Bail out-What are you stocking up on III--support group - Page 3

[Jenivere]

I think we should start a thread about this is mindful home management and leave N&CE to be the debate forum that it is. Then anyone who wants to debate the merits of stockpiling vs. stocking up vs. homesteading is welcome too.

[marimara]

We have a Flashlight/radio combo from LL Bean (this one-http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...rom=SR&feat=sr

and we like it so far. You have to crank for like 60 seconds though. It also has a siren on it!

[whalemilk]

I'm intrigued, as someone who took a lot of social psych but didn't specialize in it, to think of the effects it might have on an individual vis a vis her community if she's thinking the world is on the decline and she's prepared, her neighbors aren't, and she's prepared to at the least ward them off and in the worst case maybe even shoot them to protect her stash of flour, beans, and Culligan water.

I don't know about anyone else, but the people above me have a 18 month old, and the people below me have a 2 year old. I can't imagine looking at them and thinking they're walking ghosts because they weren't as paranoid as I was. Like "tough crap, kiddo, too bad your parents didn't read peakoilpanicshoppinglist.net!"

[captain crunchy]

Oh on Charlie too -- one of the reasons I don't think it is crazy to be prepared to protect yourself is that we saw people fighting over bags of ice down here -- like seriously coming to blows and threats of lives over... ICE. --- and that disaster only lasted for a couple of weeks for most people (until most power was restored and supplies were able to get in).

[marimara]

I think most people here will be willing to share if needed. But not like I'm going to give you my last gallon of milk or anything. I think that most of us realize that having a community or small village on your side gives you much more of an advantage in any situation like we are talking about. That's part of the reason we are here talking about it, if we really wanted to hoard and be paranoid than we would just not say anything and go quietly about our ways. We want to help people understand that we are living in tumultuous times.

[claras_mom]

Originally Posted by captain crunchy

On topic, I want a hand crank radio dealie too. When we were out of power for nearly 2 weeks during Charlie of '04, that would have been so useful -- for cell phone charging too.

I don't see the bailout leading to widespread shortages and the end of life as we know it. Planning carefully for the possibility of job loss/layoff, yes; total collapse, not so much. But that's just my opinion. Makes a lot more sense to me to worry about natural disasters common to one's area and be prepared for that. Having a good plan for hurricanes and tornados saves a lot of grief when they actually happen. Around here, it's wildfires and (rarely) earthquakes and the odd really major mudslide.

That last was driven home to me this summer, with a wildfire practically in our backyard.

[whalemilk]

Originally Posted by wednesday2004

One question for all sceptics; is the fact that people are nervous about the future upsetting you? Is it a threat to you somehow? Is it shaking your idea that the world can and will be secure no matter what? Does it help relieve that stress by insulting people who are nervous?

Actually, while I don't entertain any personal endtimes scenarios, I'm probably more of a pessmist than any of you. I expect, if there really is anarchy, social collapse, and famine, I will probably die and so will my children. I expect this because having studied history, I know that we--a woman and two very young children who live below the poverty line--are among those who are almost always first to go in such a situation. We do not have the power, strength, or resources to defend ourselves against the gangs of men that would run rampant in such a situation.

[happyhippiemama]

Originally Posted by wednesday2004

Mamawindmill, did you ever hear the phrase 'prepare for the worst but hope for the best'.

That's not what people are doing in this thread, as MW pointed out. Ya'll are talking about preparing for a famine, and very little else.

[marimara]

I think that maybe some skeptics might also consider reading Chris Martenson (he has the Crash Course). He explains in very simple terms, how peak oil combined with national debt, rampant unregulation of the banking industry, global climate change, all culminated in an era that means-well we don't know what it means-We can only suspect that it might be as bad as Argentina. Read the website I posted upstream. These are first hand examples of what it's like living in a Developed world in an economic collapse. It is not beyond the realm of possibility. There is nothing written in stone that the U.S. will remain the wealthiest nation on Earth for all of eternity. Our govt has made major mistakes in recent years and they are coming to a head right now. Check out CNN. It's on the news, people. This is the beginning. It's not the end of the world but there is reason to be a tad nervous. We combat nervousness and anxiety by being prepared.
The DOW hit 9000 this week, the scary part is that it also hit 10000 this week. Happening pretty fast IMO. I know alot of the stock stuff is investor panic but it's not reassuring to the rest of us for sure.

Kunstler's Book-The Long Emergency is a pretty good read too.

[annethcz]

As for the question about hand-crank flashlight/radios, you can find them for cheaper than at LL Bean. I have a couple, one of which also has a cell phone charger, that were purchased on clearance at Target a few years ago. They all have LED bulbs and are all still in good condition after being used for numerous camping trips. If you look at the Target website you'll see that there are several models for sale for $20 and under.

[Jenivere]

I am not talking about preparing for a famine, I am talking about giving my family a cushion against hard economic times.

[thixle]

Originally Posted by happyhippiemama

That's not what people are doing in this thread, as MW pointed out. Ya'll are talking about preparing for a famine, and very little else.

Hmmm... for some reason, I thought people were talking about preparing for possible food/money shortages... not exactly famine, which would leave all of us gardeners out anyway... aren't most famines weather related?

And I really do want to say something (again) about "foraging." It may be hard to understand, if you've never lived in the country, or never been poor, or, or, or... but there are MANY people who "forage" for food. Whether it is hunting, wild-berry picking, or eating weeds. I'm honestly getting a few good laughs over here because I'll have the joy of eating fresh, wild paw-paws next weekend, and some are scoffing at the idea, thinking I'm some kind of nutter. What in the world is wrong with eating wild? What is wrong with herbal medicine? What is wrong with wanting to increase knowledge? What is wrong with wanting to prepare for economic or natural emergencies?

I really don't get it. As someone who grew up poor, yeah, food and shelter are my main priorities. You should try doing without them sometime, then look at your kids and say "well, babe, we'll be the first to go."

[OhMeOhMy]

Can anyone name a book that would be good to purchase re:
1. easy simple meals (a previous post mentioned simpler, tastier meals to stretch)
2. what to stock and how to store it
3. thrifty things to do to save/stretch money
4. not sure how to put this, but a "how to get through meager times" type book. maybe a btdt from the 30's?

I have some links, but I would like to have some books in hand to refer to. Because if TSHT for real, chances are internet will be the first cut back me make.

[marimara]

I'm all for foraging! I wish I had nut trees in my yard but there are lots of walnut and pecan trees around here and I am not above getting me some!

There's not much I can gather in my immediate area, but I do know how to catch, clean,and cook a fish.

I think alot of us will have to think about urban survival and what that means (I do).
It means having a small stockpile of food the keep you going to till it's safe to go out (worst case scenario here). It means protection for your family against anyone who may wish to take what you have. It means access to clean potable water and first aid/medications.

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by OhMeOhMy

Can anyone name a book that would be good to purchase re:
1. easy simple meals (a previous post mentioned simpler, tastier meals to stretch)
2. what to stock and how to store it
3. thrifty things to do to save/stretch money
4. not sure how to put this, but a "how to get through meager times" type book. maybe a btdt from the 30's?

I have some links, but I would like to have some books in hand to refer to. Because if TSHT for real, chances are internet will be the first cut back me make.

The Complete Tightwad Gazette really is an amazing resource. I have another called "Miserly Moms," but that's mostly just good for the recipes. TG will give you a wealth of info - my problem with 30s-era books is that they sometimes don't include info like temperature settings, or use terms that I have to look up!

[thixle]

Originally Posted by OhMeOhMy

Can anyone name a book that would be good to purchase re:
1. easy simple meals (a previous post mentioned simpler, tastier meals to stretch)
2. what to stock and how to store it
3. thrifty things to do to save/stretch money
4. not sure how to put this, but a "how to get through meager times" type book. maybe a btdt from the 30's?

My local public library has lots of books on these topics. Especially books on how to stretch your dollar. Just check the homemaking/cooking/food storage section... could just be because I live in a fairly low-income area that our library has so many books on the subject, though.
And I love going to the library for free entertainment, and to look for books I would actually like to invest in

[whalemilk]

Oh my mother grew up shooting squirrels for food--in rural Washington, 60 years ago. Discharging firearms for any purpose in a city setting is quite a different idea.

It's not that I have some elitist idea that foraging for food is undignified or something, it's that it's a kind of far out and ridiculous option for a large bulk of the population, and imagining a scenario in which one really would be walking around downtown Seattle, or Minneapolis, or San Diego shooting squirrels for meat is kind of...out there.

[captain crunchy]

Originally Posted by thixle

And I really do want to say something (again) about "foraging." It may be hard to understand, if you've never lived in the country, or never been poor, or, or, or... but there are MANY people who "forage" for food. Whether it is hunting, wild-berry picking, or eating weeds. I'm honestly getting a few good laughs over here because I'll have the joy of eating fresh, wild paw-paws next weekend, and some are scoffing at the idea, thinking I'm some kind of nutter. What in the world is wrong with eating wild? What is wrong with herbal medicine? What is wrong with wanting to increase knowledge? What is wrong with wanting to prepare for economic or natural emergencies?

I really don't get it. As someone who grew up poor, yeah, food and shelter are my main priorities. You should try doing without them sometime, then look at your kids and say "well, babe, we'll be the first to go."

I don't get it either.

You know, my mother in law was years before her time relating to gardening organically, preserving seeds, theorizing and predicting the food monopoly of chemical companies owning most of the world's food supply -- etc ... I know there were people in her day who thought she was absolutely *mad* -- now, it is actually *illegal* to have certain seeds in your possession because they are patented by chemical companies and so on.

Also, re: guns. They don't scare me (I mean that someone owns them). I am not going to run screaming in the opposite direction because someone says they keep firearms. My husband grew up with weapons - guns, bows and arrows, knives etc and their family hasn't shot any neighbors yet They aren't paranoid in the least. They just use their second amendment right accordingly. I find it extremely scary : to believe that the government should be the only ones *allowed* weapons.

You know one of the first things Hitler did when he came to power was enact strong gun control laws. I mean, he was smart in that way -- when you plan on screwing a whole lot of people over, you really want to render the masses unarmed -- control their food supply, control their money, and then tell them everything is cool and nothing is going to happen.

I am not suggesting that we are in another wwII situation (yet! We sure don't have a lot of friends left around the world that's for sure) -- but I will say with assuredness that the economy is in trouble. I think anyone who is arguing that at this point is off their gourds.

What the fall out from that will be, no one knows *for sure* -- but I am certainly not putting my bets on everyone being *prosperous* for the next couple years.

[StacyL]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

What do you think could happen that would lead to a worst-case scenario? Would this take place suddenly, or over a longer period of time? I just wonder how having two large boxes of instant oatmeal would legitimately stave off the possibility of starvation in such an event.

With all due respect, I think you underestimate how quickly things can turn on a dime, and how that would directly impact your daily existence.

And I am not even talking about WORST CASE SCENARIO.

It's really simple:

If the banking system is put on a "holiday" to slow the panic, if you do not happen to have gas in your car, and some stored in your shed, groceries in your house and stored, and cash on hand IN YOUR HOME you will not be able to:

-get to work if you still have a job

-go to the grocery store to buy food

-won't be able to buy said groceries or gas if you have no cash. All transactions will be cash only.

-won't be able to pay your bills (no cash, and no access to your money)

Then what happens next is the supply chain for EVERYTHING begins to break down, leading to shortages of food and gas, which will thereby drive up the prices of what's available assuming you can even find some!

You should read this:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

Raise cash now and be prepared for potential essential good and service disruptions as the supply pipelines could begin to go dry on these as soon as early next week.

We are facing a global DEPRESSION and the cut-off of essential goods and services in this nation if we do not stop this lunacy immediately.

Please understand - the TRUCKER who has a full load of food headed for your grocer REQUIRES commercial credit in order to fill his truck with diesel.

The local GAS STATION owner REQUIRES commercial credit to fill his underground storage tank.

The local CAR DEALER REQUIRES commercial credit to have cars - and parts - in his dealership. No credit, no car - and no car repairs.

The manufacturer over in China REQUIRES commercial credit (letters of credit from the buyer's bank) to be able to ship those goods to America, where you can buy them. If the bank over there won't take the LOC from the bank over here, suddenly you have no tires, DVDs and other similar products to buy.

IF THESE MARKETS DO NOT IMMEDIATELY UNFREEZE THE CONSEQUENCE WILL BE THAT FOOD AND FUEL, ALONG WITH ALL OTHER MANNER OF CONSUMER PRODUCTS, MAY NOT FLOW TO YOUR GROCERY STORE AND GAS STATION.

[marimara]

Originally Posted by whalemilk

Oh my mother grew up shooting squirrels for food--in rural Washington, 60 years ago. Discharging firearms for any purpose in a city setting is quite a different idea.

It's not that I have some elitist idea that foraging for food is undignified or something, it's that it's a kind of far out and ridiculous option for a large bulk of the population, and imagining a scenario in which one really would be walking around downtown Seattle, or Minneapolis, or San Diego shooting squirrels for meat is kind of...out there.

That's why urban survival is different from rural survival. In an urban setting it's more important to have a stock of supplies, protection, basic medical care, clean water. Since it's not practical to go shootin' squirrels in downtown Philly, it's safer to have 10lbs of dried beans and rice. Being vegetarian is going to be safer anyways since the quality of meat may be questionable from your grocer (if you can get any). Plus its cheaper and can be stored without electricity.