House of Slobs - Page 3

[queenjulie]

Originally Posted by journeymom

I agree. Separate the urine and feces issues from his bad attitude about house work and his responsibilities. His pooping and peeing anywhere other than a toilet needs to be of primary importance.

Does he (and do you) realize that having urine and feces in the house can get your children taken away from you? They are a major sign of child neglect (along with insect or animal infestations) that social workers look for. If anyone were to find out about it and report you guys, your children could end up in foster care. You sound like a really great mom, and I know you're already upset about this, and I'm not trying to freak you out, but maybe telling him that would scare him into dealing with such a totally bizarre habit.

[flowmom]

Ahappymel, first off, I want to offer you a big hug . The situation really sucks and it is not fair to your or your children. Being a mom is hard enough, being a WOHM is hard enough, but dealing with all that other stuff on top of everything is really heavy. I'm sure you're a great person and a great mother and I'm really glad that you're reaching out for support and help.

I don't want to sound like I'm passing judgement on you...sometimes things sound worse when we write them out than they are IRL. But I do want to give you a reality check and trigger you to really look at the big picture here.

Your dh does not need reminding, he needs professional help. Just because other people are living in worse conditions than you are, does not make your situation acceptable. As a pp mentioned, having adult urine or poop left lying around in the home is unacceptable and Not Normal. Not only is it unacceptable for your dh to do that, it is also not OK for you to tolerate it...for yourself or for your kids. You seriously do run the risk of dealing with CPS if you tolerate this on a long-term basis.

My dh has some gross habits too. His Swiss mother did everything for him when he was growing up, then he lived as a bachelor for many years. He had to learn a lot of hygiene and self care basics the hard way -- from getting feedback as an adult . But I guess my dh isn't as extreme as what you are dealing with, your dh's behaviours really cross the line.

I am sure that there is a deep-seated reason why your dh is doing this stuff. This goes beyond being a slob or being lazy. I don't think that your strategy of reminding/nagging your dh constantly will work...IMO you are setting yourself and him up for failure. You have already tried that and it is not working - he is not hearing you. My two year old has better toilet habits than your dh does. Your dh has a problem and both of you are in denial about this. You need to know what the problem is so that you can figure out what to do about it.

IMO, you need to talk in a language that he can understand. Like, "the next time I find urine or poop lying around the house the kids and I are moving out until you seek medical/psychiatric help"...and mean it. It's not his choice to have whatever mental illness or issue is going on with him, but it is his choice to inflict it on his family and not seek help.

I think it's a good idea for you to seek out counselling for yourself as well. I know that once you have kids with a man you can't easily walk away from him, but at the same time you need to understand your own role in this situation. You may want to look at your own behaviours and examine whether you are enabling him to continue doing unacceptable behaviours. You need to act from a place of respecting and loving yourself. If you can get to that place, you will not be able to tolerate this situation any longer.

I'm sure your dh has many great qualities. But IMO you need to protect yourself and your children. I would suggest that you start keeping a secret diary and stash of photos to document what is going on. If things get worse you may want to have evidence of what is going on. And a secret money stash so that you can follow through on a threat to leave. Your dh is in trouble but he is shaming and blaming you...if his issues continue to get worse you will need to have your ducks in a row.

Get help!!! Write a list of anyone who can help you in this situation. Your dh is not listening to you...is there anyone who could get his ear? You need to break out of your isolation and share what is going on with your family with your IRL community and extended family. The only way that your dh can avoid being confronted by his issues is by your hiding the situation and "covering" for him.

Originally Posted by Ahappymel

The in-laws would FREAK if I mentioned any of this...

Who cares? . They are family and you need help. They don't want their grandchildren to grow up like that any more than you do. This is not the time to be protecting your dh's feelings or your ILs' feelings.

How many years do you want to live like this? We have the heavy responsibility of creating our children's homes and shaping what is normal for them. Spend some time visualizing what you want for you and your children. You can make this happen!

My home needs a lot of work and I can relate to the anger, frustration, shame, and energy drain that a disordered home causes. The four of us live in a 1000 sf apartment and we have no storage or attic or garage, etc. We have clutter and even gross things like recently I discovered that there were weevils in our pantry . I am working really hard at getting my act together. I am coming to understand that tolerating chaos in my home is destroying my peace and stopping me from enjoying my family and life. My dh is a great father but he's a slob and I've realized that it falls on me to keep the home in order. Nagging doesn't work...it just makes me feel like a b---- . I am doing it for myself and for my kids. I grew up in a messy home and I hated it .

When it comes to sharing the housework, I agree with pps that you need to keep this a separate issue in your own mind and with your dh. The sharing housework issue is Normal. I don't know many fathers who seriously put a dent in household chores. I suggest that you listen to flylady's podcasts if you want to work on your home and involve others in that. It's not fair when men don't spontaneously pull their weight around the house, but frankly it's the norm for men to just not notice or not do the 100s of things that need doing every day.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. I truly am trying to offer you support here .

[Ahappymel]

ending thread

[rachelagain]

Please don't flame me, but I think we need to ease up on the OP- she was venting frustration and in need of support. She did say she would seek counseling for herself and alot of people have said this is a mental issue on his part and to get documentation, which I think is very wise advice. But now that everyone has said their piece, can we just love on her for a while?
Reading through this thread, I felt that had I been the OP, I would have felt judged and attacked and I think all the important points have been covered now.
No offense intended.

*hugs*

[MamaRabbit]

I find poopy diapers, etc in the path of destruction left after my DH decides to help. Drives me nuts.

[Ahappymel]

ending thread

[kittysmama]

I didn't think that you had feces in your house but got the idea that it was more than peeing in a bottle from your anecdote about the storage locker. We actually have had a storage unit for years and I have never found human waste on the property, ever. If I saw someone defecating in a pie pan (of all things!) I would call the police, there is a bathroom available, as there is at yours. Urinating in public is against the law, by the way, regardless of his beliefs, it is a public health issue. If he is urinating and defecating in a bottle or pie pan, ie, places other than in the toilet, that is not "regularly" using the toilet. Just because he uses the toilet sometimes doesn't mean that his other behavior is normal. I am really concerned for you and your kids that you have such a strong need to minimize how abnormal and serious his behavior is. The fact that he frequently chooses to not use a toilet when there is one readily accessible, as you point out, is NOT normal. There is no way to rationalize, minimize or justify it, it is NOT normal and if CPS were to get involved, as others have pointed out, you would be responsible for choosing to keep your children in a home where this is going on. No matter what he or you choose to think about his behavior, you need to understand that society views it as seriously abnormal and, as others have pointed out, it could be GROUNDS FOR LOSING YOUR CHILDREN. I am sorry that you are in this position, it's a crappy (pun intended) thing to have to deal with, but you do have to deal with it or live knowing that your kids could end up in foster care. No matter how much you clean, try to hide it, etc, your kids could still end up in foster care because of their father's bizzare behavior and your choice to do nothing effective about it. Whatever is underlying his behavior (people have guessed trauma, mental illness, you mentioned strange beliefs about how it is somehow beneficial) the behavior needs to STOP or you need to get your kids into a different environment. I really want to be supportive but you need a serious reality check. Do you think that foster care would be likely to keep your kids unvaxxed, vegetarian, together? How can that risk possibly be worth it?

[Yooper]

Originally Posted by kittysmama

I didn't think that you had feces in your house but got the idea that it was more than peeing in a bottle from your anecdote about the storage locker. We actually have had a storage unit for years and I have never found human waste on the property, ever. If I saw someone defecating in a pie pan (of all things!) I would call the police, there is a bathroom available, as there is at yours. Urinating in public is against the law, by the way, regardless of his beliefs, it is a public health issue. If he is urinating and defecating in a bottle or pie pan, ie, places other than in the toilet, that is not "regularly" using the toilet. Just because he uses the toilet sometimes doesn't mean that his other behavior is normal. I am really concerned for you and your kids that you have such a strong need to minimize how abnormal and serious his behavior is. The fact that he frequently chooses to not use a toilet when there is one readily accessible, as you point out, is NOT normal. There is no way to rationalize, minimize or justify it, it is NOT normal and if CPS were to get involved, as others have pointed out, you would be responsible for choosing to keep your children in a home where this is going on. No matter what he or you choose to think about his behavior, you need to understand that society views it as seriously abnormal and, as others have pointed out, it could be GROUNDS FOR LOSING YOUR CHILDREN. I am sorry that you are in this position, it's a crappy (pun intended) thing to have to deal with, but you do have to deal with it or live knowing that your kids could end up in foster care. No matter how much you clean, try to hide it, etc, your kids could still end up in foster care because of their father's bizzare behavior and your choice to do nothing effective about it. Whatever is underlying his behavior (people have guessed trauma, mental illness, you mentioned strange beliefs about how it is somehow beneficial) the behavior needs to STOP or you need to get your kids into a different environment. I really want to be supportive but you need a serious reality check. Do you think that foster care would be likely to keep your kids unvaxxed, vegetarian, together? How can that risk possibly be worth it?

While I agree that pee bottles in the house is unconventional and might be grounds for CPS investigation, it is not really that gross. No grosser than people who must do this due to age or being bedridden. What is gross and very inconsiderate is that he does not clean this up himself right away. I also do not think peeing outside is that big of a deal. On the sidewalk in the middle of town, yes, gross AND illegal. In the woods behind the nasty rest area outhouses, not so much. I am totally guilty of this. Not for myself, but when I have dd, I would much rather she pop a squat in the woods (pee only) than take her into some contaminated, never cleaned, public restroom. We do use mason jars in our camper, that has no toilet, and tent when camping. I often go camping alone with dd and if nature calls in the middle of the night, I am not going to wake up dd and drag her to the toilet when I can just use a jar. Of course, we have very specific rules. Each jar is marked for the sole user and it MUST be cleaned out with SOAP and hot water by the owner first thing in the morning. No exceptions!

[Kavita]

Originally Posted by Ahappymel;12315258 QUOTE

Just to keep this straight, he only pees in the bottle or bedpan at night. He says he has sleep problems and then if gets up, then he fully awakens and has a hard time going back to sleep.
It's not always either...it's sometimes. Or if we are out in public and he doesn't want to stop to use the restroom. He says he hates public restrooms. He prefers to pee outside. I cannot tell how many times I have seen him pee in bushes/on trees when a public restroom was very accessible.
He is very much the "naturalist"...he believes that peeing outside deposits minerals into the soil too.
Let me set the record straight about feces...we DO NOT have feces in the house!
THERE IS NO FECES IN THE HOUSE.
I don't like the pee in the bottle issues when it happens and I will take the advice to absolutely verbalize that it is totally unacceptable.

Okay. I think I have a better picture about this now. I think you are married to Mr. Natural--this makes some sense with what you've said about the vegan/vegetarian diet, the internal hygiene concerns, etc. I think he's just not that grossed out by pee/poop etc., and feels they are "natural". In fact, I've met people like that who sort of have the attitude that because they have such a good vegetarian diet, their poop isn't as gross/smelly/yukky as other people's. (I have known at least one person who had sort of a fetish about his own pee and poop, and really got a kick out of finding alternative and creative places to deposit his waste, especially so that other people would encounter it. That's pretty icky.) Being Mr. Natural isn't a bad thing--he probably has a pretty positive attitude about things like childbirth and menstruation, really is down with the cloth diapering, and isn't going to get all hung up if you prefer not to shave your legs or wear chemical deodorants. Mr. Naturals can be very earthy and can be very accepting and affirming of the natural body, and that can be a very sexy and positive and pro-woman thing.

I personally am against random peeing outside especially because I've traveled in developing countries (notably, India) where there is more exposure to human urine/fecal material (peeing a lot in public, open sewers, etc.) and this is a major cause of disease and health problems. Pee and poop don't only contain minerals, they contain viruses, bacteria, parasites, etc., such as hepatitis A or B, poliovirus, etc. One of the reasons that we are able to not worry quite so much about things like polio (fecal transmission) is that in the US we have very high standards of public sanitation and understand that sanitary sewers and clean water have a big impact on disease reduction, and that has had a major effect on reducing incidence of diseases like this. I can understand that your DH really doesn't like public restrooms (who does? they are often gross) but I *really* don't like the alternative of people peeing and pooping everywhere in public space and turning the rest of the world into a big toilet! Just like he is grossed out by public restrooms, the rest of us are also grossed out by people peeing in public spaces or in a container when there is a toilet readily available. Obviously, sometimes it's unavoidable that people will have to eliminate somewhere other than in a toilet or urinal--I think most people can concede that there are potty emergencies where you have to pee or poop imminently and there just is not toilet available at all, and you may end up having to go behind a tree or in a container or something like that. Or if somebody is sick or disabled, then they may need a bedpan or urine bottle.

But a perfectly healthy adult doing this is just a lazy and disgusting habit, and it's one that displays a profound disregard for public sanitation when it's happening in public, and a profound disregard and disrespect for your feelings and for the attitude he's passing to the children when it happens in your home and especially when it's left for YOU to find/clean up!!! I can understand his point about the sleep issues too--I mean, spend a few minutes on a DDC in the middle of the night--how many of us haven't had that happen on a very regular basis when we've been pregnant? (Getting up in the middle of the night to pee, and being unable to fall back asleep.) But I haven't heard of one person deciding that the solution to this is to pee in a bottle or bedpan and leave it at the bedside!!! If he really has such a big problem with getting back to sleep and it's affecting him that much to get up to use the bathroom, he needs to seek help from a sleep specialist to deal with the sleep disorder, or a urologist if he's peeing abnormally frequently at night, rather than just peeing in a container. I think that you really need to draw the line here with this--division of labor with housework is an issue that most couples have to grapple with, and that's just normal/par for the course in marriage. If one person wants the house cleaner/tidier/less cluttery than the other one, then it's usually up to that person to put in a bit more effort to get/keep it that way, and that's probably okay. Like an OP said, there are certain things that *I* do in the house because *I* like them done. But the peeing thing has to stop. Because it's bothering you, and justifiably so. In a marriage, if one party has a behavior that is completely revolting to their spouse and/or setting a bad example for the kids, they should really make an effort to change that behavior.

[Ahappymel]

ending thread

[flowmom]

Ahappymel, I'm sorry that this thread hasn't offered a lot of support in terms of your original concern. In terms of your concern about wanting your dh to do his share of the housework, I definitely want to re-iterate my recommendation to listen to flylady's podcasts. If you have an MP3 player you can absorb her message while you're doing the housework. I think she has a lot of wisdom to share when it comes to the syndrome of the martyred wife who is frustrated with her dh not doing the basics around the house. You can even call into her show. My pet peeve is dh dumping his coat on the floor in our small entranceway :.

But...it's hard to focus on the topic of the thread when you have mentioned the pee/poop issue. When people post on MDC I assume that they want honest responses that come from the heart. I agree with everything that Kavita wrote above -- she seems to have summarized the situation well. But I also share kittysmama's concerns. I didn't have the impression that you have feces lying around the house or that your home is a pigsty. I have the impression that you work really hard to keep your home in a reasonable condition and that you are compensating for your dh's behaviours. But what if you were sick or incapacitated in some way for a time? Would your children be living in a home with a collection of fermenting urine bottles? The "mudpie" scenario seems really extreme to me and it does make me wonder if that's the only time that your dh has defecated in inappropriate places?

And (in honour of rachelagain), : : . Really

[Ahappymel]

Thank you

I just want to say thank you for the honesty and heart messages here. I am feeling uncomfortable now. I have met a few MDC moms in person and what if someone reads this and takes the info out of context and is alarmed enough to call CPS? I have enough to worry about. I am a vegan woman, a natural weaner, I don't vax...enough reasons for the general public to think I'm not taking care of my kids. Quite frankly, I believe CPS would be quite satisfied with the way I keep the house. What if I did become incapicated and unable to maintain the house? I don't know...what would happen to any of us?

I prefer not to go on with this thread but feel grateful anyhow.
Mel.