LDS Mamas and Papas~ Fall/Winter '08 (all are welcome!)

[holyhelianthus]

Hey y'all! I know some of us had wanted to keep the LDS Mamas and Papas all inclusive thread going here but man have we been slacking off!

I'm Maggie, mama to 3 girlies and wife to my DH Robbie. We were sealed a year ago next month- can you believe it???!! I am the YW secretary and Rob was just called as the EQ secretary.

Besides that my oldest baby is going to be 5 on Friday

[CorasMama]

ok, I'll start off with a really controversial one. Can we keep our 501c3 status, considering what the Church is doing in California, re Prop 8?

And, how can I keep my mouth shut long enough for this to go away to keep me from being excommunicated?

both valid questions, and worthy of discussion. I thank God every Sunday that I don't live in CA.

[lacysmommy]

I'm Carolyn, mama of two and married for 8 years to Dave. I am the YW secretary and ward chorister, DH is an EQ teacher and in charge of church cleaning every third month.

Yes, we can keep our tax exempt status. From Wikipedia:

Organizations with this classification are prohibited from conducting political campaign activities to influence elections to public office. Public charities (but not private foundations) are permitted to conduct a limited amount of lobbying to influence legislation. Although the law states that "no substantial part" of a public charity's activities may be devoted to lobbying, charities with very large budgets may lawfully expend a million dollars (under the "expenditure" test) or more (under the "substantial part" test) per year on lobbying

The church is not backing a political candidate, but is supporting legislation that would affect a doctrinal issue.

I'm glad I don't live in California either. There is a lot of ugliness from backers on both sides of the debate.

[CorasMama]

How, exactly, would the legislation affect a doctrinal issue?

[holyhelianthus]

Kate~ Carolyn is right.
Also I know that there is concern that the redefining of marriage would effect the church in that it might become an issue trumping a church's "rights" and church's will be forced to preform same-sex marriages. Now this may or may not happen- I can honestly see it happening any way. Really, only time will tell. I understand YES on 8ers concerns and I wish NO on 8ers would address those concerns. I think both sides are sort of arguing without explaining their positions. If we could just come together on this!!!

Originally Posted by lacysmommy

I'm glad I don't live in California either. There is a lot of ugliness from backers on both sides of the debate.

This is for sure! It is getting pretty darn ugly. Both YES and NO 8 signs are being torn down and defamed. I just wish we could all agree to disagree and quit calling the other side names (whichever side that is). I hate hearing the YES on 8ers being called bigots and the NO on 8ers being called immoral.

Seriously Wednesday cannot come soon enough!!

IMNSHO marriage is a religious and personal issue that the gov't should get it's nose out of. When is THAT going to be on the ballot?

[holyhelianthus]

And while I have y'all can I just say that I LOOOOOVED the Conference talk on "simple living". I keep meaning to bring this up on nLDS

[CorasMama]

Originally Posted by magstphil

Kate~ Carolyn is right.
Also I know that there is concern that the redefining of marriage would effect the church in that it might become an issue trumping a church's "rights" and church's will be forced to preform same-sex marriages.

It very simply cannot and will not happen. The people telling people that it can are fearmongerers and know that it cannot happen. We have freedom of religion in this country. That's why, despite anti-descrimination laws, we and the catholics and several other denominations do not have to ordain women. If they haven't forced us to do that, do you really think they're going to get around freedom of religion to force us to perform gay marriages? Heck, clergy are allowed to not marry people because of whatever criteria they want, including most often, not being members of their church!

What this is about, is letting other people do with their lives what they will. This really isn't about us.

Perhaps you have heard of the two plans presented in Heaven. In one, we were all forced to live according to God's will, and in the other, we all got to choose whether to live according to His will and His plans for us? And which was the righteous plan?

[holyhelianthus]

Hey I hear ya Kate and you know I agree. BUT of late the line between church and state has been blurred and moved back. What people who are all for this (prayer in schools, etc) don't seem to realize is that if you open that door the state can move right in and make itself comfy in your religion. I can totally see this happening. That's not to say I am 100% in agreement with Prop 8. What I am saying here is it's crap. All of it. Both sides seem to be out to get each other rather than working together for an end that could benefit us all. For some odd reason when it comes to marriage people really whig out. But, then again, I guess we should have seen this coming as marriage always has been rather dramatic.

So to sum it all up- I have little to no faith in the gov't when it comes to protecting rights least of which separation of church and state. It hasn't done the best of jobs. So I can see where people are afraid and I can see where people are saying there is nothing to be afraid of. There is just no easy answer to the Prop 8 issue.

[Bekka]

prayer in schools

We don't have any prayer in schools, but my daughter (8) just asked me the other night if she "had to pray during the moment of silence." Good teaching opportunity about "when to pray", but I'm not sure when it came up for discussion that the moment of silence was specifically for praying.

BTW, I'm Becky, I have dd 10, dd 8, ds almost 5, and dd 2. She's crazy. I'm the Primary pres. and our program is next Sunday. I'm expecting #5 next spring. I'm really annoyed with my kids right now. What else? I want to be a midwife when I grow up. I did NOT attend BYU (went to USC, so I follow news in CA closely).

I honestly have no clue how I would choose for Prop 8. My family in CA all have really strong opinions, and I think I would be really split, b/c I've always been a live and let live person, and I feel like others should be able to make their own choices. The question is, what is the risk to us being able to make OUR own choices, and IF that is a risk, then I would feel like that would drive my vote for sure. Like protecting certain other rights that are controversial.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by Bekka

We don't have any prayer in schools, but my daughter (8) just asked me the other night if she "had to pray during the moment of silence." Good teaching opportunity about "when to pray", but I'm not sure when it came up for discussion that the moment of silence was specifically for praying.

I never thought of the moment of silence being for prayer (as I never was really silent during those times ) but that makes sense! To me there is never a "wrong" time for personal prayer, ykwim?

BTW, I'm Becky, I have dd 10, dd 8, ds almost 5, and dd 2. She's crazy. I'm the Primary pres. and our program is next Sunday. I'm expecting #5 next spring. I'm really annoyed with my kids right now.

CONGRATS on #5!!!! : (did I know about that????)
re: the bolded mine are driving me up the wall, too. *sigh*

[ORLY?]

Oh hooray! : I've been away for at least a month!

Intro:
Angela (member of 5 yrs) wife to Michael (BIC) for three years, mother to Caleb (7 mo). Just moved into our FIRST house. Using sheets for curtains until I get the time and the dough. :
Just moved into a branch that was our ward until it split a month ago so no calling yet. I'm feeling Primary-ily though.

I voted today!

[holyhelianthus]

What does "BIC" mean?

[ORLY?]

Originally Posted by magstphil

What does "BIC" mean?

BIC = "Born in Covenant"
You see it on PAF

[holyhelianthus]

I thought that's what it meant! But what does PAF mean?

[ORLY?]

Originally Posted by magstphil

I thought that's what it meant! But what does PAF mean?

Personal Ancestral File, a family history program

[transformed]

can you LDS women tell me something? I hope I am not stereotyping (please call me out if I am) but how does your faith govern your ability to make a home? Every LDS women/family I have ever met have been so extraordinary - well behaved, peaceful, clean homes, strong relationships, etc.

I am actually thinking of investigating the church to see if I would fit in because everything in LDS friends I have had is what I want.

I think its the Peace mostly.

What if you are LDS and you are just undisciplined and messy? Then what?

[Bekka]

Originally Posted by transformed

What if you are LDS and you are just undisciplined and messy? Then what?

Well, I am very undisciplined and messy!!!!! I think that my faith helps me find more reasons for creating a home that is a place of peace and love than just "fear of CPS" or "just because." I HATE cleaning. But I have 4 (going on 5) children. If I (and DH who is wonderful) don't model at least some cleaning behaviors, organizing, housekeeping, loading DW, laundry (for 6 people), etc., our children will not learn good habits.

I regularly schedule meetings at my house so that I have to clean it. Dinner guests, etc. I have NO internal motivation to clean and I'm very tolerant of clutter. Then one day it makes me crazy and cranky.

I have to help my children learn routines to help them cope with the things they want to do. And so we work together on it. Sometimes we're "on top of things", but we're usually getting dressed out of laundry baskets and 2 days behind on the pots, but not the plates and glasses.

I DO think that my reasons for parenting are faith driven, and for me, kind caring children are more important than clean (struggling with my 4 yo boy). We talk about morality, respect for all others, kindness, choices, Golden Rule, etc. ALL THE TIME.

And please see my above post--my kids were really annoying me the other day.

[lacysmommy]

I pointed out earlier in the thread that the Church has not violated any conditions or laws to be considered tax-exempt and their tax exempt status will not be revoked. There is a huge misconseption that Churches are not allowed to be involved politically at all in order to remain tax exempt, but the laws state that they can be involved in lobbying efforts. I am actually reading quite a few interesting conversations about prop 8 right now on an LDS board. I am not as eloquent or as well-versed as other people who are pro-8 on this issue, but the general consensus seems to be that it is an eroding of morality issue that is the biggest concern. Also here is the Church's official statement regarding prop 8 passing. I'm not going to comment further on this issue as I really, really, really don't want a political argument on this thread.

Anyway.

To answer transformed... the Church is a church of order. Everything is done the way it is done for a reason. Because many of us are raised in the Church and have held callings (asked to volunteer in the church in a specific task) from the time we were 12 or 13, it prepares us for adulthood and helps us learn organizational skills and many other skills that are not taught in schools or in every family. Even if we're converts, we are put to work right away which keeps us busy. I find it easier to be more organized and in control when I'm busier with things relating to my callings.

That said, I am naturally messy and unorganized. I think I am Bekka's twin because I could have written her post exactly. I only keep my house clean to set an example for my kids and because company's coming. And really I could do a better job of it if I tried harder (unfortunately I'm naturally lazy, and it's something I'm working on every day... if I feel like it).

[ORLY?]

Originally Posted by transformed

can you LDS women tell me something? I hope I am not stereotyping (please call me out if I am) but how does your faith govern your ability to make a home? Every LDS women/family I have ever met have been so extraordinary - well behaved, peaceful, clean homes, strong relationships, etc.

I am actually thinking of investigating the church to see if I would fit in because everything in LDS friends I have had is what I want.

I think its the Peace mostly.

Exactally.
I'm a convert, my family wasn't LDS, and I can honestly say I came from the cleanest home in AZ, but my family/home didn't have that feeling of peace you mentioned.
My home is "clean" not to my OCD mother's standard ( I love her, I swear! ), but in order.
I think that is what's special about LDS homes, there is ORDER, not always cleaniness, but there is an order. Everyone has a job to do, we help each other, there is a bigger picture involved- our families are forever. The teachings of Christ and that simple truth ("that the family is centeral to the Creator's plan for the eternal destiny of His children." The Family ) is what centers us.

[CorasMama]

from the Church statement:

Even more, the Church does not object to rights for same-sex couples regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.

Except that the FL amendment actually bans civil unions, too, to it does inhibit rights regarding hospitalization, medical care, etc.

And whether gay people, (who would not otherwise be entering into straight marriages if we told them they couldn't marry each other), marry each other, does not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family. Seriously. Nor does them marrying each other at the courthouse or the UU Church violate our Church's constitutional rights. It really, really doesn't.

If Cora didn't need Church so much right now, I'd be leaving the Church over this human rights issue. And it pains me horribly to say this (seriously, I cry when I think about it).