May yank my twins out of public school - thoughts? *BIG UPDATE #137* - Page 6

[EXOLAX]

Originally Posted by UberMama

Kyler was very quiet and upset looking. I put them in the van and stood there asking him what was wrong. He said he left the classroom today and knew it was bad of him to do. Sigh. He's been watched by so many people besides DH and myself and doesn't do this stuff, why now? So he left the room and went into Cameron's classroom. He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing). She took him back in his room, put him in timeout, told him he was a brat for not listening to her.

I feel this issue needs to be dealt with separately from the meeting the principal is trying to arrange (especially since you do not know for sure what that meeting is about). It also needs to be dealt with immediately. Do you have email access to the teacher/principal? If so I would send out an email pronto saying how concerned you are about your sons transition to K. I would tell them this is what the child told me happened today. That I was concerned for his continued educational growth and emotional development (as long as you were certain they wouldn't take the ED aspect as a personal statement toward your son and not the negative environment).

I would ask for a meeting with both teachers (and principal if available) to happen tomorrow and I would make myself available anytime of the day. I would consider how the child feels about going to school tomorrow, and use the fact that he left one classroom to either be with his twin or twin's teacher as a launching point to try to get Kyler moved. If needed I would bring in/cite documentation on splitting up twins in their first year an institutionalized school setting. I would try to put the emphasis on Kyler's feelings and how the environment in his classroom is affecting him over my own feelings on it. I would go in with the advocate-mom hat on and say "This is what my child says, fix it". If the child is confused over what really happened then the teacher still needs to resolve it with the child. She may or may not have said "brat" (to me it's a moot point), if he interpreted her actions or words to be calling him a brat then that's what he believes. It needs to be dealt with either way.

Whether you pull him out or not this still needs to be dealt with so he can understand what is going on and get personal resolution over it.

[SunshineJ]

Wow, just wow. This whole situation is quickly going from bad to worse in so many ways. Definitely photograph your son's finger and document accordingly. The next thing that I would do is write a letter to the superintendent. Detail the meeting request from the school, that you have repeatedly requested the purpose of the meeting and the responses, that you're being told of others to attend but when asked, the details are being withheld, the continuing changing of dates, etc. Express your concern about your DS's treatment with Ms Mean regarding negative comments (phrased something like "I've been perplexed by the continued negative comments from Ms Mean, as Ms Nice has had nothing but praise for him. However, if there are issues then of course we will work with the school to resolve them in the manner best suited for all concerned. I have asked that Ms Mean refrain verbally expressing such negativity in front of my children to no avail.") I would also include my concern over Ms Mean's attitude towards my child and cite the recent physical violence instigated by her. That's a screaming lawsuit waiting to happen and the superintendent knows it - and will be calling the principal wanting to know wth is going on. I would also push for an immediate meeting to discuss these concerns.

One thing I'm wondering here, and I'm not sure about your state so I don't know if this would make things better or worse, but would it hurt to superceede them and be pro-active? Go to CPS yourself, explain your concerns about what's going on at the school and present all of your very valid and legitimate documentation about the boys medical conditions, etc (including the physical violence shown by the school today). It really does sound like this is where this situation is heading and fast. Ask for the CPS worker to accompany you to the meeting. That way any concerns they are being presented about you will be laid to rest before the meeting ever takes place and it could forestall a lot of problems. Not to mention that while CPS often gets a bad rap, they are there primarily to protect children in a bad situation and if you have already proven your children are in a good place, well, it never hurts to go into these things with them already on your side. Like I said though, take that with a hefty dose of caution as I do not know what CPS is like in your area.

Regardless, just remember whenever speaking with them to always be as professional and polite as possible (even when disagreeing with them), and to still be firm in your rights to information. Don't let them railroad you. Hopefully this is just a huge misunderstanding and a "bad apple" teacher and you can get Kyler moved to a better teacher. (Also know that many districts will not allow siblings of any grade to be in the same class, so the 3rd teacher may be the only option they can offer you.) Honestly at this point I'd definitely be looking for another option for education. And I would NOT send Kyler back to school until he is removed from her class and something has been resolved. (A quick trip to the principal to show him your DS's hand with an explanation of what happened and a demand for a new teacher would work at most schools, but this one sounds so out there, who knows?)

Good luck and lot's of hugs!!

Kimi

[Anglyn]

If I had seen a physical injury on my child.....ooohhh....I would have stormed right back in there! At this point, go directly to the superintendent....like at 8am tommorow, kyler with you. No way you should send him back into an abusive situation, which this is. Had you caused the injury, you can bet cps would be at your door tonight.

Heres my take: Kyler went into camerons classroom for comfort, to be near someone who loves him, since he is obviously starving for it in that horrible place. He can do no right, his self esteem has been stomped to death, he now truly believes that he is a horrible child, and believe me, the other kids pick that up, they will treat him as the teacher does. He is now the class scapegoat. He wanted to be with his brother, who loves him, to feel that love. And maybe even to be with a nice teacher and some nice kids.

I would confront them on this, immediately. THe principal is dodging you, go over her head. I seriously would be in the superintendents office when he arrives there in the morning, not with a picture, but with the child and the hand itself.

Let him know that if this isnt resolved immediatley, you will be contacting whatever agency oversees them (here in texas its TEA, texas education agency, sure you have something similar). Tell him everything, demand that your child be taken out of that class NOW, not tommorow and threaten to call cps on the teacher.

The best defense is a good offense.

Im sorry, but im afraid at this point your son is learning that you dont stand up for him. His teacher drew blood and you told him all the reasons why he was wrong. He's five. No matter what he did, she had NO RIGHT!!!
Show him that you will not allow anyone to hurt him! Get him out of that class! And show the school that you are not putting up with being bullied!!

eta: I dont mean to imply that Ithink you are being a bad mom. No way. I did the same thing when dd was three andin preschool...maybe she got it wrong, gee, I know they are just trying to teach following rules, etc but in my gut I knew better. My child had it right and she was only three, so we pulled her thinking maybe next year, then we thought, well, maybe kindergarten, then maybe first grade.....shes five now and still at home!

[Periwinkle]

Just to clarify, the other twin (I'm sorry I can't remember the name as I type this - Kyler's brother) IS really loving school and having a great experience, right?

That's tough. Yanking one twin out and leaving the other in is a pretty horrendous decision to make. But so it yanking the child out who truly loves school. Blech.

[saintmom]

They're twins for petes sake! Why in the world aren't they in the same class?

[fireant]

I believe he could be telling the truth.

To this day, I have a clear memory of my first grade teacher grabbing me by the ear and walking me down the hall (still pulling my ear), she also called me a brat for spending my recess in the school library with my older sister instead of on the playground.

I also remember her having to apologize to me in front of principle later that day.

[purplemoon]

Originally Posted by Anglyn

If I had seen a physical injury on my child.....ooohhh....I would have stormed right back in there! At this point, go directly to the superintendent....like at 8am tommorow, kyler with you. No way you should send him back into an abusive situation, which this is. Had you caused the injury, you can bet cps would be at your door tonight.

Heres my take: Kyler went into camerons classroom for comfort, to be near someone who loves him, since he is obviously starving for it in that horrible place. He can do no right, his self esteem has been stomped to death, he now truly believes that he is a horrible child, and believe me, the other kids pick that up, they will treat him as the teacher does. He is now the class scapegoat. He wanted to be with his brother, who loves him, to feel that love. And maybe even to be with a nice teacher and some nice kids.

I would confront them on this, immediately. THe principal is dodging you, go over her head. I seriously would be in the superintendents office when he arrives there in the morning, not with a picture, but with the child and the hand itself.

Let him know that if this isnt resolved immediatley, you will be contacting whatever agency oversees them (here in texas its TEA, texas education agency, sure you have something similar). Tell him everything, demand that your child be taken out of that class NOW, not tommorow and threaten to call cps on the teacher.

The best defense is a good offense.

Im sorry, but im afraid at this point your son is learning that you dont stand up for him. His teacher drew blood and you told him all the reasons why he was wrong. He's five. No matter what he did, she had NO RIGHT!!!
Show him that you will not allow anyone to hurt him! Get him out of that class! And show the school that you are not putting up with being bullied!!

eta: I dont mean to imply that Ithink you are being a bad mom. No way. I did the same thing when dd was three andin preschool...maybe she got it wrong, gee, I know they are just trying to teach following rules, etc but in my gut I knew better. My child had it right and she was only three, so we pulled her thinking maybe next year, then we thought, well, maybe kindergarten, then maybe first grade.....shes five now and still at home!

:

This is horrible. Call an emergency meeting TODAY. Take pictures, document, go above their heads.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this!

[Dr.Worm]

Hope everything works out ok..and i totally agree about complaining about the injury.

[UberMama]

The injury has been documented.

I called and left a message for the principal. If no call back soon, I'll call the superintendent. DH and I talked last night and this morning and decided to call principal first.

The boys are of course not in school today. Oddly enough, Kyler had a runny nose yesterday and today he is coughing like mad. So I'll probably be taking him in to the doctor sometime today to document how badly he is coughing (it's a pretty severe dry cough, DH is going to give him a nebulizer treatment soon - but we'll wait long enough for the cough to come back before taking him in).

And yes, one child (Cameron) loves school and has no issues really and Kyler who does love school as well, is the one having most of the issues.

We've talked to them about what HS is and they both seem to have a pretty good understanding of what all it involves. They both like the idea. Cameron told me he doesn't care about the kids at school, he just likes to sit there writing his letters and connecting the (numbered) dots, etc.

ETA: Principal called back. This is the teachers story..

Kyler mouthed off in his classroom. The teacher decided he needed a timeout in a separate room all by himself. So she put him in a different classroom where he was to sit for five minutes. She then came back, got him and took him back to class.

Okay, why does Cameron know the story so well? Things that Kyler told me in private, Cameron knew when I asked him in private as to what happened. How does Cameron know?? :/

[petra_william]

oh my i cant imagine what you are going through right now.



seriously though, you sound like a person who has her head screwed on as we say here. you are very organized (documenting everything liek that. i cant even keep on top of my bills!) and i think you'd be suited to homeschooling perfectly. hell if i can do it anyone can lol

i would pull them out. id just say enough is enough and do what you want to do anyway. ask cameron what he would rather do or say to him he can always go back to school if he wants to (maybe in a couple of years time things will look differently anyway)
you say your kids have trouble with their immune systems?
and from what ive grasped they have already missed a huge amount of time in school. do you think this is going to change? that their immune system is going to get stronger so that they stop missing so many days in school? if not (i obviously dont know the full story) i wuold pull them out of school simply to keep them healthy. they would be able to learn so much more at home than they would in school and they would be together.

things just seem to be getting worse and worse and i honestly cant see how it can get better. your relationship with the teacher is obviously not a good one and that will reflect on your children too.

again .... i really hope you get this whole situation sorted for the better.

[aaronsmom]

Originally Posted by saintmom

They're twins for petes sake! Why in the world aren't they in the same class?

Yeah, really. My younger brother is an identical twin (although his twin did not survive past birth) and has immune issues as well as learning disabilities, motor skill disabilities, etc.
When he was in kindergarten and I was in 2nd grade we went to the same school. He had severe separation anxiety and often I would be called to his classroom to spend time with him to calm him down.
Sounds to me like Kyler just wanted to be near his brother, which is completely understandable.

[SoCaliMommy]

Originally Posted by saintmom
Why in the world aren't they in the same class?

There is one twin in my daughter's class and the other twin in a different class.

They separate them so they can make friends with other children, they are always around their twin when they are at home.

[anywaybecause]

Originally Posted by UberMama

ETA: Principal called back. This is the teachers story..

Kyler mouthed off in his classroom. The teacher decided he needed a timeout in a separate room all by himself. So she put him in a different classroom where he was to sit for five minutes. She then came back, got him and took him back to class.

Okay, why does Cameron know the story so well? Things that Kyler told me in private, Cameron knew when I asked him in private as to what happened. How does Cameron know?? :/

Yeah, I don't buy the school's version. And even if I did . . . she left him unsupervised in another room? Not a smart decision. Anyway, regardless of which story is the most accurate, Ms Mean clearly lost control of herself and made poor decisions.

If it were me, I would pull my kids out, not bothering to wait for this oh-so-important-but-constantly-rescheduled meeting.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by UberMama

ETA: Principal called back. This is the teachers story..

Kyler mouthed off in his classroom. The teacher decided he needed a timeout in a separate room all by himself. So she put him in a different classroom where he was to sit for five minutes. She then came back, got him and took him back to class.

Okay, why does Cameron know the story so well? Things that Kyler told me in private, Cameron knew when I asked him in private as to what happened. How does Cameron know?? :/

Yeah, definitely not buying that one. Even if its true -- in almost every school I have ever heard of leaving a child unsupervised alone in a room is against the rules. I'm pretty sure in our state "isolation" time outs are only allowed for violent students who are a danger to other students. You might want to check this out so you have straight facts before you confront teacher/principal and/or escalate up the line. Just think of all the ways an unsupervised 5 YO could hurt himself in an empty classroom -- sissors, cleaning chemicals... What would have happened if he had hurt himself in those five minutes? Left the school property? Taken? What if there had been an emergency? (In So. CA its always "what if there had been an earthquake since they come without warning). Not to scare you, but to scare the principal if he insists this was an appropriate action. I can here it now... "So, you are telling me that it is OK for a student to be unsupervised in a classroom?"

At this point I would escalate it even if you were going to pull the kids in order to protect other students.

Maybe call the district, ask for whoever is in charge of discipline policy. Ask, "I'm just curious, is it permissible to give a lower elementary school an unsupervised time out in an empty classroom?" and see what they say. Bet they say its not permissible.

[ChristaN]

Actually, I'd ask for a written copy of their version of what happened before you pursue this any further so they can't deny saying that they left him alone in a room.

Cameron's teacher is probably being put in a bad spot, too, in terms of backing up your boys' story if asked. Dd#1's difficult 1st grade teacher was well known for being the teacher no one wanted. Interestingly enough, none of the school staff whose kids attended the school ever wound up in her class. However, the teachers were afraid to stand up and support parents against her b/c they were afraid of the consequences for themselves. The principal at the school at that time was not supportive of either good staff members or parents. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that was going on at your school.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by ChristaN

Actually, I'd ask for a written copy of their version of what happened before you pursue this any further so they can't deny saying that they left him alone in a room.

Really good idea.

[anywaybecause]

Originally Posted by DustysSweety03

There is one twin in my daughter's class and the other twin in a different class.

They separate them so they can make friends with other children, they are always around their twin when they are at home.

Whether or not twins are placed in the same classroom tends to vary by state and then by district. Here in MA, we just passed legislation that protects the rights of parents to be involved in the decision. Previously, the majority of schools (in my area, at least) tended to force separation and parents who wanted their twins placed together had an uphill battle.

[saintmom]

At this point that teacher would be out of a job IMHO.Even if you're going to hs.Sorry but she does not sound like someone who needs to be around children.
When I have students who "mouth -Off" (I'm still teaching sunday school) I just look at them and say "that wasn't nice,please say your sorry"I say "apology accepted" whether or not they say anything and move on.All the other kids see it.They know it's not a big deal,and for whatever reason the negetive behaviour isn't going to get a response.The positive should and does.
Why she chose to make a big deal out of it,turn it into some kind of power struggle,loose valuable teaching time is beyond me.
I'm really sorry you've had to go through this.Kudos for your documenting everything.I know I would'nt have done half as well.

[Anglyn]

In Texas, its your choice. My best friend had twins and she was aksed if she wanted the same or diffrent class for them. All the other twins I know,ditto, parents choice.

Anyway, I pulled DD out of preschool after the third day that they withheld her snack and isolated her across the room at a table by herself at snack time with the coloring sheet she had not colored at coloring time. For three days I ignored my gut screaming at me that, "why the hell does it matter if she colored? She's three?" I called the principal stating that DD had feeding issues and that witholding food meets the legal definition of child abuse in texas law. He took the teachers side. DD also said that her teacher ate her snack,with the teacher denied, but even though I faithfully sent a snack in her backpack everyday, the snacks for the three days that she was denied snack never came back home, not even when I withdrew her.

She's five now, she still remembers it.

At the very least, Kyler needs a newteacher. And I agree that even if you pull them, Id still contact the superintendant, for the sake of all the other children in her classroom. Teachers are people,there are good ones, mediocre ones and some really bad ones, you had the misluck to get a really bad one, but its your job to make sure that gets corrected.

[thisiswhatwedo]

uber mom I am sorry you are going through this but you don't have to. why are you putting your family through this? If the school is calling a meeting with specialists , which they never do because it is money and time, they are most likely going to drop a bomb on you. I am paranoid so take this with a grain of salt, but for me I would have taken them out of school and gotten a lawyer. If you have a doctor or therapist or family advocate of some sort who can come with you to the meeting I'd do it. There is nothing good going on if they won't talk to you about a 'secret subject' meeting that they are planning. It is highly unprofessional. I am being tough here but why are you volunteering to be put through this by these people?
I want you to take care of your family and do well. How about taking them out of school (I'd never make my child be in a classroom with some one who had abused him, it happened to me when I was young!) and I would never play their game,(school in charge, family must obey) I'd get a lawyer and go to the meeting on the offensive. They are damaging your kids. As a kid who went through abuse, real abuse by teachers I really feel strongly about this. I am not trying to lecture you but want you to know that I feel this way
good luck