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A friend's OB has a sign prohibiting doulas - Page 2

post #21 of 53
I think it's good. That way, the woman knows the dr's views up front and can decide whether to stay or go to a different dr.

As for the dr not having the right to decide who is there with the woman during childbirth... well, he's not saying she can't have her doula. He's saying she can have her doula but he won't be her dr. Just like some dr's won't take kids who aren't vaxed as patients. I see nothing wrong with a dr deciding that he wouldn't be a good fit for a patient.
post #22 of 53
Along with the dr letting potential patients know where he stands, it would be great if the hospitals did the same. When I was pregnant with my first, the OB was fine with me having a doula but the nurses at the hospital were incredibly RUDE! I remember noticing it while I was laboring and not being able to put the energy and thought into doing anything about it. In hindsight (it still bugs me), I wish I'd taken down the name of one particular nurse and written a letter to my OB and the hospital.

C'est la vie...
post #23 of 53
My question is how does he KNOW if it's a doula? I mean, lots of people have female family members and friends at their births to help them cope/celebrate with them...is he going to tell them they can't come? And what if I happen to want one of the doulas in town to be at my birth as a friend (because I do have friends who are doulas who would have come to my birth with just a phone call)? What then? It just seems really preposterous for him to think he can say who comes and who doesn't and to assume that he'll know who is in what role when he walks in the room and is only there for like 20 mintues!
post #24 of 53
Doulas have a negative stereotype among many OB docs/nurses (rightly or wrongly). Honestly, if I had a doula I would introduce her as a "friend" or "cousin" or something. That wouldn't get everyone's defenses up.
post #25 of 53
I have to agree with the people who've said this is great. One of my biggest concerns about using an OB is that he's just saying what I want to hear & that we'll be in for a nasty surprise when delivery comes along.

Ideally we could all have the supportive births of our dreams but the fact is that is not the atmosphere for many & I'd rather have the warning up front that it's not going to happen.
post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charmie981 View Post
My question is how does he KNOW if it's a doula? I mean, lots of people have female family members and friends at their births to help them cope/celebrate with them...is he going to tell them they can't come?
:

I have had my sisters as nonprofessional doulas, one was particularly an advocate for me during labor and the babe afterward for one birth. If I did have a paid doula I think I might say after it was over that "I'm so glad I had my wonderful DOULA with me!" to the nurse/midwife/doc.

I do agree that it is good for the doc to be up front about his biases. It is sad that that situation exists, but good for him/her to be candid about it. It lets informed consumers avoid him and at least there are no false hopes for the mom. I don't know whats more sad though, that there are docs like this still or that most moms just don't even ask, or seem to care.
post #27 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post
But how, in good conscience, can a doctor forbid his patients to have doulas when they've been proven to improve outcomes for women and babies? It's just mind-boggling.
The same way my friend doing her OB residency can say "I've been at midwife-attended births in the birth center, and I can see how much better they are for moms and babies, but I just don't have the patience for natural birth."

She likes all her patients to have epidurals. That way she doesn't have to listen to them in pain. : And she loves c-sections! She'll tell you all about it if you ask.

post #28 of 53
When I first got pregnant this time around, my ex-OB clinic actually sent me a letter talking about what to expect at my visits and basic things like nutrition. But then it had a condescending paragraph explaining why their clients shouldn't take Bradley classes.

While I wasn't sold on doing Bradley at the time, reading that was enough to make me rethink staying with them (I was going to stick around until I finished my first trimester).

I am very happy I switched to my birthing center for my first prenatal.
post #29 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post
But how, in good conscience, can a doctor forbid his patients to have doulas when they've been proven to improve outcomes for women and babies? It's just mind-boggling.
BC it's not always about "good conscience." It's about $$$.

Some of them *want* to do unnecessary interventions, bc it's more "convenient" (they can schedule it on their time) and/or brings in the big bucks.

I figured this out when I was being pressured to get a hysteroscopy for two *very* small uterine polyp—even though I had 2 second opinions who told me they were shocked bc they felt it was completely unnecessary. I realized this was how my ex-OB's clinic got extra money to pay for their 10 doctor's lexus' and the fancy interior design jobs done in their office.

Bc of all the myths fed to us by the media, a lot of women (and men) get fooled into believing all doctors are kind and have their patients' best interests at heart. While that is how it's supposed to be, it's not reality... Just like it's not reality that the news/media is always supposed to be unbiased when it comes to releasing stories (especially about politics and celebrities).

After my experience, I won't be going to a GYN/OB again—unless a midwife or family doctor refers me to one for a specific reason. It is a big conflict of interest that the doctor who does the diagnosing also gets $$$ for doing surgeries.

This isn't to say there aren't spectacular OBs who exist. There are. They, however, aren't easy to find, and sometimes can have motives or practices that change as they are human.
post #30 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by VeganCupcake View Post
But how, in good conscience, can a doctor forbid his patients to have doulas when they've been proven to improve outcomes for women and babies? It's just mind-boggling.
Yup. Mind-boggling. It still boggles my mind how docs can do SO MANY various bad things for L&D patients, even though I've known about it for nearly a year now, since I was shocked to learn that "nothing-by-mouth" & continuous EFM were standards for ALL births at the world-renowned Johns Hopkins Bayview hospital.
It's just the way of modern American modernity care... and it MUST CHANGE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
How much time do ppl think about how to decorate the nursery or what kind of stroller they want? but child birth??? leave that to the "professionals".

My DH says, "People put more research & thought into buying a car than having a baby!" Your nursery decoration example is equally applicable. So true, and so very very sad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romana9+2 View Post
The same way my friend doing her OB residency can say "...
OK, this is gonna sound nasty, but personally.. I could not be friends with someone like that. The way the average American OB treats laboring & birthing Mamas makes me sick. Literally ill & furious. I couldn't bring myself to associate in a friendly way with someone who would have such an outlook:
"I know what is much better for my patients - both Moms & babes- but I just don't care."
WHAT THE?!?!

What ever happened to the hippocratic oath?! "First, do no harm." <sigh>
post #31 of 53
Well, honestly I'm not surprised. Why would a practitioner want someone who is going to interfere with his assembly-line method of practice? Those pesky doulas - always stopping women from getting all the convenient drugs and interventions that make an OB's job SO MUCH EASIER.

Yeah, yeah, I know, not all OBs are like that, but it sure sounds like this one is. I hope lots of women take that sign as a cue to run far far away!
post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2annika View Post
I agree the OB gets some credit for being upfront, but still...is this OB going to prohibit clients with MILs next?
Lord, I hope so.
Kidding!

But really, why doesn't he just put up a sign:

I do not accept patients who have researched about normal physiological birth; those who wish to avoid epidurals, induction, forceps, vacuums, scalpels, and the like; those with any sort of intelligence or passion; and those who do not understand that I have been appointed the supreme power over your birth experience. Thank you.
post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post
Moving to Birth and Beyond, since this isn't really a DDC-specific conversation.

It's awful though. I can't imagine an OB having the right to put a limit on who can support a woman through her birth. How paternalistic.
That is what I was thinking.
post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2annika View Post
I have heard doulas referred to as "ambulance chasers" and "something you don't really need." My insurance company insisted it "wasn't medically necessary" (yet an epidural was, in their opinion, "medically necessary" and therefore covered.) I paid for the doula myself and would absolutely do so again. Unfortunately, now I'm pg again and she's retired. Hubby really hit it off with her though, and she's said she'll give him a quick refresher before this new one arrives.
:
post #35 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by MegBoz View Post
OK, this is gonna sound nasty, but personally.. I could not be friends with someone like that. The way the average American OB treats laboring & birthing Mamas makes me sick. Literally ill & furious. I couldn't bring myself to associate in a friendly way with someone who would have such an outlook:
"I know what is much better for my patients - both Moms & babes- but I just don't care."
WHAT THE?!?!

What ever happened to the hippocratic oath?! "First, do no harm." <sigh>
I get that. OTOH, I can have more positive influence by being a part of her life than not. We've been friends for about 15 years. She's sort of an odd duck and has a lack of basic empathy. I was horrified when she said she wanted to be a doctor, and only moreso when she said OB. When she wanted to perform abortions, I thought, ok, here is someone with the mindset who can do this job all day long and be okay with it. There are women who need her services. But she enjoys c-sections so much that she is probably going to stay in OB. : Sometimes people online accuse me of making her up - that no one would say that. The fact is that she just has less restraint on her inner monologue and says stuff out loud that most people wouldn't admit to. At least she says it and I can call her on it.

I've already corrected her on how to care for an intact newborn's penis. Thank goodness she isn't going around telling people you have to retract and clean underneath every single diaper change (and yes, this is what she was taught!).

I'm secretly hoping I can convince her to do gyn-oncology, but it may not be possible as she's not crazy about the extra years required.
post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post


my thought on the client is that this is one of the MAJOR impediments to the maternity crisis care in the US. How much time do ppl think about how to decorate the nursery or what kind of stroller they want? but child birth??? leave that to the "professionals". just one of my pet peeves I guess.

True.
post #37 of 53
That's so wrong. But not surprising at all.



My first OB actually passed out a flier at the first office visit, strongly urging all her clients to hire a doula. She would recommend specific ones if you asked, but didn't push her choices.

FWIW, she also passed out fliers advertising a Bradley class she thought was very good.

She had her faults, but I still feel lucky I wound up there and not with some of the other UA violations that are out there. I was as uninformed as they come, then, and would have been easy bait for some OB's "professional" opinions.
post #38 of 53
There are two OB practices around here who have a sign like that. It also prohibits Bradley classes. I think it's good for them to be up front about their preferences because if I came into a practice I didn't know well and saw that I'd know enough to turn myself right around.

When asked about why they have this policy, one OB waxed eloquent about how their patients' safety is so important so they can't recommend doulas or the Bradley method since those things introduce risk for mother and baby. He just doesn't want women who know to say no to things like c-section and episiotomy. This particular doc is the forceps king (with a nice, big cut of course). The other half of his deliveries are c-sections.
post #39 of 53
honestly I think it's helpful... it speak VOLUMES about what kinda OB it was and let's me know right off the bat I'd wanna stay clear! and I would be able to let everyone else I know know about it as well.
post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_Lil_Mamma View Post
BC it's not always about "good conscience." It's about $$$.

Some of them *want* to do unnecessary interventions, bc it's more "convenient" (they can schedule it on their time) and/or brings in the big bucks.

I figured this out when I was being pressured to get a hysteroscopy for two *very* small uterine polyp—even though I had 2 second opinions who told me they were shocked bc they felt it was completely unnecessary. I realized this was how my ex-OB's clinic got extra money to pay for their 10 doctor's lexus' and the fancy interior design jobs done in their office.
Just like at the auto mechanics!

Like someone said about the doula telling the OB how to do his job, there is an article on mothering.com about an OB saying "it's okay as long as she doesn't forget who's in charge!" The woman called her doula and told her what the OB said. The doula said "I won't forget who's in charge...YOU are!"
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