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Well baby visits VS not going - Page 2

post #21 of 37
10/15/08 at 5:32pm
I just don't want to change the whole reason for this thread. And I didn't realize I would be insulting anyone or inviting insults.
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post #22 of 37
10/15/08 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckumelos View Post
I just don't want to change the whole reason for this thread. And I didn't realize I would be insulting anyone or inviting insults.
Hey, I just PMed you.
post #23 of 37
10/15/08 at 5:54pm
I do selective vax but I take them to wellchild just because I love to see how much they have grown and to make sure thier growth is on track. But that is just me
post #24 of 37
10/15/08 at 6:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckumelos View Post
If you screw up enough to get them in your life in the first place - you can go ahead and kiss goodbye any control you have over the way your children are raised.
Wow. Yes, that was insulting.

Rather than make a UAV comment, I will stick with facts - you do retain parental rights for most medical decisions unless/until your parental rights are revoked by the state. Which means nobody can, for instance, force you to vaccinate your children (depending on the state.)

The only thing worse than having the system invade your life is when they invade your life and take longer than a year to realize that they weren't needed in the first place.

And now I'm going to back away before I say something nasty.
post #25 of 37
10/15/08 at 6:43pm
My mother routinely took custody of children away and THEN investigated. She didn't do it the other way around. She awarded custody back when the parent proved they were "fit" by doing everything the states way. Perhaps I have been exposed to an overzealous wing of CPS??

If you do well baby care for the benefit of CPS, I don't think that will be the clincher to decide whether you are a fit parent. Having been on the CPS side of this issue, and I asked my mother about this issue just a few minutes ago, and she said if you do not do what CPS wants you to do, they are likely NOT to give you back custody of your children. And unless you can afford a lawyer to fight them based on the LAW - good luck trying to elicit any sympathy.
post #26 of 37
10/15/08 at 6:49pm
I would just check "up to date" then later when they ask for the records I'd say "I am religiously opposed to the practice of vaccination (if necessary "I will not discuss my religion with you"). If they ask why you checked "up to date" I'd say that to check no would imply that your children are following a schedule but are not current. They are "up to date" on your schedule which contains no vaccines due to your religious opposition. There are plenty of moms here on state aid, and giving a letter of religious opposition takes care of it. I have not heard any stories of the state calling CPS, though TAO is the board where those usually come up.


For those worried about CPS being called for not vaxing and other non-mainstream practices:

Child Abuse and Neglect Statues
http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwi...tate/index.cfm

Quote:
http://sayingnotovaccines.blogspot.c...regarding.html
The Arizona State Court of Appeals has slapped down efforts by Child Protective Services to have a youngster in foster care immunized over a parent's objections....

Potentially more sweeping, the judge said the laws that allow the state to take temporary custody of a child specifically spell out what powers and responsibilities that includes. These range from the right of physical custody and the right to discipline the child to the requirement to provide adequate food, clothing, shelter and medical care. Eckerstrom said anything not on that list remains the right of the biological parent.

Find a Lawyer referral under "Services"
http://www.falseallegation.org/services.htm

Parents Guide to Dealing With CPS

http://www.familyrightsassociation.c...parents_guide/
Fighting Child Protective Services False Accusations
http://www.fightcps.com/

CPS Watch -- Legal Forms
http://web.archive.org/web/200306021...ms/default.asp
post #27 of 37
10/15/08 at 6:49pm
This is Texas stand on CPS rights - note that is is whether the CPS worker beleives there is danger - not can prove it on any factual basis. Stick to facts when it comes to CPS?? CPS doesn't use facts. I highlighted in red what they are likely to state about not vaccinating, whether or not you had WBC.

Quote:
CPS is allowed by law to remove children for abuse and neglect or for being at risk of abuse or neglect only after a court orders it or when there is no time consistent with the health and safety of the child to obtain a court order and the person taking possession of the child has sufficient knowledge or reason to believe:

there is an immediate danger to the physical health or safety of the child;
the child has been the victim of sexual abuse;
the person with possession of the child is currently using a controlled substance and the use constitutes an immediate danger to the physical health or safety of the child; or
the person with possession of the child has permitted the child to remain on premises used for the manufacture of methamphetamines.
post #28 of 37
10/15/08 at 6:55pm
Emmaline has the best thing there - BE PREPARED !
post #29 of 37
10/15/08 at 7:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckumelos View Post
This is Texas stand on CPS rights - note that is is whether the CPS worker beleives there is danger - not can prove it on any factual basis. Stick to facts when it comes to CPS?? CPS doesn't use facts. I highlighted in red what they are likely to state about not vaccinating, whether or not you had WBC.
From Texas vax law on this issue:

GOVERNMENT CODE
SUBTITLE I. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES
CHAPTER 531. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES COMMISSION
§ 531.0335 (2007)
§ 531.0335. Prohibition on Punitive Action for Failure to Immunize
(a) In this section:

(1) "Person responsible for a child's care, custody, or welfare" has the meaning assigned by Section 261.001, Family Code.
(2) "Punitive action" includes the initiation of an investigation of a person responsible for a child's care, custody, or welfare for alleged or suspected abuse or neglect of a child.

(b) The commissioner by rule shall prohibit a health and human services agency from taking a punitive action against a person responsible for a child's care, custody, or welfare for failure of the person to ensure that the child receives the immunization series prescribed by Section 161.004, Health and Safety Code.
(c) This section does not affect a law, including Chapter 31, Human Resources Code, that specifically provides a punitive action for failure to ensure that a child receives the immunization series prescribed by Section 161.004, Health and Safety Code.
post #30 of 37
10/15/08 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckumelos View Post
My mother routinely took custody of children away and THEN investigated. She didn't do it the other way around. She awarded custody back when the parent proved they were "fit" by doing everything the states way. Perhaps I have been exposed to an overzealous wing of CPS??

If you do well baby care for the benefit of CPS, I don't think that will be the clincher to decide whether you are a fit parent. Having been on the CPS side of this issue, and I asked my mother about this issue just a few minutes ago, and she said if you do not do what CPS wants you to do, they are likely NOT to give you back custody of your children. And unless you can afford a lawyer to fight them based on the LAW - good luck trying to elicit any sympathy.
Exactly - take the kid away and THEN investigate. And, in the event that your kid(s) are taken away, any and everything you have done in regards to raising those children will be brought under intense scrutiny, by people who most likely do not share the beliefs of the people who generally make up this message board.

Let's face it, when it comes to vaxing, the general population usually thinks that it's nuts that there are people who don't vax, for whatever reason. CPS wasn't brought into my personal life because we stopped vaxing, but they sure put up a big fuss when I handed over my daughter's medical records (which I was more than happy to do, knowing I had done nothing wrong) and they saw that she was "behind" on her vaccinations. Forget the fact that the doctor didn't put up a fuss about it, that she was otherwise perfectly healthy and meeting her milestones, they harped and harped on that stupid MMR vaccination for MONTHS.

The law itself is written in the state I lived in when this happened so that I had a viable reason to opt out. I'm assuming your mother goes to court for her CPS cases, and it's pretty well-known that unless the case goes to trial, all sorts of things are allowed to be admitted into evidence (including hearsay), and that the proceedings are not run strictly by the law. I don't know how many times I was told, "That's just the way it is." Doesn't make it right.

Doing or not doing well baby visits isn't the clincher, and I don't think anyone said that. But I'd rather put up a fight about the vaccinations (which my not-so-cheap attorney, who I really COULDN'T afford, but I had no choice if I wanted my kid back, DID have to put up a fight about, based on THE LAW) than have to put up a fight about never taking the kids to a visit at all.

For the basis of this discussion, and the OP's original question, it is a heck of a lot better, in my opinion and my experience, to have a stack of medical records rather than none, in the event that CPS is brought into your life for whatever reason. Does it mean they will stay out? Absolutely not. But when you're searching for a battle to win, clean medical records are a good thing to have on your side.
post #31 of 37
10/16/08 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlwaysByMySide View Post
Exactly - take the kid away and THEN investigate. And, in the event that your kid(s) are taken away, any and everything you have done in regards to raising those children will be brought under intense scrutiny, by people who most likely do not share the beliefs of the people who generally make up this message board.

Let's face it, when it comes to vaxing, the general population usually thinks that it's nuts that there are people who don't vax, for whatever reason. CPS wasn't brought into my personal life because we stopped vaxing, but they sure put up a big fuss when I handed over my daughter's medical records (which I was more than happy to do, knowing I had done nothing wrong) and they saw that she was "behind" on her vaccinations. Forget the fact that the doctor didn't put up a fuss about it, that she was otherwise perfectly healthy and meeting her milestones, they harped and harped on that stupid MMR vaccination for MONTHS.

The law itself is written in the state I lived in when this happened so that I had a viable reason to opt out. I'm assuming your mother goes to court for her CPS cases, and it's pretty well-known that unless the case goes to trial, all sorts of things are allowed to be admitted into evidence (including hearsay), and that the proceedings are not run strictly by the law. I don't know how many times I was told, "That's just the way it is." Doesn't make it right.

Doing or not doing well baby visits isn't the clincher, and I don't think anyone said that. But I'd rather put up a fight about the vaccinations (which my not-so-cheap attorney, who I really COULDN'T afford, but I had no choice if I wanted my kid back, DID have to put up a fight about, based on THE LAW) than have to put up a fight about never taking the kids to a visit at all.

For the basis of this discussion, and the OP's original question, it is a heck of a lot better, in my opinion and my experience, to have a stack of medical records rather than none, in the event that CPS is brought into your life for whatever reason. Does it mean they will stay out? Absolutely not. But when you're searching for a battle to win, clean medical records are a good thing to have on your side.
:

Everything I have heard and seen about CPS ending up in your life for some random or unbased reason lends me to believe you better have everything you can get your hands on if you want your kids back in one piece.
post #32 of 37
10/16/08 at 9:28pm
Yikes--I hadn't really thought about CPS regarding this. My DS went to WBV until about a year old--we stopped vaccinating after his 4-month old WBV, switched from a pedi to a family practice doctor, and then did 6 month, 9 month, 12 month and maybe 15 month WBV with her--but I just stopped going because I thought it was stupid to bring him into the germy office for no reason. I know he's fine. My mom was telling me I need to bring him in for a 2 year WBV but I wasn't planning on it--maybe I should?
post #33 of 37
10/19/08 at 10:57pm
What if one had medicaid and never took baby to doctor? We have medicaid and i dont plan on taking babe to doc..unless he is sick. MW did well baby at one week and 2 weeks. I'm a Lactation Consultant and feel that i have enough medical knowledge to know if and when i should seek medical assistance. I dont plan on going unless we have too.
post #34 of 37
10/20/08 at 12:33am
One thing I would add is that I think WBV are a good idea for the small probability that something IS wrong that might not be apparent. I know a friend who has 3 children who was blind-sided when her pediatrician discovered her youngest daughter had a murmur at her 1 y.o. WBV.

I also like WBV to buttress my case if the ER makes a report. I know at our local hospital their policy is any child seen for a head injury is reported to CPS. A nurse even admitted they capture lots of innocent families but they figure that way if the child falls off the bed for a second or third time and hits their head, they can show a pattern of these types of accidents and thus failure to supervise, etc. My child fell off the gurney at the ER when I broke my arm. (Please don't even comment on it . . . I had 2 y.o. twins, was in excruciating pain, and my son fell trying to get on.) I thought they were going to call CPS, though a friend who is a nurse said she thought they were so enraged because they would get in trouble for having a single mother with a broken arm supervising 2 toddlers alone. I was just glad I had someone on the staff at hte hosptial (my pediatrician) who could stand up and say something on my behalf.
post #35 of 37
10/20/08 at 12:05pm
I'm in the middle of trying to figure out what to do now.

my 7 month old twins aren't vaccinated and we're fine with that issue. At the 4 month check up, we realized one of our twins has torticollis so we were referred to an ortho surgeon. Turns out she has hip dysplasia as well. Her first appt was on their 6 month birthdate, so we never made the 6 month appt. Now they're 7 months and still haven't had a WBV. We found a new doctor we like (pro vax choice) but haven't gone to him yet because I still have an existing referral from the horrible doctor. If I switch now, I will be stuck in referral hell, because the referral will be coming from a doctor we don't see anymore. Baby will be in treatment, physical therapy with follow ups for the next 6 months, and I don't know what I should do until then.

Maybe get Baby A in with the new doc and explain to him that I can't do anything with baby B until after her treatment is finished? I like the ortho surgeon (because he's trying to treat her without surgery and she LOVES him!) and it's at the top local children's hospital. But I don't know what to do about Baby A who is completely fine, just behind in her WBVs.
post #36 of 37
10/20/08 at 3:30pm
Our doc gave us the " You DO know that vax doesn't cause autism, right?" spiel. I told him that yes, I did, but it can still harm an infant or child, and it goes against everything I believe about how the body works to heal itself. He said "You're the parent - but I went to school for this and it's really the best thing for him. We'll discuss it the next time you come in."

:

I wanted to say something snarky, but I just haven't been back.
post #37 of 37
10/20/08 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeisnotapirate View Post
:

I wanted to say something snarky, but I just haven't been back.
I don't blame you for not going back! How incredibly rude and condescending of him. He might as well have tousled your hair and given you a lollipop on your way out. Ugh.

Alternately, you could have responded, "Well, I carried him in my body for nine months, gave birth to him, and have been his primary caregiver since the day he was born. I am his mother and I know what's best for him. Thanks for your concern but we won't be discussing this again."
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