Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › question about treating GBS w/echinacea
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

question about treating GBS w/echinacea  

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
A friend wants to know:

Is it ok for a 38wk GBS positive human to take echinacea (1/2 drop/lb of body weight x 3 day) and colloidal silver together, in order to be GBS negative before birth?


She is having trouble posting on mdc, that's why I am posting for her. She knows the risks and treatment options for GBS+ birth in hopsital, she is just trying to figure out how to fight the strep now that she knows she is positive.

Thanks so much!
post #2 of 15
I wouldn't. Has she considered a hydrogen peroxide vaginal rinse?
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure, I know she used hibiclens for three days prior to the test. I'll make sure she sees your response!
post #4 of 15
So she's already had the test? No use doing anything else if she's already done hibiclens. I think hibiclens itself is overkill.
post #5 of 15
I've read about taking a combo of probiotics (multiple strains), garlic, vitamin c, and echanacia, taking breaks from the echancia every few days as it doesn't keep working if you take it nonstop, continuing those supplements until and just after the birth. That's my plan, I won't test for GBS I'll assume I have it again this time.
post #6 of 15
http://www.joyousbirth.info/articles...lapproach.html

I tested positive at 36 weeks and DS was born 39 weeks 4 days. I followed some of what was suggested on this site including the colloidal silver and echinacea. I didn't use hibiclens during the birth or before. I believe If I had been tested again at birth I would have been negative but I can't prove it. Only thing is that DS was perfectly fine.
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
I wouldn't. Has she considered a hydrogen peroxide vaginal rinse?
Just out of curiosity, can I ask why you wouldn't recommend that?

PS. Hi Sheila! (it's Kirsten, from study group)
post #8 of 15
Echinacea has not been well studied in pregnancy and there is evidence that it can cause contractions. Why take the risk when you can do a quick rinse with hydrogen peroxide?
post #9 of 15
where to start- sure you could take echinacea and the silver- to what end? what are you trying to accomplish?
so our skin our intestines our vaginas are covered in flora- staph and strep are very common parts of that flora- GBS other wise known as group B strep or another name for it strep agalactiae is now thought to be normal flora in 20-30% of all women of child bearing age. basically 1/3 of us. it competes well with lots of other bacteria, plays well with yeast- I think of it as sort of the tumbleweed of our bodies- it likes a vaginal pH of 4.5 or even more alkaline- something common to women who have high colony counts of GBS is that they have lower colony counts of hydrogen peroxide producing lactobacillus- and less acid forming bacteria in general in their vaginas and probably in their intestines as well in any case figuring out how to cultivate your vaginal flora so that it is slightly acidic and has plenty of hydrogen peroxide lactobacillus will compete with and keep down GBS and BV growth -- this is why Nashvillemidwife is mentioning a hydrogen peroxide 1 time only rinse- because it is the very chemical good/healthy/preferable flora produces and is acidifying (not to mention it is very very inexpensive) then do something to maintain that acidification - try using LIVE culture yogurt as a lube for sex and/ or apply it to a pad and wear it and eat it daily-(how about in a smoothie) if you are allergic then get ahold of some other live culture foods- like coconut milk keifer and use it the same way-- echinecea will probably not hurt and has the effect of increasing immune response but we do not know it is effective at all- the most effective immune response is to have healthy vaginal flora and that will protect you-- as for using things like garlic and silver these are antibiotics and swing with a pretty big swath kills off all flora including the healthy stuff and fresh topical use of garlic has the added benefit of inflamming/burning tissues - If you are going to use an antibiotic then why not use the ones that have been studied and proven to be effective? there are also some concerns about the safety of using silver, how much goes to the baby? what effects does it have on the baby? I will have to re-find the links but you could do a web search some naturopaths up in Seattle put out a web/research paper on silver and just like all sorts of old medical treatments like mercury and lead yes it may very well kill off all kinds of critters in the right concentration but it is also not a "healthy" metal to have high amounts of in our bodies (how much silver passes to baby?)-- I think that if I were to use silver it would be topically- and probably one of the products that are used medically like silvidine(used for burns for years- probably is effective against GBS) this would reduce the risks to baby as far as systemic exposure to silver--
there are also studies on the use of a very weak dilution of hibiclens to be used in labor and the effectiveness was about the same as treating risk factors- it was used every 6 hrs as a rinse and then the baby is bathed with the dilute solution as well- what these types of treatments won't work on is an infection that has already been established in the uterus/placenta/amniotic fluid--
post #10 of 15
thanks for all the responses. and thanks to sheila for posting this for me. i can finally post again!!! (i guess i should thank firefox for that - IE apparently hates me).

what sort of concentration should i use the hydrogen peroxide in?

right now my regimen has been 2ml echinacea x2 day, garlic capsules, vit C and vaginal garlic every 2 days. have washed every 3-4 days in hibiclens. have not added in colloidal silver because i'm just not sure about it. but i'm tempted because i just caught a cold off my dd and have a terrific sore throat

i've read about vaginal flushing with hibiclens a few days before the test. so i might do that too.

i am due in 10 days. i see my doc again on friday and hope he'll permit me a retest just before my due date.

i was checking out the kefir in the store today and didn't buy it. perhaps i'll grab some of that too
post #11 of 15
3% hydrogen peroxide, as sold on the shelf. Use a bulb syringe. Although I'm really not understanding the point. You've been doing hibiclens every 3-4 days??? That stuff has not been studied at all for that kind of use, and we do know that topical use does absorb the chemicals through your skin into the blood stream! Plus if you're already doing that, there's absolutely no need to do anything else. It's an antiseptic, like washing your vagina out with alcohol. With the regimen you've been following it's unlikely there's anything growing in there at all, good or bad.
post #12 of 15
Chlorhexidine vaginal flushings versus systemic ampicillin in the prevention of vertical transmission of neonatal group B streptococcus, at term.
Abstract: -1- Facchinetti F, Piccinini F, Mordini B,Volpe A J Matern Fetal Med 2002 Feb;11(2):84-8 Chlorhexidine vaginal flushings versus systemic ampicillin in the prevention of vertical transmission of neonatal group B streptococcus, at term.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the efficacy of intrapartum vaginal flushings with chlorhexidine compared with ampicillin in preventing group B streptococcus transmission to neonates.
METHODS: This was a randomized controlled study, including singleton pregnancies delivering vaginally. Rupture of membranes, when present, must not have occurred more than 6 h previously. Women with any gestational complication, with a newborn previously affected by group B streptococcus sepsis or whose cervical dilatation was greater than 5 cm were excluded. A total of 244 group B streptococcus-colonized mothers at term (screened at 36-38 weeks) were randomized to receive either 140 ml chlorhexidine 0.2% by vaginal flushings every 6 h or ampicillin 2 g intravenously every 6 h until delivery. Neonatal swabs were taken at birth, at three different sites (nose, ear andgastric juice).
RESULTS: A total of 108 women were treated with ampicillin and 109 with chlorhexidine. Their ages and gestational weeks at delivery were similar in the two groups. Nulliparous women were equally distributed between the two groups (ampicillin, 87%; chlorhexidine, 89%). Clinical data such as birth weight (ampicillin, 3,365 +/- 390 g;chlorhexidine, 3,440 +/- 452 g), Apgar scores at 1 min (ampicillin, 8.4 +/- 0.9;chlorhexidine, 8.2 +/- 1.4) and at 5 min (ampicillin, 9.7 +/- 0.6; chlorhexidine,9.6 +/- 1.1) were similar for the two groups, as was the rate of neonatal group B streptococcus colonization (chlorhexidine, 15.6%; ampicillin, 12%). Escherichia coli, on the other hand, was significantly more prevalent in the ampicillin (7.4%) than in the chlorhexidine group (1.8%, p < 0.05).Six neonates were transferred to the neonatal intensive care unit, including two cases of early-onset sepsis (one in each group).
CONCLUSIONS: In this carefully screened target population, intrapartum vaginal flushings with chlorhexidine in colonized mothers display the same efficacy as ampicillin in preventing vertical transmission of group B streptococcus. Moreover, the rate of neonatal E. colicolonization was reduced by chlorhexidine


Prevention of excess neonatal morbidity associated with group B streptococci by vaginal chlorhexidine disinfection during labor.
Lancet 1992 Jul 11;340(8811):65-9. Comment in: Lancet. 1992 Sep 26;340(8822):791; discussion 791-2. Lancet. 1992 Sep 26;340(8822):792..

Conclusion: Chlorhexidine reduced the admission rate for infants born of carrier mothers to 2.8% (RR 1.95, 95% Cl 0.94-4.03), and for infants born to all mothers to 2.0% (RR 1.48, 95% Cl 1.01-2.16; p n 0.04). Maternal S. agalactiae colonization is associated with excess early neonatal morbidity, apparently related to aspiration of the organism, that can be reduced with chlorhexidine disinfection of the vagina during labor.

Vaginal Flushing vs. IV Antibiotics
Facchinetti F, Piccinini F, Mordini B, Volpe A. “Chlorhexidine vaginal flushings versus systemic ampicillin in the prevention of vertical transmission of neonatal group B streptococcus, at term.” J Matern Fetal Med 2002 Feb;11(2):84-8.
Department of Gynecology, Obstetrics and Pediatric Sciences, University of Modena and Reggio Emilia, Modena, Italy.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the efficacy of intrapartum vaginal flushings with chlorhexidine compared with ampicillin in preventing group B streptococcus transmission to neonates.
METHODS: This was a randomized controlled study, including singleton pregnancies delivering vaginally. Rupture of membranes, when present, must not have occurred more than 6 h previously.. Women with any gestational complication, with a newborn previously affected by group B streptococcus sepsis or whose cervical dilatation was greater than 5 cm were excluded. A total of 244 group B streptococcus-colonized mothers at term (screened at 36-38 weeks) were randomized to receive either 140 ml chlorhexidine 0.2% by vaginal flushings every 6 h or ampicillin 2 g intravenously every 6 h until delivery. Neonatal swabs were taken at birth, at three different sites (nose, ear and gastric juice).
RESULTS: A total of 108 women were treated with ampicillin and 109 with chlorhexidine. Their ages and gestational weeks at delivery were similar in the two groups. Nulliparous women were equally distributed between the two groups (ampicillin, 87%; chlorhexidine, 89%). Clinical data such as birth weight (ampicillin, 3,365 +/- 390 g; chlorhexidine, 3,440 +/- 452 g), Apgar scores at 1 min (ampicillin, 8.4 +/- 0.9; chlorhexidine, 8.2 +/- 1.4) and at 5 min (ampicillin, 9.7 +/- 0.6; chlorhexidine, 9.6 +/- 1.1) were similar for the two groups, as was the rate of neonatal group B streptococcus colonization (chlorhexidine, 15.6%; ampicillin, 12%). Escherichia coli, on the other hand, was significantly more prevalent in the ampicillin (7.4%) than in the chlorhexidine group (1.8%, p < 0.05). Six neonates were transferred to the neonatal intensive care unit, including two cases of early-onset sepsis (one in each group).
CONCLUSIONS: In this carefully screened target population, intrapartum vaginal flushings with chlorhexidine in colonized mothers display the same efficacy as ampicillin in preventing vertical transmission of group B streptococcus. Moreover, the rate of neonatal E. coli colonization was reduced by chlorhexidine.

Vaginal Disinfection with Chlorhexidine During Childbirth
Stray-Pedersen B, Bergan T, Hafstad A, Normann E, Grogaard J, Vangdal M. “Vaginal disinfection with chlorhexidine during childbirth.” Int J Antimicrob Agents 1999 Aug;12(3):245-51.
Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Aker Hospital, University of Oslo, Norway.

The purpose of this study was to determine whether chlorhexidine vaginal douching, applied by a squeeze bottle intra partum, reduced mother-to-child transmission of vaginal microorganisms including Streptococcus agalactiae (streptococcus serogroup B = GBS) and hence infectious morbidity in both mother and child. A prospective controlled study was conducted on pairs of mothers and their offspring. During the first 4 months (reference phase), the vaginal flora of women in labour was recorded and the newborns monitored. During the next 5 months (intervention phase), a trial of randomized, blinded placebo controlled douching with either 0.2% chlorhexidine or sterile saline was performed on 1130 women in vaginal labour. During childbirth, bacteria were isolated from 78% of the women. Vertical transmission of microbes occurred in 43% of the reference deliveries. In the double blind study, vaginal douching with chlorhexidine significantly reduced the vertical transmission rate from 35% (saline) to 18% (chlorhexidine), (P < 0.000 1, 95% confidence interval 0.12-0.22). The lower rate of bacteria isolated from the latter group was accompanied by a significantly reduced early infectious morbidity in the neonates (P < 0.05, 95% confidence interval 0.00-0.06). This finding was particularly pronounced in Str. agalactiae infections (P < 0.0 1). In the early postpartum period, fever in the mothers was significantly lower in the patients offered vaginal disinfection, a reduction from 7.2% in those douched using saline compared with 3.3% in those disinfected using chlorhexidine (P < 0.05, 95% confidence interval 0.01-0.06). A parallel lower occurrence of urinary tract infections was also observed, 6.2% in the saline group as compared with 3.4% in the chlorhexidine group (P < 0.01, 95% confidence p interval 0.00-0.05).
This prospective controlled trial demonstrated that vaginal douching with 0.2% chlorhexidine during labour can significantly reduce both maternal and early neonatal infectious morbidity. The squeeze bottle procedure was simple, quick, and well tolerated. The beneficial effect may be ascribed both to mechanical cleansing by liquid flow and to the disinfective action of chlorhexidine.

Vaginal Chlorhexidine during labor
Burman LG, Christensen P, Christensen K, Fryklund B, Helgesson AM, Svenningsen NW, Tullus K. “Prevention of excess neonatal morbidity associated with group B streptococci by vaginal chlorhexidine disinfection during labour. The Swedish Chlorhexidine Study Group.” Lancet 1992 Jul 11;340(8811):65-9. Comment in: Lancet. 1992 Sep 26;340(8822):791; discussion 791-2. Lancet. 1992 Sep 26;340(8822):792.
National Bacteriological Laboratory, Stockholm, Sweden.

Streptococcus agalactiae transmitted to infants from the vagina during birth is an important cause of invasive neonatal infection. We have done a prospective, randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled, multi-centre study of chlorhexidine prophylaxis to prevent neonatal disease due to vaginal transmission of S agalactiae. On arrival in the delivery room, swabs were taken for culture from the vaginas of 4483 women who were expecting a full-term single birth. Vaginal flushing was then done with either 60 ml chlorhexidine diacetate (2 g/l) (2238 women) or saline placebo (2245) and this procedure was repeated every 6 h until delivery. The rate of admission of babies to special-care neonatal units within 48 h of delivery was the primary end point. For babies born to placebo-treated women, maternal carriage of S agalactiae was associated with a significant increase in the rate of admission compared with non-colonised mothers (5.4 vs 2.4%; RR 2.31, 95% CI 1.39-3.86; p = 0.002). Chlorhexidine reduced the admission rate for infants born of carrier mothers to 2.8% (RR 1.95, 95% CI 0.94-4.03), and for infants born to all mothers to 2.0% (RR 1.48, 95% CI 1.01-2.16; p = 0.04). Maternal S agalactiae colonisation is associated with excess early neonatal morbidity, apparently related to aspiration of the organism, that can be reduced with chlorhexidine disinfection of the vagina during labour.

Chlorhexidine Gel
Kollee LA, Speyer I, van Kuijck MA, Koopman R, Dony JM, Bakker JH, Wintermans RG. “Prevention of group B streptococci transmission during delivery by vaginal application of chlorhexidine gel.” Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 1989 Apr;31(1):47-51.
Department of Paediatrics, University Hospital, Nijmegen, The Netherlands.

In a prospective study in 227 parturients, carriership of group B streptococci was established to be 25%. In carriers, transmission of streptococci to the newborn occurred in 50%. 10 ml of a chlorhexidine gel containing hydroxypropylmethylcellulose was introduced into the vagina during labor in 17 parturients, who were known to be carriers of group B streptococci from the first trimester of pregnancy. In none of the newborns from these mothers colonization by group B streptococci did occur. Vaginal application of chlorhexidine may prevent transmission of group B streptococci, and serve as an alternative to intrapartum prophylaxis using antibiotics. A large multicenter randomized controlled study should be performed to confirm this hypothesis.

Chlorhexidine before rupture of membranes
Christensen KK, Christensen P, Dykes AK, Kahlmeter G. “Chlorhexidine for prevention of neonatal colonization with group B streptococci. III. Effect of vaginal washing with chlorhexidine before rupture of the membranes.” Eur J Obstet Gynecol Reprod Biol 1985 Apr;19(4):231-6.

A single vaginal washing with 2 g/l of chlorhexidine was performed before rupture of the membranes in 19 parturients who were urogenital carriers of group B streptococci (GBS). Two (11%) of the infants became colonized immediately after birth, in contrast to 16 of 41 (39%) infants to controls (P = 0.02). A significant reduction of GBS colonization of the ear (P = 0.02) and umbilicus (P = 0.01) was noted. Taken together, 2 of 57 (4%) cultures obtained at birth were positive in the chlorhexidine group, in contrast to 30 of 123 (24%) among the controls (P less than 0.01). These findings raise hope for the design of a simple washing procedure which might prevent serious infections in the early neonatal period with GBS but also with other chlorhexidine-sensitive organisms.
post #13 of 15
I think what Nashvillemidwife was saying about chlorhexidine is that it hasn't been studied for use before labor- the studies have all been in labor studies-
if you are using a weak dilution with the 4% hibiclens it is 1 part hibiclens and 20 parts water-- but when it is used is during labor.

keifer is good what you want is some "live" lactobacillus and other acid forming bacteria-

other things to do be sure you are wiping front to back- don't wear thong underwear- avoid having anal sex before vaginal sex- and careful of positions , using yogurt as a lube would help here a bit as far as helping to re-seed the vagina and perineal area additionally exposing/ re-seeding your partner with live flora.
something that I have thought about and put together- we use blueberries and cranberries to help support the urinary tract and prevent UTIs they actually help with the mucous membrane tone and to help repel bacteria from digging in-- there are other studies that show eating berries in general do the something similar for our intestines, intestinally they are even anti-inflammatory-- vaginal tissues are mucous membranes and I don't doubt that vagina gets some benefit from us eating berries
take care
post #14 of 15
Yes, I was referring to the fact that the only studies we have on hibiclens are for labor use. I have recommended that it be used prenatally, but never every 3-4 days. Once a week AT MOST. We do know that it crosses into the blood stream. I have seen photos of squamous degradation from repeated use of hibiclens on mucous membranes. *shiver* Not to mention what it could be doing inside your body once it gets into the blood.
post #15 of 15
i meant to add some more to my post this morning, but realized the time and had to scurry off to work

i used hibiclens 3 days prior to my GBS test. i just squirted a little in my hand while in the shower and and patted it around my vulva and perineum. i washed it off immediately. the morning of my test, after my shower (warning TMI coming) and as i was about to leave before my appt i had to have a rush bowel movement and i think rush the wipe job, magnified by my ungainly size, may have resulted in contaminating myself

since i found out the positive result, last friday, i have only done the hibiclens 'pat' once. based on what your saying maybe i'll skip that until labor (providing my waters don't break too soon) and just do a hydrogen peroxide wash in a few days or so. i also need to pick up some kefir.

thanks for all your input, i appreciate it
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Birth and Beyond
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › question about treating GBS w/echinacea