Atheist Mamas... WWYD?

[Sisyphus]

My FIL has been diagnosed with terminal cancer. They are doing treatment even though all it's going to do is make him miserable... not my choice, but hey... I'm not them. MIL threw down the gauntlet to me last week in email telling me to not tell my kids that FIL will die because they believe that god will miraculously cure him no matter what and positive thinking is what they need. She also said that if the kids were to see MIL and FIL that she felt it necessary to explain to them about their belief in god, heaven, etc.

I wrote back and told her that she could talk to them about anything she felt was pertinent, but don't be surprised if they ask you questions about it. I also explained that dh and I have taught and modeled tolerance of all beliefs to them and that they understand that not all people (especially MIL and FIL) believe (or not LOL) what we do.

So, today we get postcards from them in the mail asking MY CHILDREN to PRAY for Pa.

OK, to me, that is crossing the line. Don't go asking my 5 and 8 year old sons to PRAY when you KNOW we are raising them as atheists. Just don't go there.

So, I'm thinking that I will send them an email that simply says:

Hi MIL and FIL!!

We got your postcards yesterday and the boys loved the pictures of bald eagles and polar bears!! I would ask though, that in the future, you not petition them to pray for Pa. We hold him (and YOU!) in positive thoughts every day, but as we don't believe in a god at all (we are ATHEISTS, you know that) we don't believe in prayer at. all.

I understand your intentions. However, I must ask that you respect OUR beliefs just as much as we respect yours. We don't ask you to NOT pray around us - even in our own house. Please don't ask our small children to take part in something that is part of YOUR tradition and not ours.

Thanks. We do love you and send positive energy to you always!

Me and DH

To me, it's just over the top to ask our kids (who can READ, so they probably assumed dh and I wouldn't be reading the postcards!) to PRAY when they KNOW we are atheist. Oh, and don't say that it's DH's place to reprimand them, I know that and he does too, but he's not going to do so - he just isn't.. yeah, roll your eyes...I am tired of rolling mine LOL. I feel like I can't let this one slide because it's just her way of overstepping the boundary I JUST set about religion. If I let this slide, she will then expect them to be farking altar boys at the funeral. Seriously.

[lolar2]

Well, I'm not exactly an atheist-- more an atheist-leaning agnostic UU, but I can tell you what I would do. I would take this as a grieving behavior. I would tell the kids something like, "We don't pray in this family, but Grandma doesn't understand that right now because she is so sad about Grandpa dying soon [I certainly wouldn't hide that], and she doesn't want to believe it because she loves him, and she will miss him when he dies. Grandma would appreciate it if you didn't talk to them about Grandpa dying right now, because she isn't ready for that." Then I would have them make some sort of "I love you" card or gift for their grandfather.

I wouldn't say anything to the MIL right now.

My grandfather was severely ill when I was eight years old and my sister was six, to the point where we expected him to die, and my grandmother reacted in some pretty whacked-out ways. The praying thing wasn't an issue, since my parents do pray and don't have a problem with it, but there were other things, yikes, some really nasty horrible things my grandmother said to all of us. What I wrote above is how my parents handled it, and I think they did the right thing. (As it happened, my grandfather recovered and lived for another fifteen years, but he was super-lucky.)

ETA: I really do understand how awful your MIL's behavior is. My grandmother was AWFUL, AWFUL, AWFUL at the time I mentioned, I promise, but people pre-grieving a spouse get the benefit of the doubt IMO. It's just easier that way, honestly, because they can't be argued with nor persuaded anyhow until they become more rational.

[orangebird]

I am a really strict atheist, but in a time of grief like that I might let it fly might under the radar. I obviously wouldn't ask my kids to pray in any way, but wouldn't confront the family member unless they got obnoxious or pressuring. I would try to keep peace as much as tolerable.

I do say this with baggage. My mother is Jewish, and her brother somehow turned neonazi and when my grandmother died there was so much drama. Like he wouldn't even let my mom (a jew) into the house (god forbid!) as my mor mor (grandmother lay dying) and so my mother had to sneak in and around the country to visit her keeping track of his comings and goings, so as not to upset my GM. It was so much drama.

I would not concede to prayer, personally, but I would not let the death of a loved one be the time to get into it, so to speak.

When my father died, there was big drama, he wanted to be cremated, and some of the friends that visited us at shiva were not knowledgeable about certain things (my dads good friend at the time of death and boss) brought a big beautiful bouquet of flowers. My uncle was an ass, but my aunt and mom and our side were just happy to have people visit and talk about him and share stories of love.

I am a big loudmouth pain in the ass, and up front about my atheism. But when people are sick and dying/dead everyone has to grieve in the way they know. It really a difficult time and I wish you all the best.

I wish I knew something better to say.

[mamacita angelica]

i wouldn't send that email, personally. good thoughts ARE prayers, imho. i know her intention was for you to pray to god for intervention, but this is not your way. if she asked you directly, i would say, we always keep you in our good thoughts and hope grandpa will recover. but if you begin a war over this, it probably will feel like the opposite of good thoughts to her during a hard time. i know this seems like she is challenging your beliefs right now, but (i am hesitant to say this, because i would be frustrated too [i got through the same crap from my mil]) i think this is one of those times where you should be the bigger person about this topic and let it go. if she asks your children to be altar boys, then i would send a meaner email than that one.

good luck. this is going to be a hard time.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

My FIL has been diagnosed with terminal cancer. They are doing treatment even though all it's going to do is make him miserable... not my choice, but hey... I'm not them. MIL threw down the gauntlet to me last week in email telling me to not tell my kids that FIL will die because they believe that god will miraculously cure him no matter what and positive thinking is what they need. She also said that if the kids were to see MIL and FIL that she felt it necessary to explain to them about their belief in god, heaven, etc.

I wrote back and told her that she could talk to them about anything she felt was pertinent, but don't be surprised if they ask you questions about it. I also explained that dh and I have taught and modeled tolerance of all beliefs to them and that they understand that not all people (especially MIL and FIL) believe (or not LOL) what we do.

So, today we get postcards from them in the mail asking MY CHILDREN to PRAY for Pa.

OK, to me, that is crossing the line. Don't go asking my 5 and 8 year old sons to PRAY when you KNOW we are raising them as atheists. Just don't go there.

So, I'm thinking that I will send them an email that simply says:

Hi MIL and FIL!!

We got your postcards yesterday and the boys loved the pictures of bald eagles and polar bears!! I would ask though, that in the future, you not petition them to pray for Pa. We hold him (and YOU!) in positive thoughts every day, but as we don't believe in a god at all (we are ATHEISTS, you know that) we don't believe in prayer at. all.

I understand your intentions. However, I must ask that you respect OUR beliefs just as much as we respect yours. We don't ask you to NOT pray around us - even in our own house. Please don't ask our small children to take part in something that is part of YOUR tradition and not ours.

Thanks. We do love you and send positive energy to you always!

Me and DH

To me, it's just over the top to ask our kids (who can READ, so they probably assumed dh and I wouldn't be reading the postcards!) to PRAY when they KNOW we are atheist. Oh, and don't say that it's DH's place to reprimand them, I know that and he does too, but he's not going to do so - he just isn't.. yeah, roll your eyes...I am tired of rolling mine LOL. I feel like I can't let this one slide because it's just her way of overstepping the boundary I JUST set about religion. If I let this slide, she will then expect them to be farking altar boys at the funeral. Seriously.

...not an aethiest but I love yours posts and username and just simply, given the gravity of the situation could not respond. And I am torn because I don't want to step in uninvited but I do have an opinion that I think is valuable because I, too, have been in this situation many times but not in your exact situation.

First of all, sorry you have to deal with this.

I really admire your kindness and grace with their letter. Your response was honest and loving. I think with this second layer (i.e. prayer request in postcard) , I'd talk with their son, your dh, and see what he'd want to do about it. They are his parents and in a sense, this might need to be his battle to fight with them. You *may* be the scapegoat or the target of their disrespecting your collective decision on how to raise your children. And fwiw, I agree, asking your children in postcards to pray seems pointed and disrespectful and something else that I won't put into words...but it may not be wise to respond to it right now. I'd see what DH feels and thinks about it and any response would need to freely be from dh to let son and parents talk about this. But that's just me and based on my own experience.

I like how orangebird put it, too.

[Cherry Alive]

I'm agnostic with a Buddhist influence, and much of my family and ILs are Mormon and Catholic. Generally, I don't mind when folks share their religion, but I hate it when they shove it in my face and try to pressure me to believe in it.

However, during situations like this, I let it go. When someone is ill or dying, it is not uncommon for loved ones to grasp tightly onto religion—even if they weren't that religious to begin with. It's one bit of hope and certainty that can help people cope during hopeless and uncertain times.

If any of this reaches your children, you and your DH have the right to be honest with them about what's going on with your ILs—which would probably be a good thing as it'd help clear up any confusion.

[Sisyphus]

Thanks for all of your replies

Apparently I am allowing the last few years of her passive aggressiveness towards me specifically color my view of this situation. So, I will just suck it up. Again. And let it go without saying anything.

I do appreciate the reality check!!!

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

Thanks for all of your replies

Apparently I am allowing the last few years of her passive aggressiveness towards me specifically color my view of this situation. So, I will just suck it up. Again. And let it go without saying anything.

I do appreciate the reality check!!!

If it makes you feel any better, after a few deaths in a row DH's aunt eventually saw that her pushing her religion on everyone was futile and gave up. There is hope!

[Sisyphus]

LOLOL I tend to doubt my MIL will EVER stop. Of course, I could just pick up and move back to CA LOL.

My dh started hinting around last night that he wants her to move in with us when FIL dies. My response: She can move in with YOU, but not with me and the kids. In other words, over YOUR dead body, mister!!

[Niamh]

Originally Posted by Sisyphus

She can move in with YOU, but not with me and the kids.

I feel ya there.

I thought your email was well written, and under normal circumstances would be a great one to send. Death makes people do some crazy things, so I too liked the advice to hold off on this one and explain to your kids what's probably happening in her mind. I still wouldn't let them be altar boys, though.