Be honest now... - Page 3

[taunya]

adoptive mom

Hi there,
My comment posted on your opening page, oops!? I don't know how I did that one. Go back to your message and I hope you can see what I sent you.
Good Luck~!
When the baby is six months It WIll get better!

[vue]

From an adoptee perspective I'm finding this topic really interesting. I would imagine it would be hard to not feel like your babysitting. I think it's probably even harder for the baby who was used to his/her mothers voice for so long and then to not hear it anymore - it's intuitive to want to search for her. I always felt like my parents were babysitters.

[Polliwog]

Originally Posted by vue

I always felt like my parents were babysitters.

Wow, that's really sad. I respect your feelings but that makes me want to cry. Did you not have a good relationship with them?

[tiffani]

welcome to the new folks here! glad you found the forum, hope you'll find as much wisdom and help here as I have.

vue, I'm so sorry you felt that way growing up -- do you still feel that way? how old were you when you were adopted, if you don't mind my asking? it is so helpful for adoptive parents to hear the views of adoptees, so your input here is valuable!!!

Hi taunya! I recognize you from another thread! I just wanted to gently point out that while it is comforting to adoptive parents to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and "our adoption was meant to be", it can be hurtful for birthparents and adoptees to hear that again and again -- how can their tragedy be "meant to be", know what I mean? While adoption is an amazingly beautiful and miraculous thing, it is also tragic and horrible and painful and brings a lifetime of sadness to many birthparents and some adoptees. Here on this board, having all members of the adoption triad here (meaning, adoptive parents, adoptees, and birthparents or firstparents) sharing their experiences, we need to be considerate of everyone's feelings. I know that your message was only intended to make Red Oak Mama feel more confident about her own adoption, but this is the 'net, and there are lots of people reading every word you type!! Also, Red Oak Mama's little girl is already a toddler, but you're right, time will help, and by the time she's been with them for 6 months, I'd wager she'll be a lot more secure and relaxed in her family. It may take a bit longer, as she was adopted as a toddler, therefore has more memories and experienced more trauma being removed from first her birthmother (at birth, I believe?) and then from her foster mama, she may take a little longer to truly settle in. I think, though, ROM, that these are all good signs, that she has a firm handle on what it means to be attached, and that she is doing the work necessary on her own beautiful timeline.

I know it must be hard for you guys (and I know that after being in the adoption community for two years I *still* assume that my own adoption, of course, would be instantaneous attachment for all of us!! ) but if it helps at all, I sit here, from very far away, admiring your little girl and all that she is coping with, and it amazes me how she is carefully loving and needing you -- it's a great testament to you, my friend, and also to her!!!

[vue]

Originally Posted by BethNC

Wow, that's really sad. I respect your feelings but that makes me want to cry. Did you not have a good relationship with them?

Beth - thank you for respecting my feelings - I appreciate it.

I don't often talk about my feelings with adoptive parents - except for once a year I do volunteer work with little adoptees and I speak to an audience of about 100 adoptive parents and prospective adoptive parents. But the reason I usually don't talk about it is because I am, 99% of the time, asked two things - and they are:

1) did you not have a good relationship with your parents

2) did you have a negative adoption experience

When I'm asked that, it says to me that the adoptive parents are searching for some way to label me (or my adoptive parents) or place me (or them) in a box so we can be shelved because they know (or need to hope) their situation is not the same and therefore their child will never possibly feel like I do.

But to answer your question - my relationship with them ebbed and flowed over the course of our relationship. There were good times and there were bad times.

There are numerous reasons why I felt/feel the way I do. The discussions in this thread about temperaments and personalities have a lot to do with it. Those feelings go both ways - I did not fit with them and they did not fit with me.

And while yes, that can happen in bio families, the difference was, we were not a bio family and I missed out on all the little things that can help a bio child whose temperament is different always know he/she is family. Things like looking like someone in the family, having traits of grandmother, walking like father, laughing like a cousin, musical talents just like Aunt Cindy - a traceable genealogy. Bio kids don't have to wonder how or why they ended up in a particular family or why they were given away or what would have happened if they were kept or ended up in another family.

My temperament and personality could not have been any more opposite then my adoptive family and at times it made day to day life very difficult for me - the child - who would never ever dare talk about this but stuffed it down inside because I had already been abandoned by one mother and I wasn't going to take the chance of being abandoned again.

Alivicio's post about the trauma of separation could not be any more true. Trauma does happen at separation.

You said my post made you want to cry. But what I saw when reading this thread is that nobody thought to cry for the little children who were separated from their mother and in a strange place and confused and crying and not knowing how to deal with their emotions.

Now I know that is NOT what this thread was about and I am sure if I read other threads I would find tons of empathic posts but this just happened to be the only one I read and it just struck me that it's okay for the child to have a new parent that feels like a babysitter yet if that child grows up and never shakes that feeling then that is cause to be sad. I guess it is because the grownup is finally able to bond so the child should too. But then what happens if the child doesn't because between abandonment and attachment problems and personality differences it is just impossible?

When a child is already traumatized from separation - and maybe even multiple placements - and then is finally adopted and has a parent that doesn't feel attachment to the child - what messages does that send the child? How does the child ever overcome that? It becomes ingrained in them. Abandonment issues and attachment issues are not something a child can overcome on their own. So pushing away is a natural reaction for someone who has been abandoned.

It's natural that an adoptive parent would not feel an immediate bond but it's not unnatural, that after abandonment and lack of attachment that the adoptee would never form one. The problem is, it's to taboo to talk about.

[vue]

Originally Posted by tiffani

vue, I'm so sorry you felt that way growing up -- do you still feel that way? how old were you when you were adopted, if you don't mind my asking?

Yes, I still feel that way. I was relinquished at less then a week old, don't know where I was for two months and then place with parents and formally adopted a year later.

I just wanted to gently point out that while it is comforting to adoptive parents to believe that "everything happens for a reason" and "our adoption was meant to be", it can be hurtful for birthparents and adoptees to hear that again and again -- how can their tragedy be "meant to be", know what I mean?

Thank you for saying this. In my eyes, I was meant to be with my original mother and it was by very unfortunate reasons that I came to be with the family I did. I think the "meant to be" idea is a way to gloss over the initial tragedy that causes a child to be placed.

[tiffani]

Originally Posted by vue

Thank you for saying this. In my eyes, I was meant to be with my original mother and it was by very unfortunate reasons that I came to be with the family I did. I think the "meant to be" idea is a way to gloss over the initial tragedy that causes a child to be placed.

I agree with you 100% -- children are meant to be with their mothers, period. When that doesn't work out, for whatever reason, and the mother either chooses or is forced to relinquish custody, hopefully the child will land in an adoptive family who will love and cherish them forever and ever, and they will feel like the natural part of their family that they are. Sometimes this seems to happen right away for everyone, sometimes it takes a while, sometimes it never happens, and that is what every adoptive parent fears -- that for whatever reason, THEIRS will be the adoption that doesn't ever feel totally right. I think many parents want to gloss over, or just forget that initial tragedy, but mostly I think they really want to believe, and NEED to believe, and in a way I think it is healthy for the adoptive parent to believe, that their children came to them for a reason -- it seems less scary to jump into forever parenting with a child who was divinely guided (or guided by the universe) toward you -- it's like a shield against the potential "issues" that will almost inevitably come up. I suppose it can come as comfort to small children too, but as those kids grow and need to know their history, it is terribly disrespectful towards the child's first family to say that it was "meant to be" that they are now in your family. At the same time, I think it's beautiful when a family reaches that state, where it *seems* as if it must have all been meant to be, as opposed to "how did we all get stuck with each other?" As you said, though, it's almost taboo (though less so now, do you think? on this board I think there's a brutal honesty that is so helpful for all of us) to ever say that your adoption didn't feel right, but getting that message out there is important too -- both kids and parents need to know that those feelings might come up, and they don't mean failure...

Especially now, after having lost the opportunity to adopt two children from Zambia, I realize what a horribly tragic, yet beautifully miraculous series of hard-won and also chance events it is that brings specific children into a specific home. We all need to accept and address the very harsh realities that come with adoption, while at the same time, celebrating the fact that children without families can sometimes find families that are perhaps different than being in their family of origin, but *hopefully* where they can find love and happiness and partners in their journey.

ROM, keep on keepin' on, you're an amazing mama, and those of us who "know" you here, know that you are so conscientious about all the issues facing all members of the adoption triad -- many of us have learned a lot from you. Another thing you have in your favor is that you're not afraid to talk about the taboo, and uncover the uglier side of your emotions, because that is where the healing comes. I know E will, in time, blend seamlessly into your family, and you'll look back at this time and wonder how you ever could have felt this way -- but in the meantime, keep talking about it, keep loving and doting on your little girl, and she'll do the same!

[Polliwog]

I just have a minute, but I think if you do spend some time reading some of the threads in this forum, you'll find that we do lots of crying and worrying about the trauma our children have faced/are facing. This particular thread really focuses on our feelings and how they affect/are effected by the children in our homes.

I think that on this board, much more than most of the others I post/lurk on, we think about all members of the triad quite a bit. For myself, I know I do. I have an open adoption with my son's maternal birth family. That's not so common in the foster adoption world.

[vue]

Originally Posted by BethNC

I just have a minute, but I think if you do spend some time reading some of the threads in this forum, you'll find that we do lots of crying and worrying about the trauma our children have faced/are facing. This particular thread really focuses on our feelings and how they affect/are effected by the children in our homes.

I think that on this board, much more than most of the others I post/lurk on, we think about all members of the triad quite a bit. For myself, I know I do. I have an open adoption with my son's maternal birth family. That's not so common in the foster adoption world.

And that is why, in my long post above I wrote "Now I know that is NOT what this thread was about and I am sure if I read other threads I would find tons of empathic posts..."

However, it would be too triggering for me to spend time reading many other threads. I should not have read this one - but for some reason I clicked on it and it intrigued me.

[heatherdeg]

I haven't read a single response... rushing.

We felt like babysitters with our ffd and somewhere around 6 or 7mo, she just suddenly felt like a bio--completely.

[AndVeeGeeMakes3]

ROM, haven't heard from you in a while. I hope (and I'm guessing it's true) that things are getting better as time passes. I still think those feelings are so interesting and, at times, difficult to deal with. I'm thinking about you.

Originally Posted by vue

1) did you not have a good relationship with your parents

2) did you have a negative adoption experience

When I'm asked that, it says to me that the adoptive parents are searching for some way to label me (or my adoptive parents) or place me (or them) in a box so we can be shelved because they know (or need to hope) their situation is not the same and therefore their child will never possibly feel like I do.

I might ask these questions (only, though, after I had come to know you, since I don't think those kind of questions, in general, are very tactful unless there's already some sort of relationship established, be it at a seminar like you mentioned, or through friendship), but I definitely wouldn't be asking them for the reasons you mention. I'd be asking them so that I could, hopefully, gather some tools to help my daughter be as peaceful and content as she can be, to be a better mother to her. I'm pretty certain that those are the reasons we are, most of us adoptive mothers, here in the first place. It's why I'm here.

We know we're in a non-typical situation and that the little lives that we've taken into our worlds will need some special tending so that they don't end up feeling cheated by their adoption experience. Most of us are constantly aware, I think, of the sadness that, usually, precedes this act of adoption (and we often bring some sad baggage of our own to the table), and that that sadness, in some ways, may never go away. And we are also, most of us, keenly aware that the sense of "meant to be" is very problematic - no matter how true it feels - because that necessitates loss for our child. And, though we love our children and wouldn't want them to go away, we know that the ideal is for children to be raised by the mothers who give birth to them.

So, we all know that the situation that we've entered is not the ideal. And so, sometimes it doesn't feel "right" (though that usually passes). I still look at my daughter sometimes and think, "What's she doing here?!!!" : "How did this happen?!" And she looks just like my husband (who's her bio uncle), unlike many adoptive families. I am very grateful for a place like MDC where I can come and, with relative safety, walk this walk with other women who are experiencing the same things I am. And I'm also grateful for the input that we receive from adult adoptees, although it can sometimes feel pretty scary to hear about unhappy adoption experiences.

[EricaRain]

Originally Posted by kalkiwendy

And so, sometimes it doesn't feel "right" (though that usually passes).

I saw the title of this thread a few days ago and didn't think of it till last night as my boys were in the tub and I suddenly looked at Toddler and thought, wow, this is my son, and he is going to be sharing experiences with my son - his brother AND cousin - for the rest of our lives, and every day for years and years to come. Wow, how awesome is that. I mean, I knew it on a logical level, but something about the moment made me see it on such a visceral, vibrant, living level, and it caught me by surprise. Just as the OP said, like going "oh yeah, I'm not babysitting this child, he's my baby!".

Mind you, I still look at my bio son sometimes too and wonder what he's doing here - how did I get so lucky to have both these little men!? I just don't know! I am so blessed.

And also very blessed to be able to share this with others who understand here on this forum

[RedOakMomma]

vue, I'm so glad you decided to comment on this thread. I imagine it can't be pleasant to read about adoptive parents not feeling attached to their children...and so for you to comment on such a trigger was a very generous thing of you to do. Thank you for sharing your feelings.

And yeah...the "meant to be" thing stings, actually. Taunya, I think from your post you mean that in a very kind way ...and I know lots of adoptive parents feel that way about their kids. I know it comes from a good place, a place of love. I've written about this before, but I have my own reasons for why that phrase stings. A family member said it once about my father's finding and falling in love with my step-mother....that it was "meant to be." That's fine, because I know that sometimes love feels like it was meant to be. The problem is for the rest of us who still feel the loss that enabled that meeting, that falling in love. Without my mother's sudden death, it wouldn't have happened. So was her death meant to be? Was our heartache meant to be?

See what I mean? Behind the happiness and love, their is loss and heartache. I don't believe E's mom's pain was meant to be. In a just and perfect world she'd be raising her daughter...I have no question of that.

Things are getting better. I don't know if a joke is appropriate here, but I'm going to make it. We were at the zoo today, E in her little bee costume, and she had the most horrendous explosive poop. As I sat there, on wipe number 12 and up to my arms in yellow junk, the thought popped into my head that trauma leads to faster attachment. I couldn't help but laugh a little, thinking that this diaper certainly rated somewhere on the trauma scale.

We'll get there. I know we will. I just didn't expect the feelings on this side of adoption. Pre-adoption felt like a well-worn path, except for all the uncertainty of time, but this was VERY different than I expected. I really appreciate, again, all the thoughts and sharing in this forum. It's helped a lot.

[Momma Aimee]

ROM

I just wanted to offer some HUGS and : to you.

I can not address the topic of the thread in any way (excpet to say there are days when I am STARTLED that these are my boys in teh house right now, and I gave birth to them but I still find it werid to be all grown up and THE MOM a lot of the time too)

But I could not read without a HUG for you and your family

Aimee