My daughter is getting bullied!

[HarperRose]

So there's a little girl (7 yrs old, we'll call her Violet) in our complex and she's quite a rude little person. She is manipulative and bossy and mean. : She says mean things to my daughter and the 2 other girls that live in our complex and she's sneaky about it. And it ALWAYS happens when adults are not around -- when the kids walk home from the bus stop or on the bus itself, where the driver can't hear/see. (His focus is the road, obviously, as it should be.) And it has not happened at school, to my knowledge. (Note to self: Ask dd today.)

The kids are dropped off at the entrance of the apartment complex. On the walk from bus stop to home, Violet takes dd aside and whispers to her that she doesn't want to be dd's friend anymore and neither do the other girls, and things like that. She does this to the other girls, as well. She tells them not to be dd's friend and if they are, then Violet won't be their friend anymore. I've witnessed this behavior several times when I've been present and I put a stop to it. Also, when dd has issues w/ Violet I just tell dd, "It's ok. You don't have to play with her. It's not nice of her to treat you that way. The other girls ARE your friends and you can play with them." I also tell Violet that she needs to not say those things to people because it hurts feelings and it's not nice. She only says, "ok" and moves on. She's dismissive.

Violet also is mean to dd on the bus. I asked the bus driver if he could separate Violet since dd isn't the only one in the complex having issues w/ her and he did. DD and the other 2 girls all sit together. I don't know who Violet sits with. Unfortunately, I'm still hearing from dd that Violet says mean things to her and doesn't want to be her friend and tells the other girls not to be dd's friend.

Of course, dd comes home crying. (She always manages to remain friends with the other 2 girls, even though she's hearing otherwise from Violet on the bus & the walk to the apt.)

I did not know until yesterday that this was escalating. Dd came in Tuesday afternoon visibly upset (crying) and said Violet pushed her hard. I saw Violet walking up the stairs to her babysitter her and I told her, "Violet, do not push dd. It's not acceptable and it's not nice." She said ok and continued on her way. Later that night she called and told me she wanted to tell dd she was sorry. I was really surprised (Violet apologize??? I guess there's a first for everything...) but I thanked her and allowed her to speak w/ dd.

Wednesday morning I had breakfast w/ the kids before volunteering in the library and one of the other girls approached me and asked, "Did you know that Violet was being mean to dd yesterday?" I told her that dd had said Violet pushed her hard. The girl corrected me and said, "She pushed her AND she punched her right in the back. I saw it."

I thanked the girl for letting me know and talked w/ dd about it later. I told dd she wouldn't be playing with Violet for awhile because I don't like her behavior.

Up to this week it's been hurtful words and meanness on the bus & the walk home, but now she's pushing and punching and it's quite upsetting. Violet is sneaky about it and her mom is distracted trying to keep herself together as a single mom. (Recovering drug addict. She's trying really hard to keep it together and keep her kids. It's very obvious that she struggles a lot so I try to be encouraging.)

Violet was doing better for a little while, but she's being mean again. It's really discouraging for me to see my little girl so crushed. Daily!

I have not had an opportunity to speak w/ Violet's mom about it because I haven't seen her in several days, but I plan to. My phone isn't working right now, so I can't call her, but I'm thinking of leaving a note on her door. I briefly stated in the note what was going on and now it escalated. I also wrote that I'll meet them at the bus everyday now (ds2's naps have been right in the middle of bus arrival and I didn't want to disrupt that) and dd isn't going to be playing w/ Violet for awhile. I wrote, "We'll see if some space will help." The mom is very nice and has a lot on her plate, so I tried to be brief and kind. (If the roles were reversed I'd appreciate kindness.)

Part of me wants to be gentle and let the mom handle it but part of me wants to throttle the kid!!!

Ugh. I think when I get the kids from the bus today (dh is working from home, so one of us can stay w/ ds2) we'll say something to Violet. She is no longer allowed to play with dd because she says mean things to her and she hurts her and that behavior is unacceptable.

I hate this crap. (And this is just one more reason why we're seriously considering hs'ing dd...)

[Mom4tot]

Is it possible to meet them at the bus stop so Violet isn't alone with dd on the way home (up the stairs?) I would suggest letting the school know about it too. Just because it is happening on the bus doesn't mean the school won't intervene, they probably will. I also sugest talking to the mom and being direct but not accusatory. Remember to frame it as "how can we solve this?" as well as how Violet's behavior is unacceptable to you.

I'm sorry this is happening

[HarperRose]

Yeah, I plan to adjust ds2's naps so I can meet them at the bus. Up to this point, he would usually be asleep when the bus comes, but he's starting to adjust his routine again. (Dropping that morning nap, it looks like.)

I emailed the school counselor & dd's teacher so they were aware of it and her teacher said she'd keep an extra watchful eye at recess. The counselor told me I was doing everything right and to let her know if it happens at school so she can step in.

[Kirsten]

I'd definitely talk to the teacher and the principal. Most schools here have anti-bullying pledges and programs they do with the kids. I'd also limit contact with Violet, and meet the bus as you plan to do.

Much younger, but my dd2 had a boy who physically attacked her weekly at a toddler group (2 year olds). At first I thought it must have started over them both wanting the same toy or something, and maybe he didn't have the words to work through it so he pushed her. That was my assumption. But he continued, every week, to push her, hit her, etc. The teacher's wish was to give all our attention to the hurt child, and none to the child who had just hurt. Because even negative attention is still attention. Boy's mom felt terrible and shadowed him everywhere, but he'd still manage to hurt her. I was LIVID. She got to a point where she'd make this scary primal noise whenever she saw him.

So one day we are there, and he comes from another room - right up to dd - pushes her down and KICKS HER while she is on the ground crying! This is after a good two months of this. I was not in GD mode at that point. I picked him up and marched to the hall, where I put him down, got right to his level and said "YOU WILL NOT DO THAT EVER AGAIN!!" in about the meanest voice I could have used. Not planned; I just snapped. He never touched her again. They actually became friends after that. We started carpooling, and had many playdates at each other's houses - amazingly.

I don't think it would work the same with a 7 year old. Just saying that sometimes our kind explanations of "hitting isn't nice. Please don't do that." fall on deaf ears.

I think there are really two issues - the mean words and the hitting. Mean words hurt too of course - but you can explain to your dd how to deal with that. That is about Violet making bad choices, or having something unhappy in her own life that is coming out this way. But the hitting/pushing/etc HAS to stop. I'd worry less about the nice mom of the mean kid and more about getting it stopped. I think it is nice of you to consider her circumstances, and proceed with kindness. I just wouldn't let it stop you from protecting your kid.

Keep us posted. I hope it improves soon.

[HarperRose]

Well, I spoke w/ Violet. I told her that she is not allowed to be mean to dd, she is not allowed to hit her, push her, or punch her, it's mean and her behavior is unacceptable. Because of that she is not allowed to play with dd until her attitude changes.

Her response was, "Ok. [nod]" Then she went on her way.

Now that I've had time o process it, the kid showed no emotion when I was talking to her. Most other kids I know would have facial expressions. Violet was flat.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

I'd definitely talk to the teacher and the principal. Most schools here have anti-bullying pledges and programs they do with the kids. I'd also limit contact with Violet, and meet the bus as you plan to do.

Well, I emailed her teacher and the school counselor. Should I still email the principal?

Dd told me tonight that Violet is bossy to her at recess and hugs her in the hallway at school.

She's done that a few times before - sought out a hug from dd on the same day she's mean to her. Minutes later, in fact. Any thoughts on that? (I grew up in an abusive home -- it's an abuser's pattern from my perspective.)

I was not in GD mode at that point. I picked him up and marched to the hall, where I put him down, got right to his level and said "YOU WILL NOT DO THAT EVER AGAIN!!" in about the meanest voice I could have used. Not planned; I just snapped.

I understand! This girl is really pushing my GD (gentle discipline! ) buttons, as well.

My mom had a similar experience when one of my brother's was little. She got down to a kid's level and actually threatened him. "If you hurt my boy, I'm going to hurt you." She was mortified but the kid did leave my brother alone after that.

Keep us posted. I hope it improves soon.

I will. Thanks.

I left the note on Violet's door for her mom to read. I happened to be outside when she got it. I hope she takes it well. :

[Stella_luna]

Wow, if the kid's name was Jackie I would think your DD was in my DD's class. There is a girl/situation exactly like this in my DD's class this year. Jackie sounds exactly like Violet, except that she hasn't physically attacked my DD (yet). She is mean to her all day, keeps telling her she hates her, she isn't inviting her to her party, she makes fuin of my DD's glasses . Meanest kid I ever met, and next year I will tell the school she cannot be in class with my DD. She doesn't live in our neighborhood though, thank God.

So I know how it feels, mama. It breaks your heart, doesn't it? Why are these kids so *mean*? And I'm guessing your DD is a sweet, kind child, like mine is.

I'll be interested to know what happens with Violet's mom and if this gets resolved for you. It will give me some hope. I am scared to call Jackie's mom (I don't know her), although I am tempted.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by Stella_luna

So I know how it feels, mama. It breaks your heart, doesn't it? Why are these kids so *mean*? And I'm guessing your DD is a sweet, kind child, like mine is.

I don't get it, either. And yes, my dd is typically very sweet and kind. Well, except when her older bro harasses her.

I'll be interested to know what happens with Violet's mom and if this gets resolved for you. It will give me some hope. I am scared to call Jackie's mom (I don't know her), although I am tempted.

Confrontation is not my friend...

I hope your situation improves.

[vegmom]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

I don't think it would work the same with a 7 year old. Just saying that sometimes our kind explanations of "hitting isn't nice. Please don't do that." fall on deaf ears.

You have to be stern and strict about this. There should be zero tolerance to violence.

In 12 Keys For Raising Responsible Children by Ron G. Morrish says that kids need to workout their issues. Invite Violet over, make a yummy snack. Sit the kids down at the kitchen table.. Leave the room.. Get the kids to work out the issue, and don't let Violet leave until she has worked out the problem.

When I tried this method with my kids, I was surprised how well it worked. I would not have been able to resolve the problem in the same way that they had done it. Both of them were happy because it was a decision that they made and not a decision that was forced on them.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by vegmom

You have to be stern and strict about this. There should be zero tolerance to violence.

In 12 Keys For Raising Responsible Children by Ron G. Morrish says that kids need to workout their issues. Invite Violet over, make a yummy snack. Sit the kids down at the kitchen table.. Leave the room.. Get the kids to work out the issue, and don't let Violet leave until she has worked out the problem.

When I tried this method with my kids, I was surprised how well it worked. I would not have been able to resolve the problem in the same way that they had done it. Both of them were happy because it was a decision that they made and not a decision that was forced on them.

I'm all about having kids work it out. That's how we've handled it thus far. But that kid... there is just something about her. She's the first kid I've known that's so manipulative and sneaky like this. To this degree.

[mata]

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl

I'm all about having kids work it out. That's how we've handled it thus far. But that kid... there is just something about her. She's the first kid I've known that's so manipulative and sneaky like this. To this degree.

And I think with kids like that the first priority is *your* daughter. You tried-you don't owe the other child anything else except to send the message that your daughter is not to be bullied. I'm sorry-my daughter was bullied in kindergarten by a child who was manipulative and frankly, eerie, and the last thing I would have done was to invite her over for cookies and milk. I systematically put up the walls around my dd to keep that kid out-in the neighborhood, at the school, etc. Three years later the other girl doesn't even look at my dd. I probably sound a little harsh-but as someone who was picked on-if my mom invited the other kid over in an attempt to reach detente it would have been my worst nightmare!

[HarperRose]

Well, I met the kids at the bus and so did Violet's babysitter. So even if her mom hasn't had a chance to talk w/ me, she does seem to be dealing with it.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by mata

And I think with kids like that the first priority is *your* daughter. You tried-you don't owe the other child anything else except to send the message that your daughter is not to be bullied. I'm sorry-my daughter was bullied in kindergarten by a child who was manipulative and frankly, eerie, and the last thing I would have done was to invite her over for cookies and milk. I systematically put up the walls around my dd to keep that kid out-in the neighborhood, at the school, etc. Three years later the other girl doesn't even look at my dd. I probably sound a little harsh-but as someone who was picked on-if my mom invited the other kid over in an attempt to reach detente it would have been my worst nightmare!

Yes, to all of this. That's exactly how I'm feeling and dealing w/ it.

[vegmom]

Originally Posted by mata

And I think with kids like that the first priority is *your* daughter. You tried-you don't owe the other child anything else except to send the message that your daughter is not to be bullied. I'm sorry-my daughter was bullied in kindergarten by a child who was manipulative and frankly, eerie, and the last thing I would have done was to invite her over for cookies and milk. I systematically put up the walls around my dd to keep that kid out-in the neighborhood, at the school, etc. Three years later the other girl doesn't even look at my dd. I probably sound a little harsh-but as someone who was picked on-if my mom invited the other kid over in an attempt to reach detente it would have been my worst nightmare!

Its about teaching kids about responsibility. Violet's mom is obviously having problems. Who else is going to teach this girl that her actions have repurcusions and that she has to resolve them herself. What ever happened to "it takes a village to raise a child". This girl is going to be a terror when she grows up to be a young teen.

I was tormented in grade school. Kids are mean!! My self esteem plummeted to the depths of the earth. I tried to commit suicide 3 times because of my peers.

But I never faced my tormentors/bullies in a conflict resolution environment. It was always in the school yard and it ended up with me in tears.

Why do we have to wait until there is a conflict to resolve the problem?? Why don't we prevent it. If this situation does not get resolved she will probably do it again and again to someone else.

This child has to take responsibility for her actions. She has to make the choice to solve it. Face to face in your home will probably make her a bit shy, but she knows that she would have to own up to her bad behaviour and resolve it.

[mammastar2]

I agree that your first priority is your daughter, and making sure that she is not left open to this kind of thing. It sounds like you're doing a good job with that, and that Violet's mom seems to be interceding too.

I do wonder though, if all of the "don't" messages to Violet are starting to feed her nasty behavior? What I mean by that is that, if all Violet is getting is "don't do X, it's mean," "don't do Y, it's not nice," and the other girls are not sitting with her, she may be internalizing it as "I'm a person who is mean, not nice, and who nobody wants to be around," and acting accordingly.

What if you shifted the response a bit to "I know that you can be kind and a good friend," or "I think that if you use nice words with your friends, they'll want to sit with you" - flipping it around to having higher expectations of her.

I think that sometimes when kids are told a lot that they've been mean (even when they have!), it becomes a bit of a vicious cycle. The trick is to make it clear the behavior is unacceptable, while reassuring them that they're more and better than that.

[mamatoakd]

I'm with mata. Violet's behavior actually sounds weird to me. Kids can be mean but this little girl seems to have some real anger boiling over. I'm sure she'd be a fine guest for cookies and milk at your home, but it's not going to stop her from acting out against your daughter again. She's proven that she knows how to act around adults.

I wouldn't just email the teacher and counselor, I would call them directly. Email is good for keeping a record of your conversations but if this continues to escalate, a face-to-face conversation will be much more effective. If Violet acts out even once more, I'd request that a meeting be set up between you and the teacher (cc the councelor) to discuss what needs to be done from here. Make sure they know that this is serious and that you're serious about ensuring your dd's safety on her way to and from school, as well as her ability to be able to focus on schoolwork given the fact that she is being bullied. Put them to work and don't worry about going to the top (principal or beyond) if you don't feel like you're being heard. Keeping a log of conversations and incidents will be important if you need to keep moving up the chain.

Keep the lines of communication open between yourself and Violet's mother, but don't make your main concern the other mom's feelings.

I'd also make sure that I got to the bus stop every day, no matter what else was going on in the world.

I dealt with a similar situation with my oldest dd a couple years ago. I also hate confrontations and prefer to be pleasant at all times, but when it comes to my children, I'm like a mama bear!

Good luck and I'll be keeping an eye out for your updates.

[mata]

Originally Posted by vegmom

Its about teaching kids about responsibility. Violet's mom is obviously having problems. Who else is going to teach this girl that her actions have repurcusions and that she has to resolve them herself. What ever happened to "it takes a village to raise a child". This girl is going to be a terror when she grows up to be a young teen.

I was tormented in grade school. Kids are mean!! My self esteem plummeted to the depths of the earth. I tried to commit suicide 3 times because of my peers.

But I never faced my tormentors/bullies in a conflict resolution environment. It was always in the school yard and it ended up with me in tears.

Why do we have to wait until there is a conflict to resolve the problem?? Why don't we prevent it. If this situation does not get resolved she will probably do it again and again to someone else.

This child has to take responsibility for her actions. She has to make the choice to solve it. Face to face in your home will probably make her a bit shy, but she knows that she would have to own up to her bad behaviour and resolve it.

It's unrealistic to think a face-to-face, particularly one conducted by the parent of the bullied child, would make everything hunky dory. Imo, it would exacerbate the problem, and more than likely the bullied child would end up incuring even more wrath.

OP-good luck to you-with my dd what worked was helping her learn how to project an energy that didn't come across as vulnerable. At the time she was new to interactions with those types of kids, and didn't know how to deal with them. Her bullier would hold her hostage on the playground and she would listen to the girl too long, not walk away from her, not put her in her place so to speak because she didn't want to be mean. But once she got permission to take care of herself, even if that meant she had to be mean back, all was well.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by mamatoakd

I'm with mata. Violet's behavior actually sounds weird to me.

It is weird. She is, IMO, a potential sociopath if she's not helped or stopped now while she's young. Emotionless, flat when corrected, sneaky, deceitful, etc.

When she's angry or upset by something, she will run out of the house. She's done it to her grandparents, she's done it to me.

One day she took off crying. This was, like, the 2nd time we'd ever had her over to play. Didn't respond when I asked her what was wrong, she just left. I was shocked and wanted to be sure she was ok so I could talk to my dd about what happened and help them come to a solution. So while I called out to her and chased her, she ran out of my sight, stopped, waited for me to see her and call her name, then took off again. And she'd stopped crying. She lives 2 buildings over.

Tell me that's not weird.

I chased her all the way back to her gma's and talked to her gma, who was totally cool about it. She didn't give Violet any consolation, said she knew how Violet is and not to worry about it.

Other times (several!), she will show up at my house and moments later I get a call from her very angry gma asking me to send her home, she had NOT been given permission to come play.

I'm sure she'd be a fine guest for cookies and milk at your home, but it's not going to stop her from acting out against your daughter again. She's proven that she knows how to act around adults.

Oh, absolutely. I've spent the last 8 mos giving this kid stability and positive reinforcement as often as I can. We've had her over many, many times, she's spent the afternoon, we've shared meals with her, etc., and she does fine. Until she has dd alone or can get her off to the side or in dd's room when she thinks I'm not paying attention.

We've let dd spend some time at her house or her gma's house (her gma babysits her a lot) and every time dd comes home crying. Violet tells scary stories, Violet tells her she's not her friend, Violet bosses her and tells her what to do, Violet hides her new book and says it's "lost."

No. I'm done giving her my time and patience. My kid has suffered for it and I'm not going to let it continue.

I wouldn't just email the teacher and counselor, I would call them directly. Email is good for keeping a record of your conversations but if this continues to escalate, a face-to-face conversation will be much more effective. If Violet acts out even once more, I'd request that a meeting be set up between you and the teacher (cc the councelor) to discuss what needs to be done from here. Make sure they know that this is serious and that you're serious about ensuring your dd's safety on her way to and from school, as well as her ability to be able to focus on schoolwork given the fact that she is being bullied. Put them to work and don't worry about going to the top (principal or beyond) if you don't feel like you're being heard. Keeping a log of conversations and incidents will be important if you need to keep moving up the chain.

I agree. I'm at the school at least once a week (I volunteer), often more, so I'm face to face w/ all of these ppl regularly. It's a very open line of communication and I intend for it to stay that way.

I think I'll email the principal anyway, too, so she is also aware.

I'd also make sure that I got to the bus stop every day, no matter what else was going on in the world.

Yes. I also get another neighbor's dd off the bus and she has asked that I be there specifically so Violet won't try to talk her dd into wandering off in the neighborhood somewhere. (They've had issues w/ her, too, and they've only known her for 3 mos. We've known her for 8.)

[LynnS6]

Originally Posted by Justthatgirl

Now that I've had time to process it, the kid showed no emotion when I was talking to her. Most other kids I know would have facial expressions. Violet was flat.

this makes me wonder how much abuse and what kind of abuse that Violet has suffered in the past? Not excusing her behavior, but it might point to issues that are deeper than you can work out yourself.

I would talk to the counselor face to face and say that you're worried about this child's emotional development. If you can bring up specific situations that are worrisome (the pattern of abuse/reconciliation, the lack of expression, the running away), it's possible that they can work in school with her too/direct her mom to resources.

[HarperRose]

Originally Posted by LynnS6

this makes me wonder how much abuse and what kind of abuse that Violet has suffered in the past? Not excusing her behavior, but it might point to issues that are deeper than you can work out yourself.

Yeah -- I really have little knowledge of the child's upbringing. But I know it's way more than I can deal with.

I would talk to the counselor face to face and say that you're worried about this child's emotional development. If you can bring up specific situations that are worrisome (the pattern of abuse/reconciliation, the lack of expression, the running away), it's possible that they can work in school with her too/direct her mom to resources.

I think I'll do that.

Well, the girl was playing w/ dd on the sidewalk when I got back from a walk. I don't know why -- dh told dd to stay on the porch (he was setting up to grill dinner)then I called dd in when Violet went inside for a minute. When Violet came back I told her she can not play with dd for awhile. I need to see her be the nice, kind girl I know she can be. She said she was now but I told her, "I can see that you're working on it really hard and I'm glad, but I need to see it for a long time. Not just one day. Keep working on it." She said ok and left.

I feel bad saying no but I would feel worse if dd got hurt again. I'm not going to put her in harm's way again. One day is SO not enough time to see a change.