Deciding on openness...

[swd12422]

Let me start by saying I know every situation is different and what one person feels would be right for them might not be right for someone else. I would just like to see what your thoughts are on this situation:

We are adopting DS from foster care. Technically, he is a foster placement with us even though we are unlicensed, b/c we are his adoptive placement. He was in foster care from day two til he was placed with us at 4 months. We have been going to court (been four times now) to get the Bparents' rights terminated. Bmom knew before she gave birth that she wanted to have him adopted, but didn't have a plan and left the hospital before signing any papers. She disappeared, until three months later when she ended up in the hospital after a bad car accident. She has been in hospital/rehab ever since and is not in any shape to sign away her rights. They were just terminated by the court last week.

Through all this, her mother (BGrandmother) has been coming to court so she could see her grandson. She has been told numerous times that she can request a visit with him whenever she wants. She never has. Just shows up to see him at court. She was asked to take him and declined due to unemployment. She has always been very supportive of our wishes to adopt him, and sits with us in court (instead of behind her daughter's lawyers).

My dad came to court with me last week, and when we left, he said the best thing would be to sever all ties with her as soon as possible (when the adoption is final). I asked why, and he said she kept mentioning her other (married but childless) daughter and a niece who wanted to see him and be aunts to him. I think it's wonderful that he'll have even more family to love him, even if from far away. My dad thinks that one of them will want to contest the adoption and cause trouble. Even after it's final, they can sue and try to cause problems we don't need, he says.

I know that once the adoption is final, it will not be reversible. I'm not worried about that. I do worry that someone from the birth family will suddenly step up and take birth mom's side and say she wasn't treated fairly or that they were never asked to parent him and they wanted to.

Would you be concerned? Concerned enough to cut this nice lady off? (She is nice, if a little nutty....) All they want (so they say) is to know he's okay. Just pictures now and then and maybe a little visit once or twice a year. BGrandmother even said (before we came on the scene) that she wants contact, but not if it's going to get in the way of him being adopted by a loving family. IOW, if the family wants a closed adoption, she'll support it in order to get him a good home. Am I a sucker to believe all this at face value, despite what I know about the wackiness in the family (drugs, alcohol, multiple marriages, and that's just the grandmother)?

[Polliwog]

I wouldn't be concerned at all. I think that you can never have too many people to love and care for a child. You can control who is at a visit and the terms.

I have an open adoption with my son's maternal birth family. His birth mother is doing well and there's no safety concerns. C's maternal grandmother wanted to raise the younger two children but decided that it wouldn't be right for any of them. His maternal uncle loves seeing the kids about two times a year. We do family visits a few times a year, usually at his birth mother/grandmother's home. It's fairly fun and the kids have a good time being the center of attention. For us, it's been a very good thing.

[Sarahbunny]

I can't speak to kids from foster care - my dd was adopted as a newborn.

But, I can say that there are MANY people who will tell you that open adoption is a mistake, it can't work, the mother will "take the baby", the child will be confused, etc. People mean well, in general, but unless you are living it or have heard others talk about living it, you don't really understand it. My mom, for example, will never understand it.

We have a totally open adoption - we were scared of it until we heard another family (mom, dad, son, birthmother) speak about it at a meeting. Then we realized it wasn't so scary at all. In fact, it was really amazing! So we decided we wanted that and agreed to certain boundaries and then ended up way past them anyway.

You just never know. Yes, it can be uncomfortable at times, even in the best situation. I never wanted to tell M that we didn't at least give it our best try. And it's worked out so well for us.

[RedOakMomma]

I think your dad is probably from a generation that has a lot of outdated (and frankly, less healthy) ideas about adoption. Kids generally do better when they have contact of some kind, even if that contact isn't ideal, with their birth families.

I'd get the book "Sacred Connections" (I think that's the name) and read through it, or even give it to some family members. It's a lovely coffee-table book about adoption, and though all kinds of adoption are explored the emphasis is on the positives of open adoption.

[cpeckys]

Speaking as an adoptee, it would have been so amazing to have known my birth family while growing up. They are not perfect (nor am I, or my adoptive family but they are a part of me. I looked at people on the street wondering if I was related to them. I wondered if my birth family cared about me at all. I spent my birthdays wondering if there was someone else out there thinking about me on that day.
As a young adult, I hired an adoption "detective" and found my birth mother. That was 14 years ago. For me, that was one of the most important decisions of my life.
I would be so so angry if my adoptive family had had the ability to let me have a relationship with my birth family and they stood in the way.
When I was adopted, it was pretty much all closed. For me, that was traumatic...for others, it is not as big of a deal. I really think it should be the choice of the child, but again, that is my opinion.
As an adoptive mother (although, I am STILL waiting for him to come home), it breaks my heart that his first mother will not play a bigger role in his and our life. I would love to have her be a more present part of our daily lives.
Good luck!!

[Momily]

Our situation has a lot in common with yours. I adopted DS at birth in what was a pretty closed adoption -- letters and pictures only. The agency told me that that is what the birth family had requested. l later found out that they told the birth family that they had no families interested in an open adoption with a similar situation.

DS's birth mom died shortly before his 8th birthday. It shouldn't have been a shock -- I knew she had major health issues that had been a factor in her decision to place. However, it was. I had somehow always assumed that my DS would be able to "choose" whether or not to meet her -- and now that choice was stolen from him.

We sent flowers to the family, and his grandmother wrote back and begged me to continue the phone calls. She also asked for one phone call so that she could hear in person that she was OK. I called her, invited her out to dinner, and while there we decided on an open adoption arrangement with visits.

It was the best decision I ever made (besides adopting him in the first place). Yes, it's complicated sometimes. I worry that she'll judge me when we show up with hair longer than she likes. I worry about how to explain to him our vastly different views on religion. I worry that extended family members who felt that they couldn't take on a medically needy infant will feel differently when faced with a bright, healthy, well behaved 9 year old. But in general the hard parts are nothing compared to the joy I see on her face, and the peace I feel when I know that even if she doesn't live until he's 18 (she's in her 80s with multiple health issues) he'll always have the memories.

DS doesn't seem to distinguish between his "first grandma" and his "nana". I mean, of course he can tell the difference, but he doesn't see one as more "real" or more "important". He brought both to his last school performance and none of his classmates blinked when he told them "this is the grandma I had first".

[queenjane]

I'm somewhat in the same situation...i was happy to keep contact with my baby's relative, who seemed to want to adopt him but knew it wasnt feasible in his life. I thought it would be great...i got the impression that most of the family was ok/upstanding, that it was just K.'s mother who had problems....the relative seemed to have a special role in the other sibs lives, i thought he would be our connection to that whole family. Everything was going along fine, he had my cell number and email addy, i sent him pics. At the last mtg (which he claims he didnt know was the last mtg even though the worker and i told him on several occasions), i asked if he'd keep contact, he said of course. He promised to make copies of pics of baby in hospital after birth with bio mom.

Then, after that last visit....nothing. No calls, no email. Never responded to the pics i emailed him. A month later, i get a frantic call from my adoption worker, turns out dear uncle makes all sorts of trouble at agency, claiming he has rights, saying how they can't keep him from the baby, he has rights to see him, he wants visits to continue. They suggested that due to his outrageous and unexpected behavior i cut off all contact. THEN i find out from the foster worker that he actually went down to the court and talked to the attorney (the state/county guy, i guess, the one who asked for TPR to occur??) demanding he have rights (even though he has stated on numerous occasions he has no intentions to adopt.) And he demanded the GALs name/number (she was totally supportive of baby staying here.)....i dont get it. I dont get why he would go to such lengths to claim rights to contact, when i was more than willing to give him contact...and i STILL havent heard from him...?!? Why wouldnt he pick up the phone and call me??

Sorry to hijack....it sounds like in your situation grandma has been appropriate and contact will be a good thing. I think you should at the very least send pics and update her every now and then...that may evolve into more contact as well, depending on what everyone is comfortable with.

I had envisioned getting together every month with the other sibs, attending their family get togethers, just making them an extended part of our family....but now i'm not so sure what i want to do, i feel kind of blindsided. What sucks is in the end its the kid that loses out when contact is cut off.


Katherine

[lamamax3]

From the responses I read to the OP, I see that the popular choice is an adoption that is as open as possible. I have a couple of real life experiences that lead me to believe that it isn't always the best option for the child and adoptive family...

I used to babysit a little girl who was adopted at birth from a biomom who was having lots of drug problems. It was an independant adoption, so the mom had full contact info on the adoptive parents. A couple of years after they adopted their daughter, the mom called from rehab to say she was pregnant again and offerred them her new baby. At that point, they had also gotten some unwanted calls from her on other topics. They did not want to adopt her second child and strenghthen their connection to this woman. I think it would have been to their benefit to have any contact between themselves and the biomom through an attorney or agency or social worker. That doesn't mean no openness, although the mom was never interested in seeing her daughter or writing to her or anything. It would just have given the parents a way to think things through without feeling like they were put on the spot.

My own nephew's father left when he was two. The poor baby went through years of asking if every man he saw on the street was his father. His dad would call every four months or so and promise to send him a present. My nephew would check the mail every single day for that package, which never came. Every time he'd settle down and stop talking about his father, the man would call and stir him up again. I never want to put my new child in that position of emotional ups and downs. No one should be made to live in that limbo if there are loving people around to save them from it. My sister has been more like an aunt than a mother to her son, and my parents have raised him (he's ten now). We have had discussions about how your parents are the people who care for you and love you and provide for you, and not always the people who created you. We've also talked about how some people just don't know how to be parents. My nephew knows that his dad is out there somewhere, but he doesn't have any interest in finding him anymore. When he's a teenager, he may want to meet him, and even if no one else in the family wants to help him, I would. I accept that my adopted child may want to know more about his/her biological parents at some point, and I will help them too.

Our new child will be of a different race than us, so his/her adoption will be pretty obvious from the beginning. We will strive from the first day to make sure that he does not spend his toddler and childhood years searching for someone who is not truly there.

Please don't take this as an attack on the wonderful, functional open adoptions that others may have experienced. I'm sure that there are plenty of situations with biomoms who follow through and have a responsible relationship with their adopted children. I just wanted to throw in an opposing viewpoint for discussion

[Polliwog]

But there's a range of openness. I could just be an exchange of letters, or pictures, or both. It doesn't have to be full contact.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by BethNC

But there's a range of openness. I could just be an exchange of letters, or pictures, or both. It doesn't have to be full contact.

I think for me, "openness" even has less to do with contact, and more to do with information. If that makes any sense. Knowing who your people are, where you came from, having none of that be a secret. If anyone in my child's life, birthfamily, adoptive family, or just a friend, were to treat him disrespectfully (by never meeting committments as the PP is concerned about)..i would try to resolve that issue, and if impossible i would shield my child from that person. I dont think i would cut them off in *anticipation* of that happening though.

For the OP, it seems the birthrelatives have been totally appropriate...i think cutting them off completely at this point would be cruel.


Katherine

[Sarahbunny]

I've never thought of an open adoption as a way to avoid keeping secrets - that's certainly not why we pursued one. DD would have known she was adopted whether it was open, semi-open, closed, etc.

Open adoption, in our case, was so there was no time that dd would have to meet C. She would already know her and she wouldn't have to wonder if she was going to hurt my feelings by asking about her.

[swd12422]

ITA with Sarahbunny that regardless of how much direct contact he has with his bfamily, he'll definitely know they exist. We don't plan to have any secrets from him about his life situation, but I'm also not going to let him be exposed to anything harmful or negative WRT his bfamily.

I'm relatively comfortable with BGrandmother b/c I've met her a few times. BMom, on the other hand, is a wild card. Her accident left her w/ no short-term memory and she's just finding out that she had a baby. She may or may not ever be able to recover enough to live on her own, but if she gets out of the hospital and doesn't remember wanting to have him adopted, then what? I know legally it's not an issue, but I'll feel awful if she thinks we all stole her baby. Even if that's not what happened. Even though I know every effort has been made to consider her rights.

So then what, if it gets ugly? Would it be better that he doesn't know all the ugly details, or better that we have to address why it's so ugly?

I guess I'm thinking that we'll cross that bridge if we find it and in the meantime he'll get to have an even bigger family. I know I can't protect him from something that may or may not happen that I have no control over anyway. I certainly don't want him to go through anything like what lamamax3 describes.

I know I'll at least send cards/letters through the agency, but I'm wavering on how much personal contact to let them expect. I guess maybe once all is final I'll sit down with BGrandmother and feel out how much she and the rest of the family want. I just find it strange that everyone is professing interest in him, but no one has requested a visit in the 10 months he's been in foster care.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by Sarahbunny

I've never thought of an open adoption as a way to avoid keeping secrets - that's certainly not why we pursued one. DD would have known she was adopted whether it was open, semi-open, closed, etc.

Open adoption, in our case, was so there was no time that dd would have to meet C. She would already know her and she wouldn't have to wonder if she was going to hurt my feelings by asking about her.

If at some point C was inappropriate, made threats, etc, that made you feel you would need to limit the type of contact you had...would you then feel you had a "closed" adoption, though?

I've heard PAPs say they dont want an open adoption, because they dont want the birthmother actively involved in raising the child, like a second parent (even though most of us here know thats really not what it is)....they arent comfortable, for example, disclosing their full contact info (address, ph number etc) to birthfamily. So they seek a closed adoption. But i thought openness was a continuum....and can fall anywhere from pics and info exchanged a few times a year, to being a part of each other's family.

There are plenty of people who grew up knowing they were adopted, and yet were missing vital pieces of info about where they came from and who they are, info that could have been available had the adoption been more open....to me, thats separate than having a full relationship and knowing someone as extended family...which may or may not happen in every open adoption. (Not speaking from experience here, so please let me know if i'm clueless! )

I wouldnt consider my baby's adoption closed, even though i've never met his mother and she has not seen him since birth. No one knows where she is, and yet there is a way to contact me if she so chooses (through her relative), and i would be happy to have some type of contact with her if that happens. I also really wanted to know the rest of the family, to have my baby still be included as one of their family....yet they havent pursued that with me, even though i offered, dont know why.


Katherine

[Momily]

I don't think of closed adoption as a way of keeping secrets, but it does end up with the child missing information that they are entitled to.

When our adoption was closed the only family member I had info on was his birthmother -- and most of that info was medical. One thing I knew was that she had major mental health issues. DS is a very gentle child. He can be very passive (in an empathetic kind of way, he'd rather make you happy then disagree with you), and he's not much of a talker, although he's a natural performer with a great since of humor. Given his family history it was easy for me to look at this and worry about depression.

A few months ago we attended a party in honor of his cousin who was going off to college, at the home of his uncle. Another cousin, a recent college grad was there too. You know what -- all 3 men were gentle, empathetic, funny guys who didn't talk much unless they were telling a joke or filling a functional need (e.g. offering to get you a plate of barbecue). All 3 are very successful for their age, have lots of strong connections to others (whether it's his uncle's wife of 25 years, or his cousin's circle of close friends), and are very comfortable in their skin. Knowing that, and seeing them really changed the way I look at my son.

If his adoption were still closed (and while we did letters and pictures through the agency, I still consider it pretty closed since there was no exchange of addresses, last names, or face to face contact), there's no way a "family history" could convey that info.

I'm not saying that every adoption should be fully open, although obviously I have a bias in favor of at least trying for openness.

[queenjane]

There are so soooo many traits that my family and i share, my brothers (well, most of them, i have five altogether) are all very very similar, very sensitive, artsy types, my sisters and i take more after our mother....we all had pretty similar experiences in school, underachieving is pretty common, etc....had one of us been adopted by a high-achieving, sports oriented family, we'd really stick out. Even something like the tendancy of some of my family to have anxiety issues is a trait that can be traced to extended family members. I already wonder what traits my K. has inherited from his birthfamily...i dont know much about them, what they like to do, are they musical? Athletic? Do they tend to have a certain sense of humor? (My family tends to be sarcastic)...a common saying in my family is "Oh, well he does that because he's a Lastname" or "Thats a Lastname trait if i ever saw one!"....do i stop saying that now, because K. isnt inheriting those traits genetically? Or do i not worry about it, because he IS a "Lastname"?? Already i see how much he is like my older son in personality (as far as being fearless and superduper active, and a little defiant), i point that out to my older son, how his little brother must be taking after him. Dont know if that would be comforting or irritating to an adopted child though.


Katherine

[Sarahbunny]

Kathering - I totally understand that some adoptions must be closed. Or semi-open, or fully open, or whatnot. I understand, too, that we are very lucky - C is a great person who is fully committed to an open adoption with us.

I only meant that we never meant for an open adoption as a way to avoid secret keeping.

[AndVeeGeeMakes3]

SWD - I think you're right on track. While, like you, I know that there isn't one way to do things, I do think that, whenever it is safe, open adoption has to be the better way. If for no other reason than to give the child a greater context for their identity formation.

I hope it stays good for you.

[Sarahbunny]

Originally Posted by queenjane

There are so soooo many traits that my family and i share, my brothers (well, most of them, i have five altogether) are all very very similar, very sensitive, artsy types, my sisters and i take more after our mother....we all had pretty similar experiences in school, underachieving is pretty common, etc....had one of us been adopted by a high-achieving, sports oriented family, we'd really stick out. Even something like the tendancy of some of my family to have anxiety issues is a trait that can be traced to extended family members. I already wonder what traits my K. has inherited from his birthfamily...i dont know much about them, what they like to do, are they musical? Athletic? Do they tend to have a certain sense of humor? (My family tends to be sarcastic)...a common saying in my family is "Oh, well he does that because he's a Lastname" or "Thats a Lastname trait if i ever saw one!"....do i stop saying that now, because K. isnt inheriting those traits genetically? Or do i not worry about it, because he IS a "Lastname"?? Already i see how much he is like my older son in personality (as far as being fearless and superduper active, and a little defiant), i point that out to my older son, how his little brother must be taking after him. Dont know if that would be comforting or irritating to an adopted child though.


Katherine

It's kind of a fine line, in my opinion. I say M is definitely a "ourlastname" because she likes to watch tv. Or because she seems to have a mind of her own, like my dh. Or because she recovers quickly and moves on, like me.

But I don't say something like..M is definitely "ourlastname" because she looks like me. Other people may say it, and depending on the situation/person, I either say, "actually she looks quite a bit like C" or I just say thanks. But *I* don't say it.

It never bothered me when people said i looked like my mom when I was little. We would look at each other and smile, like we had a secret.

What I am going to try to avoid is people saying M is like me/dh/lastname because somehow they think that is a NICE thing to say, since she is just a poor adoptee and maybe this will make her feel like part of a family. KWIM?

And, I have had time to read more of the last few posts. No, if C started being totally inappropriate in some way and we ended up easing up on visits or whatnot, I would still consider this an open adoption. We all discussed what would happen if C showed up to a visit under some sort of influence, for example, and the joint agreement was that the visit would be terminated and it was our discretion as to whether that one would be made up.

I cannot imagine her doing so, fyi. But that was something we discussed in the few days before M was born.
Again, though, ours was a routine domestic adoption, for lack of a better term, and I am sure there is one out there. It wasn't a foster care adoption where rights were terminated and CPS were involved, etc.

And, to be totally honest, our agreement was for a minimum of openness - we took it further after our relationship developed more and we were comfortable with doing so. That is how we would do the next one as well. Agree to our absolute minimum with the understanding that relationships change over time.

OA, the way ours is, is not for everyone. I can't explain it, except to say if you are in it, it's not that strange. People will forever think it is bizarre though and make comments about M's mother, and they don't mean me. Even my own mother does that, so I am not surprised when others do.

[AndVeeGeeMakes3]

Originally Posted by Sarahbunny

Other people may say it, and depending on the situation/person, I either say, "actually she looks quite a bit like C" or I just say thanks. But *I* don't say it.

I don't really think it's a big deal if you were to say it. And, I don't know, maybe she wouldn't want the fact of her adoption being the constant and consistent reply to every compliment. I guess "thanks" is all right, but, if she does look like you, why not just admit it?

This morning I mentioned to Grace's great-grandmother that Grace's feet are just like dh's, in that they're very narrow and difficult to fit. Grace's grandmother responded, "Well, you know, A's were like that last time I remember." It was, yet again, a kind of jab. Fine then, her bmom had/has narrow feet. Well, so does dh. And, so, they're alike. No point, really, in denying that or belaboring the very insignificant moment with yet another mention of Grace's adoption. Can't a kid have narrow feet without having to be subjected to a further reminder of something that might be kind of painful?

What I am going to try to avoid is people saying M is like me/dh/lastname because somehow they think that is a NICE thing to say, since she is just a poor adoptee and maybe this will make her feel like part of a family. KWIM?

Well, you can't change people's ideas about the nature of adoption (as charity) by reminding them that your child actually doesn't really look like you. In fact, I don't know that it should really be our mission, as adoptive parents, to change anyone's ideas about it by using our kids as soap boxes. KWIM? Who cares if people are grasping at ways to show that they think your daughter seems right at home with your family?



I guess y'all can file that in the FWIW column.

[swd12422]

I think we're probably going to face a lot of this with the birth family. Every time the grandmother sees him, she goes on about how he looks EXACTLY like her daughter (bmom) when she was a baby. I can see the resemblance (I've seen her picture), so it's not like she's wrong, but I don't know that I want it to be the focus of every meeting. It's probably going to confuse him even more b/c everyone says he looks like DH and me. (I don't see it, but there is a definite resemblance between him, my sister, my mom, and DH's nephew, so we have likeness on both sides of the family.)

And then there's the awkwardness of a meeting with bmom at some point. Do we just risk having it be awful and awkward and possibly hurtful, and then help him sort through it later? Or do we avoid it altogether? It seems like it'd be near impossible to have a relationship with the family but not bmom.