent has a new baby "There is a child in this class who has a new sibling that will not be fully vaccinated for the next 5 years"

Have you heard any talk?

[Pariah]

Wow. I've never heard of that happening. I would be really upset!

[nwmamas]

Here's the CA code on vaxes:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...=120325-120380

No big surprise, there's nothing there about how "in accordance with law" they have to inform parents of the unvaxed in their midst. I'd ask for the statute in writing.

I'm guessing what they did is not a violation of any laws since they don't identify your dc, and since you get to stay in school, no civil damages have been done (thus far). But they leave a bad taste in my mouth. How icky. I'd ask them to disclose how many teachers are up to date. Blech.

[Novella]

I wouldn't be so quick to say that what they did was not illegal simply because they didn't name the child.

An extreme comparison, I'll grant, but one that comes to mind: Courts of law sometimes convict people of murder even when no body has been found. More difficult, yes. But still happens.

If you were inclined to pursue this legally, I would think many other factors would be considered in whether it would be considered reasonable for other parents to identify that it was your child under discussion, even though no name was used: size of class, size of community, dates of child's start versus notice (as you've mentioned), how aware other parents were that a new child had joined the class at that time, etc.

Even if your child has been allowed to stay in the class, it doesn't mean that the notice hasn't resulted in a slight on character - particularly if parents in that community generally believe that full vaccination is the only "right" thing to do.

I wouldn't attempt to sue them, but I would:
- Ask for the statute in writing
- Ask for disclosure on the booster status of all adult staff members
- Ask that they implement a policy disclosing to other parents about any attendee with partially-vaccinated children
- Ask for a written apology (to you) and a notice to all parents that refutes their earlier notice: pointing out that their earlier action is not supported by statute and that California law upholds the right of parents to choose to refuse vaccinations.
- Take this up the chain of command to their non-profit board, executive director, daycare licensing body. . . whatever applies.

Let us know what follows, if anything!

[ErinsJuneBug]

Novella is right - even though they didnt SAY who the child was, duh your kid joins the class and the same day a notice gets sent out. I would be soooo P-O'd

[nwmamas]

I completely agree with everything Novela said. I was simply pointing out that CA statute doesn't require any such action like the letter says it does. Not that I can find, anyhoo, so you should ask them to do the work to produce this mystery law. Since the school ostensibly covers its butt with privacy laws (what is that, FERPA?) you'd seriously have to wait it out and prove that your kid was not truly anonymous and if there was any fallout that impacts your family to deal with it legally. Not that you'd want the trouble and expense.

But basically what I meant was that, since the trouble and expense are beyond the means of most parents, you are behind the 8-ball when dealing with the school. You can ask for all the disclosure you can, but I'm guessing it'll just be frustrating. Ugh. Why do they do stuff like that?

I agree they're trying to stir up trouble. Maybe you can find a sympathetic person in the office to help you resolve it? My guess is whoever invented that form is not gunna be an ally.

[peainthepod]

If there is no state statute requiring them to notify the other parents of unvaccinated children in the class (which seems very likely, IMHO), then this is bullying, plain and simple. Someone has a pro-vaccine agenda and is taking it out on you and your kid. I would ask for the statute in writing and, when they couldn't produce one, pull my kid out of that school and send a letter of complaint to the state licensing agency as well as the school director.

It might sound extreme but I would no longer be able to trust that a place like that would have my child's best interests in mind. I would wonder if he was being treated differently when I wasn't there.

Ugh, so sorry this is happening to you.

[Livviesmom0207]

Just my .02 but it seems like someone created that form in haste...hence "exection". I agree that this was intended to make waves.

[Turquesa]

Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug

I would absolutly insist on having the school hand out a letter each time a child in the class recieves a live virus, or each time a parent has a new baby "There is a child in this class who has a new sibling that will not be fully vaccinated for the next 5 years"

I also like the PPs idea of demanding to know the booster status of adults.

If they're going to play this game with the OP, then they need to take it to its logical conclusions, as outlined by these ideas.

[Panthira]

Thank you for the responses. My plan of action is this: Ask for the law where it shows this is required.
If they can produce no law, which I don't believe they can from everything I've read, then I think the ideas listed above are excellent. I have no plan at this time to fight anyone legally, however I will stand up and call them out. If I don't do it, then they will think they can get away with things like that.

[EVC]

If there is no state statute requiring them to notify the other parents of unvaccinated children in the class (which seems very likely, IMHO), then this is bullying, plain and simple.

Well, I'll preface by saying that I don't know what the law actually says...

However, my unvax'ed dd is in a daycare/pre-school program in CA and we have submitted an exemption (obviously). NO such notice has EVER been sent out to parents and we've been dutifully filing our exemption with the admin every fall for over two years. NOT ONCE was such a notice sent out.

Now, this daycare is VERY "by the book" in terms of compliance with all relevent rules and regulations for daycare/pre-school in CA state. I have had numerous problems with paperwork I've submitted for things that I didn't fill out EXACTLY right. That are REALLY into the "dot every i, cross every t" mentality.

So if our daycare isn't sending out notices, that tells me that it is HIGHLY unlikely that there is any state law stating that they are required to do so.

Again, not knowing the wording of the law myself, my inclination is to call BS on them.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by Panthira

We don't vaccinate, and I filled out a waiver at my 2 yr old's play school. This isn't the first time I've filled out waivers for my kids, however it's the first time we received a slip of paper informing everyone at the school that there is a child there without vaxes. The paper was put into every parent's cubby, and it did not say the child's name, but I felt that it was strange and troublesome.

I feel rather uncomfortable with other parents knowing our personal medical information like that, even though my kid's name wasn't on the slip of paper, I'm pretty sure everyone can guess who the "offender" is. It's not like I want to hide our beliefs, but I also think they are personal. Is this really a state law that every one in the school must be informed? I have been very upset about this, and yet I'm not sure why I'm so upset.

Here is a copy of the notice with the school name and address cropped out. My ds started a week late, and he was the last child registered. This notice appeared in the cubbies about 2 days after he started.

I saw the notice you linked...

What state requirement?

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by EVC

So if our daycare isn't sending out notices, that tells me that it is HIGHLY unlikely that there is any state law stating that they are required to do so.

Again, not knowing the wording of the law myself, my inclination is to call BS on them.

My thought as well. I sincerely doubt such a statute exists as it seems to me it would tread into a dangerous gray area with regard to HIPAA.

[Panthira]

Ah yes, HIPAA maybe.
http://aspe.hhs.gov/admnsimp/pl104191.htm

"(4) HEALTH INFORMATION.--The term 'health information' means any information, whether oral or recorded in any form or medium, that--

"(A) is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, public health authority, employer, life insurer, school or university, or health care clearinghouse; and

"(B) relates to the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of an individual, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual.

"(6) INDIVIDUALLY IDENTIFIABLE HEALTH INFORMATION.--The term 'individually identifiable health information' means any information, including demographic information collected from an individual, that--

"(A) is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, employer, or health care clearinghouse; and

"(B) relates to the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of an individual, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual, and--

"(i) identifies the individual; or

"(ii) with respect to which there is a reasonable basis to believe that the information can be used to identify the individual

And if I really want to scare them:

"WRONGFUL DISCLOSURE OF INDIVIDUALLY IDENTIFIABLE HEALTH INFORMATION

"SEC. 1177. (a) OFFENSE.--A person who knowingly and in violation of this part--

"(1) uses or causes to be used a unique health identifier;

"(2) obtains individually identifiable health information relating to an individual; or

"(3) discloses individually identifiable health information to another person,

shall be punished as provided in subsection (b).

"(b) PENALTIES.--A person described in subsection (a) shall--

"(1) be fined not more than $50,000, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both;

"(2) if the offense is committed under false pretenses, be fined not more than $100,000, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both; and

"(3) if the offense is committed with intent to sell, transfer, or use individually identifiable health information for commercial advantage, personal gain, or malicious harm, be fined not more than $250,000, imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

[Blu Razzberri]

Originally Posted by PajamaMama

...what the heck is an 'exection'?...

(I'm not sure if that was a joke, or a serious question, but..) The word "exection" does not exist. I agree that the form was probably thrown together (in a fit of rage..? How dare you defy the manufactured nature by not vax'ing!).

Originally Posted by peainthepod

...this is bullying, plain and simple....

: And I think you should stand up for yourself. Hey, everyone knows it was you anyways, so take it as an opportunity to explain why (a teaching opportunity) and at the same time, to let them know that while you're not shy to say that you don't vaccinate and why; that you still think it was in poor taste of the school to put forth that information in an obvious way without your consent; thus singling out your child/ren. Urge them to defend this action by providing exact legal information that requires a notice like this, or to apologize if they can't.