"People forget what it was like" - Page 3

[NYMOM07]

[QUOTE=Mama Poot;12311752]Says my grandfather, who is healthy and robust in his mid-70's, despite having suffered through measles, mumps, scarlet fever, and pertussis as a child. He recently told me his life story about how he had to be in quarantine, how his dad had to live at a neighbor's house during his measles quarantine, all the people he knew who had disfiguring scarring from scarlet fever, people he knew who were sterilized by mumps, or paralyzed by polio. He says he never wants to see those diseases come back, and that "People don't remember" what it was like back then.

I am very scared of vaccines- but this is true.. we dont know what it was like, and I am sure that people do get hurt by these diseases. just because we dont vaccinate, doesnt mean that the statements your grandfather made are some how exaggerated or false. My grandparents have the same opinion, and i dont think that it is a coincidence that they think this way and lived through the diseases....Yes sanitation and treatments have greatly improved, but 70 years wasnt that long ago- its not like he was living before there were sanitation programs and clean water, etc. I think it is important to see that both views are valid, and that is why so many people struggle with the decision to vaccinate or not.

[Gitti]

My mom has been doing a lot of research on vaccines lately, and has come across the fact that the only polio left in existence in the world today is in the vaccines themselves. Polio is kept alive just to make more money for the drug companies. How sick is that?

Well that is not true for Polio, but it is a fact for small pox. That is kept alive in two labs in order to ...???

Polio is a virus and lives in dirty water. We have sanitary water to drink so we are not in danger. If you travel to let's say India and you drink contaminated water, you would most likely come in contact with the polio virus. Whether it will do damage to your body or not depends on your immune system at the time of contamination. To avoid it is to drink only clean or bottled water.

Also, did anyone hear of the almost 2 billion payout by the US govt. to families of vaccine injured children or children who died from the vaccine?

Yes SOME families do get compensated for the damage a vaccine has done to a child.
Unfortunately it takes years in court and the families have the awful burden of almost conclusively proving that the vaccine was to blame.
I know of one women whose child had a stroke two days after a vaccine at age 9 months and she is still trying to get a verdict. The child is now 12 years old in is in constant care which she has payed for all these years out of her own pocket.

When will they wake up and say enough is enough and stop torturing our children with these shots and stop torturing us parents for not wanting to give our children these terrible vaccines?

Never! That is their business and if everyone would refuse to buy their products, including vaccines, they would go under.
The pharmaceutical conglomerates can only exist if we are not healthy. They want us somewhere between well and dead. But not well nor dead.

[Deborah]

My mother was born in 1918, died a year ago. She brought up 5 unvaccinated children, starting in 1943.

My grandfather, on the other side of the family, turned against vaccines in the teens of the last century. Someone reacted to something, probably the smallpox vaccine, he started researching and decided no more vaccines in his family.

So there are two people who had first hand experience of the terrible epidemics and suffering of the years before the mass vaccinations came in (which in the U.S. would be around 1940) and still chose not to buy into the innoculation model of public health.

[guestmama9944]

My almost-70 grandmother has the opposite opinion. As far as she knows, she's never recieved a vaccine. She had measels, mumps, etc, and only remembers how bored she was because she was kept in her room in the dark. She never remembers any of those diseases being a big deal. "People forget what it was like," has an opposite meaning to me. In the history of vaccines, generally innoculous diseases are redefined and now you have people running scared of chicken pox.

[Proverbs31]

Most of us may not "know what it was like"... but by the same token, past generations don't know what it is like to be coerced or bullied into allowing their infant to be given 8 vaccines at once.

[Full Heart]

[QUOTE=NYMOM07;12321707]

Originally Posted by Mama Poot

I am very scared of vaccines- but this is true.. we dont know what it was like, and I am sure that people do get hurt by these diseases. just because we dont vaccinate, doesnt mean that the statements your grandfather made are some how exaggerated or false. My grandparents have the same opinion, and i dont think that it is a coincidence that they think this way and lived through the diseases....Yes sanitation and treatments have greatly improved, but 70 years wasnt that long ago- its not like he was living before there were sanitation programs and clean water, etc. I think it is important to see that both views are valid, and that is why so many people struggle with the decision to vaccinate or not.

If you read some of the older medical books you will see they were not alarmist about these diseases. they were common childhood diseases. If you go to the CDC and read their page about Scarlet Fever (for which there is no vaccine) its not alarmist. Now go read their page about Measles or mumps. They try to scare you. The medical book of years past have the same non alarmist tone that the CDC does for scarlet fever.

I do know what it is like. At least for Pertusis and Mumps and Chicken pox. My mother and father had MMR (the actual diseases not the vaccine) and My grandparents did and my Great grandparents. None of them viewed it as terrible. My great grandfather begged my mother not to vaccinate. She finally listened to him and started to question vaccines. Diseases can have terrible side effects but not typically.

I would take this as one of those "I walked up hill both ways to school in 4 feet of snow...In june" stories.

[Arduinna]

all the people he knew who had disfiguring scarring from scarlet fever

my sister had scarlet fever when I was a kid ( I never gotit) and from what I can tell it doesn't scar.

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by Gitti

http://www.westonaprice.org/envtoxin...des_polio.html

http://thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf

http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/01-01-05.htm

Also look in the archives.

Thanks Gitti!

[tammyswanson]

Originally Posted by chambom

Sooo....the Polio insecticide correlation...

Are these insecticides used in the world today..say China? Are we importing food with these chemicals?

I don't know...but I refuse to eat any food that says 'made in China'.

[eggsandpancakes]

NAK
scarlet fever is an allergic reaction to toxins produced by Strep A. Not something you can vax for. I'm at home right now with a baby that has it.
BTW, i also had mumps in the early 90's, despite the vax.

[Deborah]

Well, no wonder all the vaccines they tried out for scarlet fever were a big bust.

However, the Pertussis vaccine and the tetanus vaccine are both supposed to protect against toxins, not a bacteria or virus.

[Emmeline II]

[quote=NYMOM07;12321707]

Originally Posted by Mama Poot

I am very scared of vaccines- but this is true.. we dont know what it was like, and I am sure that people do get hurt by these diseases. just because we dont vaccinate, doesnt mean that the statements your grandfather made are some how exaggerated or false. My grandparents have the same opinion, and i dont think that it is a coincidence that they think this way and lived through the diseases....

It's not like all people 70+ years old feel that way as a few of us have mentioned. My mom does not. It actually came up when my mom questioned my decision to vaccinate. I asked her 'what was it like for you' and 'was anyone you know have complications or died from the those diseases'. The answer to the first was 'everyone I know had measles, mumps, and rubella and we were all fine', the answer to the latter was basically 'of course not'. So if the the OP's grandfather was not exaggerating or remembering incorrectly then there was something particular about his neighborhood and/or the people in it, for EVERYONE to have suffered serious complications to typical childhood illnesses. Maybe he was poor; maybe it was typical for himself and peers to not have enough or nutritious food. Maybe he didn't have running water or flush toilets. Maybe he lived in very crowded living conditions. Maybe he lived in an industrial area where toxic materials rained from the sky and were poured into the river.

[Deborah]

The death rates of many childhood illnesses were dropping drastically before the vaccines came in. For example, in the U.S., there were over 200,000 cases of diphtheria per year in the early part of the 1920s. By the late 30s there were under 20,000 cases per year. And I'll make you a bet that most of those cases were in poor neighborhoods with bad nutrition, sanitation, etc. The vaccine did not become widely distributed until the 1940s.

measles never had anything like the death rate from dip, but it also went way down.

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by Deborah

The death rates of many childhood illnesses were dropping drastically before the vaccines came in. For example, in the U.S., there were over 200,000 cases of diphtheria per year in the early part of the 1920s. By the late 30s there were under 20,000 cases per year.

Yup. I'm not convinced the DTP vaccine made any difference at all. The cases kept dropping by the same rate before and after the introduction of the vaccine.

1945 - 18,675
1946 - 16,354
1947 - 12,262
1948 - 9,493 <- vaccine introduced
1949 - 7,969
1950 - 5,796
1951 - 3,983
1952 - 2,960
1953 - 2,355

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm4253.pdf [Pg. 72]

The CDC claims in the Pink Book that rates dropped faster after the introduction of the vaccine, but I don't see any evidence of that.

Originally Posted by Deborah

Measles never had anything like the death rate from dip, but it also went way down.

Definitely. I read in Time magazine that in 1927 there were 7,000 some deaths from measles, yet by the '60s there were only 4-500.

[bri276]

My grandmother was born in 1925 and lived through the depression, had her first of three children at age 16, and completely agrees with not vaxing. She doesn't agree that measles or mumps are the walk in the park that I've seen some people try to make it out to be, but she is much more worried about the chemicals in vaccines, and the developmental issues that she's seen occur in children throughout the decades. This is someone who was in the childcare business her whole life until retiring just a few years ago. The problem isn't just this huge fear of diseases we no longer experience regularly, but this lack of knowledge about what we are really trading them for. If we're replacing illnesses that have the capacity to be serious or even life threatening with vaccine reactions and developmental problems that are fatal or quality of life-threatening, then the parents need to be fully educated to be able to choose which column they're willing to risk.

[Deborah]

Yes, it is an unbalanced accounting system.

Any death from a "vaccine preventable disease" is a terrible tragedy and waste, but a death or permanent damage from a vaccine is a necessary cost to save lives. This counts one sort of death and injury as worse than another sort of death and injury.

The other claim has to do with numbers. That the number of children who would die of preventable diseases is much higher than the number who would die of vaccine damage. Which is possibly correct in a very narrow sense, but much of the damage from vaccines is swept out of sight and dismissed. For example, there is good evidence at this point that some vaccines have caused an increase in the rate of asthma. Asthma kills. I know of someone who died at age 13 because of this chronic disease. His case might very well have been the result of vaccines, but will never be counted as such. We have no idea of the real numbers. Plus, vaccines are given credit for averting thousands of deaths which were actually prevented by a rising standard of living.

The statistics are a mess.

[Death is inevitable. The date varies.]