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May yank my twins out of public school - thoughts? *BIG UPDATE #137* - Page 7

post #121 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
Tried to talk to the principal but I was told first that they didn't know where she was and then that she had left for a meeting.

Picked the boys up. Neither teacher would look me in the eye much less talk to me. Odd for Cameron's teacher but she may have been busy.

Kyler was very quiet and upset looking. I put them in the van and stood there asking him what was wrong. He said he left the classroom today and knew it was bad of him to do. Sigh. He's been watched by so many people besides DH and myself and doesn't do this stuff, why now? So he left the room and went into Cameron's classroom. He said his teacher came and got him, yanked him by his arm and dug her nail into his finger (he has skin missing on the knuckle of his thumb, a very small piece is missing). She took him back in his room, put him in timeout, told him he was a brat for not listening to her.

NOW he's five years old and fibs occasionally, so I don't totally trust his story. I grilled him quite a bit without getting upset with him. But his story remained consistent. I don't totally believe that a teacher would call a student a brat (to his face anyway). Especially with how kids repeat things. But that word is not used in our home, so I am unsure of where he heard it but again, could be from anywhere!

So I do believe he went into Cameron's classroom and got in trouble. We talked about why he just cannot do that. He feels terrible (again, I didn't get mad at him) and he's very quiet now. :/


Take them out. They don't need to be there, it's just not a good place for them. Look at how your little boy feels. Look at how his "teacher" (she is NOT a teacher) makes him feel. Now he's at trouble at home too because of school. He should be able to come home without school hanging over his head. The school is now running and interferring in your life. What ever the principal and the "teacher" say about your children will go into your school records and stay with him whereever he goes. That school record will determine what every other "teacher", principal and ruling body will think about and how they treat your son. IS THIS RIGHT?
post #122 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
Both teachers, principal, two behavior specialists and now I am being told 1-2 other staff members may be there. So yes, everyone and then some will be there!
I know this sounds crazy, but take a lawyer. It sounds like you are being set up. They will get the hint real fast if you take an educational attorney with you. I used to teach public school and these "meetings" can get ugly fast.
post #123 of 161
One last thing, I would definitely push for a "purpose" for the meeting. If needed send the principal a certified letter asking for clarification about the meeting. Document everything. Keep a notepad in your car and jot down every single thing Miss Mean says about your son (make notes of what Mrs. Nice says too!) and keep detailed notes on every conversation that you have with the principal or other staff members over the phone. I'd walk into the meeting with a stack of notes all typed up, printed, and chronologically organized into a small binder. Not in a huffy or mean way, just to keep stuff straight.

I think it's very suspicious that they 1) don't care if your DH attends the meeting, 2) won't tell you what the meeting is about, and 3) have so many people coming to this meeting - esp the 2 behavioral psychologists. Not that I'm trying to be all conspiracy theory over here but it sounds like they are setting you up... but wtf would be the purpose in that?

GL,
Beth[/QUOTE]


Beth is very wise. This is all good advice!
post #124 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisiswhatwedo View Post
uber mom I am sorry you are going through this but you don't have to. why are you putting your family through this? If the school is calling a meeting with specialists , which they never do because it is money and time, they are most likely going to drop a bomb on you. I am paranoid so take this with a grain of salt, but for me I would have taken them out of school and gotten a lawyer. If you have a doctor or therapist or family advocate of some sort who can come with you to the meeting I'd do it. There is nothing good going on if they won't talk to you about a 'secret subject' meeting that they are planning. It is highly unprofessional. I am being tough here but why are you volunteering to be put through this by these people?
I want you to take care of your family and do well. How about taking them out of school (I'd never make my child be in a classroom with some one who had abused him, it happened to me when I was young!) and I would never play their game,(school in charge, family must obey) I'd get a lawyer and go to the meeting on the offensive. They are damaging your kids. As a kid who went through abuse, real abuse by teachers I really feel strongly about this. I am not trying to lecture you but want you to know that I feel this way
good luck
I hear your compassion and concern,and ITA with a lot of what you say.

I have read this thread all the way through,and while I personally would have already yanked them out,this momma is trying to do her best.She is torn,as the one twin really likes school,and is doing well.

It is NOT easy to just go out and get a lawyer to fight a school district. Not everyone has the $-a cheap lawyer is expensive.

My H.02.
post #125 of 161
Thread Starter 
In talking with the principal yesterday, they are bringing in speech therapists for one of my son's (Cameron).

I asked the principal why I wasn't told this before and she acted dumbfounded that no one (INCLUDING HER) would not tell me who was attending this meeting before now. I told her that she herself withheld this information and she was quiet. I asked her why the term 'behavior specialist' was thrown around and again, NO ANSWER.

If it were solely up to me, I would have yanked Kyler before now. But DH is part of this decision and he is not near wanting to yank Kyler like I am. It's very frustrating and causing a lot of friction between him and I. I hope that we can come to an agreement this weekend.

The oddest thing happened - Kyler was sick yesterday. I mean, very sick. Coughing a lot, terribly runny nose.

And do you know what happened today? He's fine. Please explain this to me. I would think allergies but the coughing yesterday was terrible. And why one full day of it and then nothing at all today? I don't get that. I was ready to get him back into the dr this morning for proof that he was sick. But now he's fine. I am just.. shocked.

So we'll see what happens this weekend. DH and I are planning on having some talks about this. I know some fights may occur, he is wanting to wait until the meeting for Kyler, I think. I don't know for sure.. but we can't do that and the meeting seems to be for Cameron now. DH does agree that this teacher and Kyler don't mesh and something must be done if he stays in. But I don't want him staying in school, I want him out.

So I can only imagine how fun this weekend will be.. but we'll see. I just want to come to an agreement already (we're limited on time during the week since DH is finally getting more hours at work again and he works swing shift). :/ I am emotionally exhausted and frustrated. But I know this is not about me and I am not making up excuses, so don't think that..
post #126 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by homewithtwinsmama View Post
I know this sounds crazy, but take a lawyer. It sounds like you are being set up. They will get the hint real fast if you take an educational attorney with you. I used to teach public school and these "meetings" can get ugly fast.
If I could find a free one, I would. But being we have almost no money at all thanks to an idiot mistake I made in forgetting to pay our state taxes (we're being garnished 1/4 of DH's paychecks and when he's working only 20 hours per week, well..). We're hurting financially BIG TIME.. and it's only temporary but we won't be back on our feet until November if not December.

So I would do the lawyer bit, but the best I can do is bring along a friend or family member. I may very well bring my Father, who is intimidating for a few reasons. Him and I are quite alike - get us in a room and talk to us and we're quick to the point and don't take crap. He's willing to come along if he's not working swing shift that week. That's about the best I can do. The school district doesn't have parent advocates, I called and asked.


To add - I at least got letters from the dr for each boy stating they were premature, their immune systems are still not up to where their peers are, etc. A bunch of rather large medical words were used.. so we'll be making copies (keeping the originals!) for the school.
post #127 of 161
ETA: Principal called back. This is the teachers story..

Kyler mouthed off in his classroom. The teacher decided he needed a timeout in a separate room all by himself. So she put him in a different classroom where he was to sit for five minutes. She then came back, got him and took him back to class.

Okay, why does Cameron know the story so well? Things that Kyler told me in private, Cameron knew when I asked him in private as to what happened. How does Cameron know?? :/[/QUOTE]

Ummm...when I was teaching you certainly could not leave a 5 year old (or any kid) unattended in a separate room. And how does this story explain or justify the obvious chunk of flesh she removed in her actions??? Was that addressed at all? Educational attorney! Don't attend this meeting without one!!
post #128 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisiswhatwedo View Post
why are you putting your family through this?
You know, I already blame myself for quite a bit of this.. I don't WANT to put my family through any of this but I feel as though I am doing the best that I can. I am sure others disagree but go ahead.. I am not upset, just saying that I am doing what I can.

Like I said, DH is part of this decision. I will do my best in talking with him this weekend and hopefully not causing a fight (which we rarely do but we are both very upset by all of this). I am sure we can come to an agreement over the weekend.
post #129 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by homewithtwinsmama View Post
Ummm...when I was teaching you certainly could not leave a 5 year old (or any kid) unattended in a separate room. And how does this story explain or justify the obvious chunk of flesh she removed in her actions??? Was that addressed at all? Educational attorney! Don't attend this meeting without one!!
I didn't tell the principal what my boys told me. I wanted her to get the teachers stories first. She then told me and I said I would call her back. I called back as well as went into school and she was no where to be found.. once again.

The leaving him unattended is something else I need to go over with them as well. Believe me, it's been put into my notes and highlighted.
post #130 of 161
I would insist that your son be put in with his brother. Brother is not having these issues and before assuming that HE is the issue, you need to try a new teacher for him. Clearly you son is not even SAFE with his current teacher, let alone respected.

Yes, take your husband and your father with you. Also, get that list of everyone who will be there and what their purpose is. If you don't think someone needs to be there (say someone who has never met the boys, or the PPW pupil personnel worker who is usually there about truancy issues) then object. Expect to be ambushed. That is what these meetings are. Overwhelm the parents so they can't see straight and agree to how the school system wants to handle it. Be prepared to advocate for your kids.

Sounds like your dh and you are NOT on the same page yet. Don't go into the meeting like that. Divide and conquer is a technique that IS used in these situations. You must be a united front.

I would also let your principal know that if your son's teacher ever physically harms him again you will call the police instead of the principal. There is absolutely NO justification for that injury.
post #131 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
The school district doesn't have parent advocates, I called and asked.
Check with the PTA. My experience is that they would be more likely to offer this kind of support.

Also, you might want to check if he was left all alone in another room or sent to another classroom that had a teacher in it for his time out. I have read the whole thread, but for some reason that doesn't actually seem clear to me. I never did it, but I know some kindergarten teachers would send kids to another room, but ALWAYS with another teacher, for a time out. The child may interpret that as being left alone because they are separated from their class, which is exactly why I never did it. I do not agree with it at all as a discipline method, but it is very different form sending a child to a room without any adult supervision.

Sorry you guys are going through this.
post #132 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
You know, I already blame myself for quite a bit of this...


It's not your fault, one should be able to send ones child to school without worrying that they will be abused.

Did the SW who came when you MIL called CPS seem at al sympathetic? If she was you could report the abuse at school to her.
post #133 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by UberMama View Post
You know, I already blame myself for quite a bit of this.. I don't WANT to put my family through any of this but I feel as though I am doing the best that I can. I am sure others disagree but go ahead.. I am not upset, just saying that I am doing what I can.

Like I said, DH is part of this decision. I will do my best in talking with him this weekend and hopefully not causing a fight (which we rarely do but we are both very upset by all of this). I am sure we can come to an agreement over the weekend.

god I am so sorry that I sounded like it was your fault. I didn't mean it that way, I meant to say it like, you don't have to do this you know, I just am such a battle axe. I want them to stop f***ing with you and your kids. I went through years of this stuff as a student with my parents just seeing me as the problem and my self esteem just getting lower and lower, so now with my kids the second it got negative I took them out (youngest is still in PS). I am very poor and single and I work but we found a solution (democratic free school), you will too.
I think if your DH could see more first hand what is going on he could see what you see. I hope you guys work it out.
Once again I am totally on your side, I just wanted you to feel like you didn't have to do it. Being single I never think of having to come to an agreement with the other parent ...
post #134 of 161
Wow. Just wow.

I won't go into a lot of detail, but my ds was harrassed by his K teachers, so I am very empathetic. For a long time, I dealt with the school by myself and then relayed the info. to my dh. After awhile, I was so stressed out, that I just couldn't do it anymore. I told dh that it was now his turn to deal with the school. It was *amazing* how quickly his perception of the whole situation changed when he had to deal with it first hand.

See if your pediatrician will attend the meeting. (Ours did - he even volunteered.) Believe it or not, your insurance may cover this. (Ours did.) If they are bringing in behavioral specialists and questioning your ds' absences, then your pediatrician can speak directly to these concerns. If the ped. can't physically be at the meeting, see if you can phone conference him in. Frankly, I'd bring an army with me -- and educational lawyer, CPS, a friend, and anyone else that you can think of that will provide support. If they won't provide you with an agenda, then you do not have to provide them with any agreement as to an action plan at this meeting. Just as they have had time to discuss this, you can also request time to absorb the information.

I am not certain that changing teachers in this school is your best option. Your ds now has a history, and every little future infraction will be overly analyzed. It isn't fair, but it's reality. Besides, if you change teachers, you are still going to be dealing with a school that handles issues in the way that they are dealing with this. Will you ever be able to relax, or will you always jump when the phone rings, and feel the anxiety build up to the time that you leave to get them at the end of the day?
post #135 of 161


I'm rooting for you.

Hang in there.

V
post #136 of 161
Even if Kyler made up that story, it would mean to me that he is well beyond the ability to have a relationship with his current teacher. Boys particularly need to feel that a relationship is genuine in order to work with someone.

I took my ds out of pre-k after about 6 weeks. He was sick about every other week during that time although he has a normal immune system. I kept explaining his teacher to him, getting him to give her another chance, but she kept doing things that alienated him (grabbing things out of his hand when he didn't respond to an order immediately, snapping at him, lying to him) to the point where he simply viewed her as an enemy. Not very conducive to a life long love of learning.

Good luck
post #137 of 161
Thread Starter 
UPDATE

After a lot of talking this weekend, we've decided to pull Kyler out of school and keep Cameron in. For a number of reasons we feel this is best for both of them. I'm going to give the HSing thing a couple of more days (we did it over the weekend as well) before I tell the school what is going on. Even if for some reason we sent Kyler back to PS, he would not go back to that teacher.

So things are going well. After working with Kyler on some things over the weekend and this morning, I'm finding that he definitely needs more one on one attention. I think he was possibly falling behind in class. And when he falls behind in something, he gets frustrated and when he gets frustrated, he gets mad and tends to take out his anger in ways that five year olds sometimes do.

I took Cameron to school this morning. His teacher, the one who is nice, followed me out of the classroom upon my leaving. She stopped me to tell me how great Cameron is doing, that she didn't know what we were doing at home but to keep it up. I told her that we're really focusing more on positive reinforcement more than ever. She said he is minding her all of the time, really listening to what she is saying and excited about doing his work. That is the boy that I KNOW, so it makes me happy to hear he is being himself at school.

So we still have the meeting on the 28th. I think it will be myself, DH and my Dad attending (MIL will be watching the kids at home). I have a feeling it will be mainly about Cameron's speech as he has an ever so slight lisp. I'll let them touch on Kyler not being in school anymore but I will not allow that to be the main focus of the meeting. If they want to go over why we pulled him, I'll happily present them a letter (that I am working on writing up) about why we pulled him.
post #138 of 161
Good for you. Sounds like you found a great solution for our family. *hugs*
post #139 of 161
I'm glad to hear that and glad that you have a few family members (and not your children!) coming with you to the meeting. Are the boys good with this new arrangement (Kyler not feeling like he wasn't making it in school and Cameron not feeling slighted b/c he isn't home with you)?
post #140 of 161
Im so glad you found a solution that works for everyone!
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