Ultrasound/Doppler safety (clarification in post 65) - Page 4

[no5no5]

I could only hear DD with DH's stethoscope very intermittently. She had to be in exactly the right position, or it was impossible. She was not the most cooperative fetus.

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I could only hear DD with DH's stethoscope very intermittently. She had to be in exactly the right position, or it was impossible. She was not the most cooperative fetus.

It is easiest to listen if you are listening to their back, so you have to know how they are positioned too.

[RachaelsMommy]

Originally Posted by summerbaby

I just wondered what you would all do if you didn't like u/s but had been told to check in early pregnancy for a tubal as you are high risk (surgery on tube when young teenager). I want to be as well-informed as poss before I see the doc

I would definitely think this is a case where the benefit would outweigh the risk.

Originally Posted by Voltige

I've been lurking this DDC since Friday when my RE told me we had conceived! ::: It's been a long journey to get here, but I'll post that info elsewhere.

I'm concerned now because my RE said "now we will watch you very carefully" as in monitoring early pregnancy. EVERY visit I've had with him has included bloodwork and a vaginal u/s. I am assuming this will continue and I'm not comfortable with that. I had absolutely no problems with my first pregnancy, either conceiving or in early pregnancy, so I kind of just want to stop going to the RE now I had trouble GETTING pregnant. Now I am Do I really need constant monitoring?

Anyway, I'm thrilled to be joining all of you!!

I've had a few friends who got pg with IVF and other than some early betas and an early u/s to determine how many babies there were, their RE's just montiored them like a normal pregnancy, then at 12 weeks released them to OBs/midwives. So maybe you won't be constantly monitored.

Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley

They are literally microphones - and trust me, at £20 a one (not rented, bought from the store)...no where near a doppler! lol...This is why you can really only use it from 20 weeks onwards AND...you gotta have thin skin. I could hear DS heartbeat at 20 weeks (in just the right spot) but I got some extra padding this time around so imagine ill have to use it a few weeks later than that to hear anything! hehe

I had the Bebe Sounds one, and it sucked. But it did say you needed absolute silence, and I don't have any place in my apartment where it's completely silent. Also, I wasn't very good at determining her position, maybe that was my problem.

[musiclady]

Originally Posted by mama2j&t

gosh, i sometimes feel like mdc is so judgemental. i never said that i think anyone should get an u/s, i just gave my experience. it is what it is.

i went through a year and a half of extreme stress when my son was born. i am not going to post here about it anymore because when people say judgemental things about the decisions i made then and now (based on that experience) it makes me so upset.

(i'm probably overracting, pregnancy hormones i guess...)

Yep, know what you mean. It's hard to read into what is written, and probably most of us are trying to catch up late at night when we're already hormonal and exhausted....

Everyone has to decide what is best for them, and sometimes I really enjoy reading differing opinions because it helps me to see things I wouldnt' have thought of.

For me, I do want the u/s because I need the reassurance. But I wouldnt' ask my dr to give me one every week- I'm more of an "in moderation" opinion. Once I have the reassurance I need, then I think I'd be okay. Everyone has different circumstances, and that's the interesting part of the journey!

Hope you have a good evening!

[no5no5]

Okay, folks, I have discussed this extensively with my (doctor) DH, and I am now in possession of some new information. To wit, when we say "Doppler" we mean the little machine that makes whoosh-whoosh sounds, but when doctors/medical professionals say "Doppler" they don't necessarily mean that. Apparently "Doppler" is a setting on an ultrasound machine (much like 3D is a setting on the same machine). So when I had been reading articles in medical journals that said that "Doppler" is the most dangerous type of ultrasound, it pertained to a setting on the big ultrasound machine, not to the whoosh-whoosh machine. According to DH, the whoosh-whoosh machine actually emits much, much, much less energy than one of the big ultrasound machines. He did a search and could not find any studies of any sort implicating the whoosh-whoosh machine in miscarriage or birth defects. It is his opinion that the whoosh-whoosh machine is totally safe.

So I am thinking on it, but I believe I will likely agree to the whoosh-whoosh and not to the ultrasound. I hope this clears things up for those of you who might have been confused at the meaning of "Doppler" (as I was).

[chely7425]

Good to know the whoosh-whoosh machine is safe!! I really like that reassurance of the whoosh-whoosh...

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by chely7425

Good to know the whoosh-whoosh machine is safe!! I really like that reassurance of the whoosh-whoosh...

I know. Me too. Of course, it's still ultrasound, so you wouldn't want to have it strapped to your belly for months, but a few seconds at each visit seems okay to me.

[chely7425]

Originally Posted by no5no5

I know. Me too. Of course, it's still ultrasound, so you wouldn't want to have it strapped to your belly for months, but a few seconds at each visit seems okay to me.

Definitely!!! My family also has a history of heart arythmias/defects and I like hearing the good strong heart beat!!!

[seafox]

this is confusing, since the articles posted make it sound like its just the listening device, not a setting:

Doppler Devices: Many women do not realize that doppler fetoscopes are
ultrasound devices. (apparently, neither do many care providers. Time
after time, women are assured by doctors and even some nurse midwives
that a doppler is not an ultrasound device.) . . . .

Not well publicized for obvious reasons, doppler devices expose the fetus
to more powerful ultrasound than real time (imaging) ultrasound exams.
One minute of doppler exposure is equal to 35 minutes of real time
ultrasound. This is an important point for women to consider when
deciding between an ultrasound exam and listening with a doppler to
determine viability in early pregnancy. . . . .

that doesn't sound like a setting, but the ones you can rent (she mentions you could have one in your home, etc)

but maybe she is reading from the same journals that mistakenly mention that doppler is the most powerful of the u/s settings? Are all the other links that say doppler is more powerful referring to those same sources, perhaps?

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by seafox

this is confusing, since the articles posted make it sound like its just the listening device, not a setting:



that doesn't sound like a setting, but the ones you can rent (she mentions you could have one in your home, etc)

but maybe she is reading from the same journals that mistakenly mention that doppler is the most powerful of the u/s settings? Are all the other links that say doppler is more powerful referring to those same sources, perhaps?

Yeah, you're right. Honestly, when I read a statement like that with no source, I don't put a lot of trust in it unless I can find corroboration. And I thought I had found it when I first read those articles. But now, of course, I realize I misinterpreted them. And DH was kind enough to say that it was easy to do.

I went back through the posted links to see if I could find anything else with a source that I can verify. There are some reliable sources, but as far as I can tell they refer to the setting type of doppler, not to the whoosh-whoosh machine. E.g., "The researchers concluded that prenatal ultrasound imaging and Doppler flow exams should be restricted to clinically necessary situations." According to DH, "Doppler flow exams" means something much more advanced than just hearing the heartbeat. It means checking the direction and speed of blood flow, I guess to & from the placenta. And that requires a full-blown ultrasound machine, set to its most powerful setting.

Anyway, I am inclined to believe DH. But obviously that is a source that is reliable to me and not so reliable to you all. At least it gives you something to think about.

[ktmama]

nono, my mw claims there is a 90% chance of hearing a hb at 12 weeks with a fetoscope (I KNOW it's spelled wrong, but I'm tired!)

This whole thread has me thinking that even though u/s isn't recommended for normal pregnancies, it's something docs routinely offer because they CAN. It's my impression that some ob/gyns feel pretty useless unless they are offering some sort of test/screening/tool. I think this holds true in birth as well.

FWIW, I've not had an u/s with either of my normal, healthy pgs. I wouldn't want to know if anything was wrong (let alone know what to send MIL shopping for ) anyway. You cracked me up with that MIL rant. I'm 43 and pg now and I'm not having u/s this time either. I did have a transvaginal u/s with my 1st m/c and it was the most horrible experience of my life.

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by no5no5

It is his opinion that the whoosh-whoosh machine is totally safe..

Originally Posted by chely7425

Good to know the whoosh-whoosh machine is safe!! I really like that reassurance of the whoosh-whoosh...

it may be reassuring but this is not what i have read. im too tired to look it up right now but the hand held "dopplers" are much more intense than the office u/s's. there are several articles here on the main website for those interested. sorry...i just dont have the energy (at 3am) to look for them but just wanted to make sure those who are interested know to dig a bit deeper.

[no5no5]

Originally Posted by ktmama

This whole thread has me thinking that even though u/s isn't recommended for normal pregnancies, it's something docs routinely offer because they CAN. It's my impression that some ob/gyns feel pretty useless unless they are offering some sort of test/screening/tool. I think this holds true in birth as well.

DH says (very cynically) that they want to do it because they want to charge for it.

Originally Posted by PassionateWriter

it may be reassuring but this is not what i have read. im too tired to look it up right now but the hand held "dopplers" are much more intense than the office u/s's. there are several articles here on the main website for those interested. sorry...i just dont have the energy (at 3am) to look for them but just wanted to make sure those who are interested know to dig a bit deeper.

You mean mothering.com? I will have a look. I am very interested in anything that would contradict what I said...I am not trying to promote an agenda; I just want to know the truth of the matter.

[no5no5]

Okay, here's what I found on the mothering.com website:

"The doppler is the small, hand-held device most often used at each prenatal visit after the tenth week (LMP) to listen to the baby's heartbeat. Fortunately, the doppler's exposure time is the shortest, making it potentially the least damaging ultrasound device."

"More studies are obviously needed in this area, particularly in Doppler ultrasound, where exposure levels are much higher, and in vaginal ultrasound, where there is less tissue shielding the baby from the transducer." (Citing J. P. Newnham et al., "Doppler Flow Velocity Wave Form Analysis in High Risk Pregnancies: A Randomised Controlled Trial," Br J Obstet Gynaecol 98, no. 10 (1991): 956-963.) The source is clearly the setting type doppler, not the whoosh-whoosh machine. This is one of the articles I found in my own research, which DH actually read.

Other than that, all I can find are anecdotal notes involving use of dopplers, and none of them appear to have any negative things to say. Maybe I'm missing something?

[BlissfullyLoving]

Originally Posted by ktmama

This whole thread has me thinking that even though u/s isn't recommended for normal pregnancies, it's something docs routinely offer because they CAN. It's my impression that some ob/gyns feel pretty useless unless they are offering some sort of test/screening/tool. I think this holds true in birth as well.

While I am not a fan of obs, in general, I do not think that obs medically manage births only because they can. Obs are specialized surgeons trained to find pathology. If you went to an oncologist for a cold can you imagine what you would go through before you were diagnosed with a cold, and I think the same is true for obs. Obs are trained for high risk pregnancies and surgery. You are considered high risk until otherwise proven safe, and as far as they are concerned that can change at anytime. I think it is our responsibility to use midwives or family physicians for our normal pregnancies and refer to obs only when medically necessary.

Thanks for the new information nono.

[chely7425]

Originally Posted by BlissfullyLoving

While I am not a fan of obs, in general, I do not think that obs medically manage births only because they can. Obs are specialized surgeons trained to find pathology. If you went to an oncologist for a cold can you imagine what you would go through before you were diagnosed with a cold, and I think the same is true for obs. Obs are trained for high risk pregnancies and surgery. You are considered high risk until otherwise proven safe, and as far as they are concerned that can change at anytime. I think it is our responsibility to use midwives or family physicians for our normal pregnancies and refer to obs only when medically necessary.

Thanks for the new information nono.

I think this is completely true!!

[tubulidentata2]

Thanks for digging deeper into this matter for us, nono!