Bail out-What are you stocking up on III--support group - Page 5

[Chi-Chi Mama]

Sorry this is sort of OT.. but I've been thinking about stockpiling, saving cash, etc. How do you balance that $-wise with other, non-essential things - I"m thinking about dd's dance class, her piano lessons, etc. I know we're doing pretty well to be able to afford those extras, but we've cut other things to be able to afford it. We have food to eat and to buy extra to set aside, but now I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pay $200 for dd's next session of piano lessons this coming Monday or use that to do more food stockpiling. It's such a fine line and I keep going back and forth....

[annethcz]

Originally Posted by whalemilk

I hear people talking about electricity and clean water not being available...and about their stash of rice. No clean water, I guess we're making rice over a campfire (where? oh I guess in order to survive you need your own yard) with cholera water, nice.

It's this kind of juxtaposition that worries me, actually. It says to me that people are not being rational.

You can use a camp stove or perhaps a solar oven on your apartment balcony. Assuming that you have a good place to put one, a solar oven is the smarter investment because it doesn't require any fuel (beyond the sun) to work. ETA: you can find instructions on how to make a solar oven on the internet for $10-20.

As for water, you can invest in a water purifier. At the very least, a gallon of bleach would disinfect a LOT of rain- or pondwater, adding a few drops of bleach for each gallon of water. If you do have the means to boil the water, it will kill bacteria in the water, although it won't remove polutants.

[marimara]

Originally Posted by annethcz

You can use a camp stove or perhaps a solar oven on your apartment balcony. Assuming that you have a good place to put one, a solar oven is the smarter investment because it doesn't require any fuel (beyond the sun) to work.

As for water, you can invest in a water purifier. At the very least, a gallon of bleach would disinfect a LOT of rain- or pondwater, adding a few drops of bleach for each gallon of water. If you do have the means to boil the water, it will kill bacteria in the water, although it won't remove polutants.

Speaking of which, I don't normally use bleach in the home but I might get a gallon for water purification, emergency use.

You can build a fire in your fireplace(!) if you have one, or even in a tall pot and rig up some kind of system to boil water if you don't have a place to make a traditional fire (i.e. outside, camp stove, solar oven, etc.)

But also, people who are stockpiling rice are are also stockpiling water or at least ways to purify collected water.

[MamaWindmill]

Folks with fireplaces should probably have them inspected before use if they don't use them presently.

[whalemilk]

http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...UCT&itemID=948

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...0&CS_010=69486

Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.

Anyhow, where do you get the water to purify if the supply has been cut off? I mean it doesn't rain THAT much, even in Portland. And it would take a couple days to walk down to the river and back.

[dancebaraka]

Originally Posted by Chi-Chi Mama

Sorry this is sort of OT.. but I've been thinking about stockpiling, saving cash, etc. How do you balance that $-wise with other, non-essential things - I"m thinking about dd's dance class, her piano lessons, etc. I know we're doing pretty well to be able to afford those extras, but we've cut other things to be able to afford it. We have food to eat and to buy extra to set aside, but now I'm wondering if I should go ahead and pay $200 for dd's next session of piano lessons this coming Monday or use that to do more food stockpiling. It's such a fine line and I keep going back and forth....

I have been thinking of this too, as we have been remodeling an apt flat and purchasing things that are most certainly not necessary. I figure, enjoy spending the $$ on what I want in the here and now, *and* consider the future at the same time. I think your dd should enjoy her lessons while she has them. You are assisting her teacher in earning a living, and your dd's ed and experience may well last her a lifetime.

[MamaWindmill]

So what about the people who can't store food, either because of the expense or lack of space, or can't afford expensive survival gear/equipment? What will happen to those people? What if those people are your friends and neighbors?

[marimara]

For me, I think that it might take a few days at least for public water to get cut off (I have city water) so as I was watching events unfold, I would fill my 2 (may get one more) 5-gal tanks w/water to use in addition to my other stockpiled water supplies. Plus I would fill my gigantic garden tub w/water. If you are on a well you should be good (if you have a way to get it out without electricity-manual pumps etc). My meager water supplies won't last long though, so I don't know, I would have to leave and go somewhere where there is a well w/manual pump I guess. Maybe a friends house, relatives? I couldn't rely on rain catchment either since the South is constantly in a drought. I would hope that the 'grid' would come back up by then and if not well then we are all in for it.


BTW I read somewhere how to build a solar oven for nearly free. Don't remember where though...you might want to google it if your concerned how you would need to boil water.

[captain crunchy]

Originally Posted by whalemilk

Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.

We are living paycheck to paycheck with *very few to no* extras, as a big part of our income was just slashed (in part to the economy). I don't buy like 15 bazillion cans of whatever or toys for years or whatever. I don't know where that is coming from. Everyone is at different places in their lives -- I am blessed I *can* afford to purchase an extra can here or there --of things I will use anyway -- or buy an extra when coffee is BOGO free (so I am getting four for the price of two). I buy things I *already use* (very important!!) when prices are way low, or I have mad coupons, or whatever -- I realize some people don't even have the means to do that.

If the SHTF the way some people are talking -- toys are sort of the least of my concern -- I can always make paper airplanes out of dollar bills

Children of all people have always found ways to entertain themselves in creative and awesome ways without me stockpiling Haba, so I agree on that -- but I didn't see a lot of that except for homeschooling books gotten on the cheap which I think can be smart if you didn't have the gas to get to a library or money to buy the books in the near future etc.

[MamaWindmill]

Why would your water get shut off? I'm asking, not being cute.

[captain crunchy]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

So what about the people who can't store food, either because of the expense or lack of space, or can't afford expensive survival gear/equipment? What will happen to those people? What if those people are your friends and neighbors?

I am big on community.... *big* and I believe in helping out and sharing the wealth -- I have said many posts and threads ago that I believe the biggest thing to "stockpile" is community. However, if someone is breaking into my house to steal - yeah, I won't be sharing with them. Of course if a neighbor came to me saying they or their child was hungry and did we have *anything* to spare, ... if we did, I would. If we didn't, well -- yes, I would feed my child over someone else's (if it came down to it). If that makes me a bad person, so be it.

[marimara]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

So what about the people who can't store food, either because of the expense or lack of space, or can't afford expensive survival gear/equipment? What will happen to those people? What if those people are your friends and neighbors?

Ok last post for a while, dd is waking up but....

I would help friends/neighbors as much as I could without putting my family in jeopardy. Ideally they would be preparing too I try to drop hints to fam/friends to keep some cash on hand, water supplies (one gal per person per day), food, can opener, fire extinguisher, you know-BASIC emergency supplies.

It doesn't cost that much to have a few meager food supplies on hand. A bag of dried beans is about a buck, 20lbs of rice is $15-20. Fill up water tanks for free. Just a little ingenuity and preparedness will go a long way in the event they are needed.

Talk to ya'll later....play nice now!

[dubfam]

Originally Posted by whalemilk

http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...UCT&itemID=948

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...0&CS_010=69486

Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.

Anyhow, where do you get the water to purify if the supply has been cut off? I mean it doesn't rain THAT much, even in Portland. And it would take a couple days to walk down to the river and back.

Are you feeling attacked for not stocking up?

I didn't see where anyone suggested that YOU should have a water purifier etc...just that some of us DO have them and that is how we plan to cook rice or have drinking water.

I also don't understand why so many people on this thread think that people wouldn't share with their neighbors.
I feel like that is an unfair assumption. I don't recall reading ANY posts that say people wouldn't share or that people plan to shoot hungry neighbors.
I think that when people mention the thought of having to use firearms they are talking about self defense from people who are being violent. Not shooting the kids next door because they ask for some rice.

One of my biggest concerns is that most people are not prepared. Whether it be through choice or circumstances. That is the main reason that I would like to have as much food on hand as possible (withing reason of course!!)

If there was a banking holiday, even for a week, there are many people who don't have enough food to get by. I would be ready and willing to share what we have. I am all about community and when I am stocking up on large amounts of things I am PLANNING on sharing with those around me. We have 10 cases of vitamin water in our basement (that we got FREE) and I certainly wouldn't plan on my family consuming all of that in a crisis. I would go and give them away to neighbors, or an agency that was distributing things to needy people. I would HATE to only have enough for MY family to get through for a couple days and feel that I couldn't afford to help others in my community. Turning away a hungry neighbor or friend would be almost as painful as not having food for my children.

When I am stocking up I thinking about the low income apartment complex across the street whose tenants wont be able to afford to stock up. But if someone showed up at my house, violently demanding supplies/food/whatever, I would be ready to defend my family. Just like if someone were to try and rob us now.

Does all of that make sense?

[captain crunchy]

Originally Posted by dubfam

Are you feeling attacked for not stocking up?

I didn't see where anyone suggested that YOU should have a water purifier etc...just that some of us DO have them and that is how we plan to cook rice or have drinking water.

I also don't understand why so many people on this thread think that people wouldn't share with their neighbors.
I feel like that is an unfair assumption. I don't recall reading ANY posts that say people wouldn't share or that people plan to shoot hungry neighbors.
I think that when people mention the thought of having to use firearms they are talking about self defense from people who are being violent. Not shooting the kids next door because they ask for some rice.

One of my biggest concerns is that most people are not prepared. Whether it be through choice or circumstances. That is the main reason that I would like to have as much food on hand as possible (withing reason of course!!)

If there was a banking holiday, even for a week, there are many people who don't have enough food to get by. I would be ready and willing to share what we have. I am all about community and when I am stocking up on large amounts of things I am PLANNING on sharing with those around me. We have 10 cases of vitamin water in our basement (that we got FREE) and I certainly wouldn't plan on my family consuming all of that in a crisis. I would go and give them away to neighbors, or an agency that was distributing things to needy people. I would HATE to only have enough for MY family to get through for a couple days and feel that I couldn't afford to help others in my community. Turning away a hungry neighbor or friend would be almost as painful as not having food for my children.

When I am stocking up I thinking about the low income apartment complex across the street whose tenants wont be able to afford to stock up. But if someone showed up at my house, violently demanding supplies/food/whatever, I would be ready to defend my family. Just like if someone were to try and rob us now.

Does all of that make sense?

perfect sense to me.

[StacyL]

Originally Posted by MamaWindmill

Why would your water get shut off? I'm asking, not being cute.

It doesn't even take much for this to happen.

A few months ago here (D.C. area) we had a 48" watermain break. We (our entire county) had no water for THREE DAYS! Then we had to boil it for 5 more days after it came back. The govt. SHUT DOWN every restaurant (1,200 of them!) in Montgomery County for about 5 days.

Boy, was I lucky to have had several 5-gal. containers of water stored in my basement.

Ever wonder what happens to your sewage issue when there's no water for three days...hmmm?

[karina5]

This is very intriguing to me. I knew a guy who started stockpiling things in the late 80's, because of Black Thursday (y'all remember that??). I lost touch w/ him unfortunately, but I'd be curious to find out what has happened to his things.

Take medicine. By now everything he stockpiled has expired. So what does one do? Dump it all out, and then re-stockpile?

Take canned goods. Same thing? When all the food is close to expireation date, do you give it to a homeless shelter and then go get more, and re-stockpile all over again?

And when do you think the sh*t will hit the fan? I'm not being snarky, I just am a little puzzled b/c people have been saying "the end is near" for many years now, know what I mean?

I mean, take this guy I knew in the late 80's. He was CONVINCED that it was going to happen around that time, and he was wrong. And then the Y2K doomsdayers thought everything was going to collapse then.

At what point do you say, "okay, guess I don't need to hold onto these old beans anymore."

??????????????

[MamaWindmill]

Originally Posted by StacyL

It doesn't even take much for this to happen.

A few months ago here (D.C. area) we had a 48" watermain break. We (our entire county) had no water for THREE DAYS! Then we had to boil it for 5 more days after it came back. The govt. SHUT DOWN every restaurant (1,200 of them!) in Montgomery County for about 5 days.

Boy, was I lucky to have had several 5-gal. containers of water stored in my basement.

Ever wonder what happens to your sewage issue when there's no water for three days...hmmm?

I don't have to wonder. We had a record-shattering flood in my area this summer.

I'm asking what the current economic crisis has to do with your water service - and I'm still really asking, not being cute. How would the stock market crash cause your water to be shut off?

[thixle]

Originally Posted by whalemilk

http://www.lehmans.com/jump.jsp?item...UCT&itemID=948

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/...0&CS_010=69486

Do you know what "fixed income" means? Well that's what we have. It's also such that when I have purchased food to last 30 days, there is absolutely no more money for food until next month, and when I have purchased clothing to last the winter, there is not money to purchase clothing again until the spring. It means that I can't afford to buy $200 toys on the fantastical speculation that we're all about to enter a bad sci fi novel. You'd be surprised how many people live this way. I guess we're walking ghosts in your fantasy of the collapse.

Anyhow, where do you get the water to purify if the supply has been cut off? I mean it doesn't rain THAT much, even in Portland. And it would take a couple days to walk down to the river and back.

Those are some nifty gadgets you linked to... but I would never buy them, they are overpriced gadgets.

You can do a solar cooker that will get hot enough to cook food (and boil water if the sun is strong enough that day) from a couple cardboard boxes and a roll of tinfoil (boy, that hat may come in handy after all ). We have a camp stove and some extra gas for it to use short term, after that, things other than wood can be burned... IF it is necessary. I've got a lot of college textbooks that will do me no good in a doomsday scenario, lol.
You can make cheap, simple passive solar heaters to keep from freezing inside if your heat gets shut off. Check out instructables.com

You get the water by stocking up now. It doesn't take much room to have a few office sized jugs of water to last a few weeks... well, I don't think it will get so bad that individual cities loose all water for a long time... but if it DID, those jugs will tide you over until you can collect rainwater, or if need be, actually walk to that river.

We also have an fixed income and just purchased a house, TODAY Yep, we are doing our part to keep the economy going! We have to get out of this apartment and stop throwing our money to a crappy landlord-- so we are stocking up on house. Dh's job is pretty darned secure, unless TS really HTF, and we would be able to borrow from the MIL to keep our house (heck, we could probably move in with her, but I'll be eating squirrels way before then )

However, there are ways to make it through a Depression-- I know our grandparents did, otherwise we wouldn't be here. If you look around you, there are so many things you can do, for little to no money (and some duct-tape, don't forget to add a few rolls of THAT to your shopping list)...

I'm really slow at typing cause DD is needing me every couple of seconds, so, I'm sure I've missed a bunch of new posts, but this is why I am SO GLAD I grew up poor, going without, and had my grandparents stories of the Depression, as well as being homeless myself at one point... It's amazing what resources are available if you just THINK about it.

That's what worries me... not someone asking for help, or asking for food (cause I'll gladly share what little bit of anything I've got, or barter for it, etc)... It's the people that say, oh well, this is hopeless and demand things with violence... And yep, we are getting Dh's .22 from his dad to put away for hunting season, if we need it (dh hasn't hunted in a LONG time)... but you bet your bippy I'm not afraid to use it in case of zombie attack

[dancebaraka]

I personally do not think we will ever have loss of H20 or electricity or whatever beyond random outages, etc. due to a more chaotic infrastructure or drought.

[StacyL]

Originally Posted by tumblingstar

I would help friends/neighbors as much as I could without putting my family in jeopardy. Ideally they would be preparing too I try to drop hints to fam/friends to keep some cash on hand, water supplies (one gal per person per day), food, can opener, fire extinguisher, you know-BASIC emergency supplies.

Don't forget a can opener in your Go Bag.

I'll talk more about go bags later tonight.