Ultrasound/Doppler safety (clarification in post 65) - Page 2

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

I would suggest (if you know the sex or not) you tell people to wait until after the birth to bring gifts, and just get a few essentials before (or use what you already have). Kids grow through things different anyway. It is just a better investment to have an idea of what size your baby is and how fast they grow before splurging.

Oh, believe me, if there was anything on earth I could tell her that would keep her from shopping, I would do it. Sadly, she spends ridiculous amounts of money buying ridiculous amounts of absolutely hideous junk that we absolutely do not want and try as we might we cannot stop her. I was joking about it earlier, but it is actually really sad. She is on disability and has huge amounts of debt that she has no hope of ever repaying, and she spends her disability check on things that we literally throw away. We have tried & tried to get her to stop, but she can't do it. The last thing she needs is an excuse to spend more. Hmmm...maybe we can get away with not even telling her until baby is born. If we do tell her when baby is due, she is likely to plan a trip to visit us around that time, and the last thing I need when I am in labor is my crazy MIL hovering.

[seafox]

Does anyone have a link to the doppler/u/s comparison info?

My ob/gyn doesn't do u/s at her practice, but they do the Doppler at 12 weeks on. Ill ask when and if she switches to a fetoscope I guess.

I am now thinking of skipping my 8.5wk u/s. I will get the 12wk one anyway (the nuchal translucency scan) simply for reassurance and since I am not sure what I'd do with certain birth defects (if incompatible w/ life) and would want to know.

Its only 3 more weeks, I'm thinking, and I guess I'm feeling that I don't want bad news delivered vaginally.

so 12wk, 20wks, and then fetoscope seems like a good plan.

I live in a big city, so everyone I know pretty much gets u/s, some early, etc. So I hadn't really thought about risks or issues with it at all before!

[KatWrangler]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

Do you think that your at increased risk for spina bifida? From what I have read and heard if you are taking folic acid the chances of your child having a problem is very, very small.

Not in your DDC, uh not even pregnant. I had to comment on this.

Here is some info on causes of Spina Bifida:



http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/s...ina_bifida.htm

What causes spina bifida?

The exact cause of spina bifida remains a mystery. No one knows what disrupts complete closure of the neural tube, causing a malformation to develop. Scientists suspect genetic, nutritional, and environmental factors play a role. Research studies indicate that insufficient intake of folic acid—a common B vitamin—in the mother’s diet is a key factor in causing spina bifida and other neural tube defects. Prenatal vitamins that are prescribed for the pregnant mother typically contain folic acid as well as other vitamins. (See “Can the disorder be prevented?” below for more information on folic acid.)

What is spina bifida?

Spina bifida, which literally means “cleft spine,” is characterized by the incomplete development of the brain, spinal cord, and/or meninges (the protective covering around the brain and spinal cord). It is the most common neural tube defect in the United States—affecting 1,500 to 2,000 of the more than 4 million babies born in the country each year.

My daughter has a form of Spina Bifida called lipomyelomeningocele (as well as tethered spinal cord, neurogenic bladder and neurogenic bowel). So I had to comment on this.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by no5no5

Oh, believe me, if there was anything on earth I could tell her that would keep her from shopping, I would do it. Sadly, she spends ridiculous amounts of money buying ridiculous amounts of absolutely hideous junk that we absolutely do not want and try as we might we cannot stop her. I was joking about it earlier, but it is actually really sad. She is on disability and has huge amounts of debt that she has no hope of ever repaying, and she spends her disability check on things that we literally throw away. We have tried & tried to get her to stop, but she can't do it. The last thing she needs is an excuse to spend more. Hmmm...maybe we can get away with not even telling her until baby is born. If we do tell her when baby is due, she is likely to plan a trip to visit us around that time, and the last thing I need when I am in labor is my crazy MIL hovering.

Is there anything you can do to steer her towards the goods you actually want? Like, "MIL I know how much you love buying things for the little ones, and since we already have dd we will not need the same type of goods as last time. Here is a list of some of the things we would like." Then if she deviates from the list too much (just enough not to leave you stuck with tons of garbage) ask her to return the stuff. Be very appreciative, but remind her that you have from dd or that you just will not need those goods. When you ask her to return stuff give her alternatives to buy instead. Like, we do not need this, but we could really use a snowsuit or something instead.

In my experience (dh has an uncle that has a shopping problem) when you have them returning enough stuff they start to ask what you want before buying garbage. You really have to have them return the stuff themselves though. Do not make it your problem (which I guess means you will have to send it back to her).

[mama2j&t]

We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.

When I was pg with my dd next I was starting to question routine u/s but I still felt that I needed to know whether she would have a cleft or not. It was more for my peace of mind because honestly it was very traumatic with my ds#2 during his birth and infancy.

Now with this baby I'm not sure....I am much more questioning of all things in mainstream medicine. My instinct is to just skip all u/s but I don't know... it's a tough call for me.

I know that my experience is rare, but I thought I'd add to this discussion

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by mama2j&t

We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.

When I was pg with my dd next I was starting to question routine u/s but I still felt that I needed to know whether she would have a cleft or not. It was more for my peace of mind because honestly it was very traumatic with my ds#2 during his birth and infancy.

Now with this baby I'm not sure....I am much more questioning of all things in mainstream medicine. My instinct is to just skip all u/s but I don't know... it's a tough call for me.

I know that my experience is rare, but I thought I'd add to this discussion

I know a woman with an infant born with a cleft palate, and another woman with a son born with a cleft lip. Neither was detected during ultrasound. Everyone's experience and need to know potential challenges are different, but there is no guarantee that the ultrasounds will find a problem if one exists. Usually, not always, more invasive testing (stronger 3d ultrasounds, amnio, etc) will need to be done to find definitive answers.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

Is there anything you can do to steer her towards the goods you actually want? Like, "MIL I know how much you love buying things for the little ones, and since we already have dd we will not need the same type of goods as last time. Here is a list of some of the things we would like." Then if she deviates from the list too much (just enough not to leave you stuck with tons of garbage) ask her to return the stuff. Be very appreciative, but remind her that you have from dd or that you just will not need those goods. When you ask her to return stuff give her alternatives to buy instead. Like, we do not need this, but we could really use a snowsuit or something instead.

In my experience (dh has an uncle that has a shopping problem) when you have them returning enough stuff they start to ask what you want before buying garbage. You really have to have them return the stuff themselves though. Do not make it your problem (which I guess means you will have to send it back to her).

That sounds like good advice, and maybe I _should_ send things back to her, but...

First of all, most of the stuff she sends is not worth the postage that it would take to send it back. And I don't have money to waste. Second of all, the stuff we like is expensive--we don't buy a lot, but we do buy quality (when we buy at all). So I would hate to ask her for that kind of stuff. Third, we already have everything we need for the next, oh, 2 or 3 years. I shop ahead when I can find a good sale, and MIL shops ahead because she is aware that we already have more clothes in DD's size than we can fit in DD's dresser. And more toys than a daycare center. Fourth, it would make her cry. And I _hate_ making people cry.

Also, to the extent that she does try to buy the kinds of things we actually want (e.g., cloth diapers), she almost always gets it wrong. So if I were to give her a list, it would have to be _very_ explicit. And then I'd have to come up with a dollar amount I wouldn't mind her spending, which I can't do because I don't want her spending _anything_, and no matter what dollar amount I came up with she would invariably go over it.

DH has had 3-4 talks with MIL in which he told her in no uncertain terms that we do not want her shopping for us, that we do not want the things she buys, that it makes us feel bad when she shops for us, and that if she buys us any more things we will just throw them away. She cried every time (as you can imagine) and was shopping for us again within the month. And DH is able to be mean to her because she is his mom, but I just can't be. So she sneaks things to me and says, "I know I'm not supposed to be shopping for you, but this was so (insert adjective) and it was only (insert price)...please don't tell DH I bought it." UGH. I try to say things like, "Yes, that is (adjective) and (price) sounds like a good deal, but we really do not need it, so please do not buy anything else." But she does not respond to anything that is not totally explicit.

Okay, I have hijacked my own thread. Maybe we should start a crazy in-laws thread. I will keep you posted on what happens when she finds out I'm pregnant.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by KatWrangler

My daughter has a form of Spina Bifida called lipomyelomeningocele (as well as tethered spinal cord, neurogenic bladder and neurogenic bowel). So I had to comment on this.

Thanks for sharing the article. Did you find out before the birth? Did it make a difference in your birth plan?

Originally Posted by mama2j&t

We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect.

But other than the pumping thing, it didn't change your birth plan? I have pumped before (I worked when DD was a baby), so I wouldn't be super worried about that for myself. But it is a good point. I feel like when DD was born she could have looked like a monkey and I would have loved her just as much. But maybe it would have been really traumatic if she'd been born with a problem that I hadn't known about beforehand.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Grr, I just lost my response nono.

Basically, I think it would hurt your MIL's feelings much less if you worked with her in her desire to buy your little ones stuff. If she is spending the same amount of money on junk that you throw away not make her a list of quality stuff that you want. I am sure you alraedy have a great idea of exactly what stuff that you want, so it should not be too much trouble to share. It is ultimately her decision to spend her money where she wants. Why not get stuff that you can use, and be appreciative of, instead of stuff that you hate and throw away?

By the way, my other response dealt with all the guilt and other suggestions. You got the short version now.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

Grr, I just lost my response nono.

Basically, I think it would hurt your MIL's feelings much less if you worked with her in her desire to buy your little ones stuff. If she is spending the same amount of money on junk that you throw away not make her a list of quality stuff that you want. I am sure you alraedy have a great idea of exactly what stuff that you want, so it should not be too much trouble to share. It is ultimately her decision to spend her money where she wants. Why not get stuff that you can use, and be appreciative of, instead of stuff that you hate and throw away?

By the way, my other response dealt with all the guilt and other suggestions. You got the short version now.

I hate it when I lose a long response. The thing is--we really don't need ANYTHING. We need one new carseat. Everything else--we saved everything we used for DD. And it was mostly unisex/boy because we hate girly pink stuff. Most of DDs diapers are still usable, and this time I will make more diapers if we need them. I already have the fabric. So literally, all I can think that I need to buy is a carseat. Maybe a lightweight sling for the summer--but I can make that myself too. I guess if I have a homebirth, I will need some supplies. Maybe I can set her on that.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I hate it when I lose a long response. The thing is--we really don't need ANYTHING. We need one new carseat. Everything else--we saved everything we used for DD. And it was mostly unisex/boy because we hate girly pink stuff. Most of DDs diapers are still usable, and this time I will make more diapers if we need them. I already have the fabric. So literally, all I can think that I need to buy is a carseat. Maybe a lightweight sling for the summer--but I can make that myself too. I guess if I have a homebirth, I will need some supplies. Maybe I can set her on that.

Yeah, you better give her something to get, or you are going to get a bunch of stuff you do not want.

[bri276]

We found out that my 4yo would have cleft lip and palate at the 20 week ultrasound. We have no family history or risk factors. I am glad I found out because I was able to prepare for him - especially being prepared to pump from the start since he was unable to nurse. If we had only found out at birth the pumping/feeding would have been more difficult, as well as the visual shock of his extreme birth defect

my dd was born with complete palatal agenesis and it was not caught on any of the six ultrasounds I had, including a level II. I'm not sure why pumping would have been more difficult for you if you'd not known before? I started pumping the night she was born and kept going for 21 months and was lucky to have a good supply. I readily admit EP'ing is one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. I'm still glad I didn't know about the cleft, or any of DD's special needs, before she was born- but everyone's different, and you couldn't see her cleft, either.

Anyways. I just had to chime in even though I also am not in this ddc

[mama2j&t]

gosh, i sometimes feel like mdc is so judgemental. i never said that i think anyone should get an u/s, i just gave my experience. it is what it is.

i went through a year and a half of extreme stress when my son was born. i am not going to post here about it anymore because when people say judgemental things about the decisions i made then and now (based on that experience) it makes me so upset.

(i'm probably overracting, pregnancy hormones i guess...)

[chely7425]

Originally Posted by mama2j&t

gosh, i sometimes feel like mdc is so judgemental. i never said that i think anyone should get an u/s, i just gave my experience. it is what it is.

i went through a year and a half of extreme stress when my son was born. i am not going to post here about it anymore because when people say judgemental things about the decisions i made then and now (based on that experience) it makes me so upset.

(i'm probably overracting, pregnancy hormones i guess...)

I sometimes feel this way too... I am with you though, I would want to be able to prepare for potential challenges!! s

[myfairbabies]

Leah- I don't think anyone was being judgmental, they were just giving different experiences, which is what you did (that's what it seemed like to me anyway). I found all the information, provided by you and others, valuable.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by chely7425

I sometimes feel this way too...

Me too, but most of the time I do not think it is intended that way. I have noticed this on every board I have been on, and I think part of the blame goes to the written word. I think people tend to be succinct in their writing, so they might seem like they are taking an extreme position on something that they only have an maybe opinion on. I know this is true for me. Then there is also no tone in the written word. Things that could have been sarcastic or said with an inflection of question are lost on the written word. Lastly, I do think that the anonymity of these boards allows people to be harshly judgmental when they typically would not be. I think that goes away the more people get to be known on the boards because it is the same as being known in real life.

That is my opinion on the topic anyway.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by mama2j&t

gosh, i sometimes feel like mdc is so judgemental. i never said that i think anyone should get an u/s, i just gave my experience. it is what it is.

i went through a year and a half of extreme stress when my son was born. i am not going to post here about it anymore because when people say judgemental things about the decisions i made then and now (based on that experience) it makes me so upset.

(i'm probably overracting, pregnancy hormones i guess...)

I really hope I didn't come off as judgmental. I value your input and I thought you made a very good point. I agree with you that it would be better to know ahead of time--for me, personally, as well as for you--but I am trying to weigh how much better it would be to know with how scared I am of causing a problem by getting an ultrasound.

I realize that am lucky to have a DD without any serious issues (as yet) and I am still stressed/worried about her all the time. I can't imagine how hard it must be to have the additional stress/worry of a medical problem.

Anyway, thank you for posting, and I am sorry you felt that people were being judgmental.

[chely7425]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

Me too, but most of the time I do not think it is intended that way. I have noticed this on every board I have been on, and I think part of the blame goes to the written word. I think people tend to be succinct in their writing, so they might seem like they are taking an extreme position on something that they only have an maybe opinion on. I know this is true for me. Then there is also no tone in the written word. Things that could have been sarcastic or said with an inflection of question are lost on the written word. Lastly, I do think that the anonymity of these boards allows people to be harshly judgmental when they typically would not be. I think that goes away the more people get to be known on the boards because it is the same as being known in real life.

That is my opinion on the topic anyway.

I totally agree with you about tone!! I also think it's hard because we don't all have the same context in which we are interpreting what people write, you know?

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by chely7425

I totally agree with you about tone!! I also think it's hard because we don't all have the same context in which we are interpreting what people write, you know?

Yes, definitely. I know there have been a few instances where I felt like someone was just attacking me, and when I asked them about it I find out that I completely misunderstood their intention. They might not have said it well , but they were not attacking me.

[summerbaby]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

Yes, definitely. I know there have been a few instances where I felt like someone was just attacking me, and when I asked them about it I find out that I completely misunderstood their intention. They might not have said it well , but they were not attacking me.

I have also had this happen so many times in emails. Reading someone's written word can make you take what they are saying in completely the wrong way.

Going back to your interesting discussion on u/s safety, as I've mentioned before I will be going in to see the doctor this week as I need to check for tubal pregnancy. Having read this thread and others (I haven't read the articles yet), I'd like to minimise the number of u/s's done, especially since it's so early. However, clearly the consequences of an undetected tubal pregnancy are pretty bad.

BlissfullyLoving, you mentioned before about measuring HCG and progesterone levels as that can give some clues - thank you for that advice, I will be talking about that with the doctor. But I just wondered what you would all do if you didn't like u/s but had been told to check in early pregnancy for a tubal as you are high risk (surgery on tube when young teenager). I want to be as well-informed as poss before I see the doc