Question

[swissmom]

Over the weekend I had a very heated (but fair) debate with a pharmacist about the untold facts of immunization. One of my key argument was that

vaccines have not been proven to be safe by the same standards applied to other drugs: a double-blind, placebo-controlled investigation.

This is from Sherry Tenpennies new book, but I have also read in different sources that in vaccine trials the placebo is not an inert substance, but another vaccine with "known safety profile". The pharmacist said that this is not true, that in trials for new vaccines proper placebos are used. She said I am confusing this information with trials that compare new vaccines with existent vaccines in order to see how a new vaccine is safer than a competitor's.

Now I am really wondering if these are two separate things? Unfortunately, Sherry Tenpenny does not provide a resource for her above statement. Can anybody tell me if I am wrong? Can anybody provide me another resource other than the Tenpenny book which deals with vaccine safety? Thanks!

[ema-adama]

:

[kiwiva]

Well does he/she consider a proper placebo? I believe that the HPV vaccine for example uses an aluminum-containing injection for the control group, not saline or some other innocuous substance for the comparison. That doesn't sound like a good placebo to me. I read that in the manufacturer's description of the studies.

[mamakay]

Here's an example. Here's the Prevnar package insert:
http://www.wyeth.com/content/showlabeling.asp?id=134

The study they quote for safety is this:

http://www.ajmc.com/files/articlefil...ackS536_49.pdf

Efficacy, Safety, and Immunogenicity of Heptavalent
Pneumococcal Conjugate Vaccine in Children

Methods: The Wyeth Lederle
heptavalent CRM197 PCV was given
to infants at 2, 4, 6 and 12 to 15
months of age in a double-blind trial;
37,868 children were randomly
assigned 1:1 to receive either the
pneumococcal conjugate vaccine, or
meningococcus type C CRM197 conjugate.

[mamakay]

And they're about to change Prevnar to make it cover twice the number of serotypes...

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/N...ow_locs=Y#locn

The "placebo" for the new Prevnar is the old Prevnar...

ETA:
Good thread on this subject:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...760&highlight=

[swissmom]

Thanks ladies, these are awesome links!:
MDC moms are just an unbeatable team!

[I want truth!]

swissmom

Dear sissmom,

hi I wanted to know the name of the book you read by Dr. Sherry Tenpenny. I'm having trouble finding her material. I am currently doing lots of research on vaccinations. I just got a two DVD's pk full of information and referrals to info on vaccines. if your interested and I highly recommend it, just google "Are Vaccines Safe?" presented by Mary Tocco. an independent investigator for 27 years, mother of 5 kids.

[lovbeingamommy]

Here's Sherry's website if this helps. Her book is listed on the home page.

http://www.nmaseminars.com