Article on the return of thrift in the U.S. - Page 2

[llamalluv]

Originally Posted by Sonnenwende

That was what I was saying? People cannot buy homes because they used the easy credit in the first place to buy things that were overinflated in value. Now the access to that same credit has tightened, values are coming back to Planet Earth, and lots of people cannot buy or sell or refinance.

Apparently, that is not what you were saying, and you don't understand what I am saying. Let me try again.

I could have all the credit in the world extended to me, but if I can't make payments on a $500,000 mortgage, it's a MONEY problem, not a CREDIT problem.

However, if I have sufficient capital (MONEY) I can buy anything that is for sale.

The problem was caused, and continues to be caused, by people buying things they could not afford.

[Turquesa]

As to the OP's link, I was reading The Complete Tightwad Gazette, and Amy had an article entitled, "Is Frugality Bad for the Economy?" She makes a pretty solid case for our economy needing more savings and less "spendings."

In summary, she cites Paul Tsongas' argument that businesses require venture capital, which is "good debt" required for economic surplus. We lack venture capital because we overspend, which gets us in to debt, which requires a bail-out, which raises taxes and, very often, gets the government into debt.

What's also fueling this vicious cycle is the "outsourcing" of American jobs, a trend that that culminated with NAFTA and GATT and is continuing in countless other industrial sectors. The and short-sighted claim that we need to "spend our way" to prosperity, even if it means consumerism-by-credit, glosses over this fact.

During WWII, it was your patriotic duty to save and ration the nation's resources. Contrast that with today, when we "keep America rolling" by purchasing a gas guzzler. We've come a long way, baby.

It may require some gradual weaning, but as a nation, we need to stop relying on consumption to fuel our economy. Our current mentality in the long haul won't help the shopping mall pretzel stand employee--just the CEO of the pretzel stand franchise.

Forgive the meandering musings. If any good comes out of this Recession, it will be Americans rethinking their priorities.

[lucyem]

I see a big shift in how people are spending. I see a lot more people buying locally. I see more local farms springing up and more farmers markets. I see more people with gardens and chickens. I see more sources for chicks, more chicken coops for sale and heirloom seeds. I see people looking into buying solar/wind systems for their homes. I see many companies starting to sell systems. So I do see a change in how people are spending. People are paying attention to their money and the quality of what they get. In the long run I do think this will be a good thing. Its the in between time that will be tough as everything changes.

[sassafrass94]

I have a couple of random thoughts on this topic...

The first is that my ability to find newer things in great condition at thrift stores depends on someone else's careless consumerism. When people rid themselves of fashion and furniture to keep up with styles or the need to just have something newer- I'm able benefit by buying items that really have no defect other than someone else just not wanting them. Don't misunderstand. I don't think that we are operating in a sustainable economy and I don't prefer that people buy lots of things and just toss them away too soon. My thought (albeit a poorly articulated one ) is that I realize I can't rely on feeding off of someone else's excesses- especially if things really tank. I prefer an end to the excess, actually. When that happens. we will need to start making and producing things ourselves... Less things/ higher quality/ supporting local artisans etc. I guess my point here is that those of us who pride ourselves on being thrifty by going to value village- are still participating in an unsustainable system...

My next thought is similar to a pp. What would a sustainable economy look like? Sure, if we all started spending more consciously, alot of jobs WOULD be lost. Where could that working energy be used to benefit us more? I would hope that as we evolve (?) employment would migrate to new areas. Renewable energy? Solar panel manufacturing? We definitely will need more farmers! I've tried to imagine what a truly fair and sustainable economy would look like and think I may lack the vision or knowledge of economic systems to really wrap my brain around it. Does anyone have a vision they want to share?

Dang, I just proofread a little... I hope I'm not too off topic or off my rocker... Trying to condense months of musings before the oven timer goes off. There it goes.

[MamaMonica]

Originally Posted by sassafrass94

I have a couple of random thoughts on this topic...

The first is that my ability to find newer things in great condition at thrift stores depends on someone else's careless consumerism. When people rid themselves of fashion and furniture to keep up with styles or the need to just have something newer- I'm able benefit by buying items that really have no defect other than someone else just not wanting them. Don't misunderstand. I don't think that we are operating in a sustainable economy and I don't prefer that people buy lots of things and just toss them away too soon. My thought (albeit a poorly articulated one ) is that I realize I can't rely on feeding off of someone else's excesses- especially if things really tank. I prefer an end to the excess, actually. When that happens. we will need to start making and producing things ourselves... Less things/ higher quality/ supporting local artisans etc. I guess my point here is that those of us who pride ourselves on being thrifty by going to value village- are still participating in an unsustainable system...

Good points. I think about that a lot. We used to live in a suburb with a major mall and fairly affluent demographic. I could go into Value Village and pick up nice almost new clothes for myself and the kids.

Yet this is because someone else bought it and didn't use it. It's one of the strange sides to frugality in America.

[Pinoikoi]

When I spend money I always think about how long it took me to earn it and what snarky kid I had to put with for how long..

(that's MY quote!)

[EmsMom]

Originally Posted by MamaMonica

Good points. I think about that a lot. We used to live in a suburb with a major mall and fairly affluent demographic. I could go into Value Village and pick up nice almost new clothes for myself and the kids.

Yet this is because someone else bought it and didn't use it. It's one of the strange sides to frugality in America.

Yes, I think about this too. However, if everybody else lived like we do and, I might not feel the "need" to shop for newer stuff at the yard sales so that as a family we look "respectable". I mean, we live in a very high spending area and sometimes we just need new clothes so we don't stand out, yn? I personally am just as happy to wear my clothes until they fade away (within reason!). But is is possible that my kids could become complete outcasts if we live the very simple way we prefer. That is where the yard sale comes in. My poor dd is already aware that her not having a cell phone or an ipod (at age 9) makes her stand out a bit. And then, of course, when she finally gets one (an ipod, not probably ever a cell phone until she can pay for it herself), it would likely be an older model and therefore not quite "right". Personally, I don't really give a %^&* what people think of me, but I do feel a need to protect my kids, both from rampant comsumerism and from being ostracized. Sometimes it is a very tough call...