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What's the difference between sexism and misogyny?? - Page 2

post #21 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
a slap in the face, yeah
http://www.mum.org/slapques.htm
Wow, I was kinda hoping I was wrong about the face slapping.
post #22 of 41
A better link

Quote:
Actually, it was more of a firm tap, but it was enough of a departure from our usually loving exchange for me to ask her what was going on.
I seriously doubt the majority of mothers are whalloping their girls in the face. I know if I was part of a culture with this tradition, I would know better than to actually cause pain.

The article does go on to talk about what an awful message it sends, but I think there are much worse examples of sexism and misogyny to be concerned about.
post #23 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hera View Post
A better link



I seriously doubt the majority of mothers are whalloping their girls in the face. I know if I was part of a culture with this tradition, I would know better than to actually cause pain.

The article does go on to talk about what an awful message it sends, but I think there are much worse examples of sexism and misogyny to be concerned about.
It's still disgusting. That IS misogyny. It's ritualized hatred, hatred of the very thing that makes us women. It's insanity. No amount of folkloric explanations (waking her from childhood slumber?? Give me a break!) makes it ok to slap a girl, even with a symbolic 'tap'.

:

Sorry, Hera, my intensity is aimed not so much at you than at the people who slap their daughters for being female.
post #24 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
It's still disgusting. That IS misogyny. It's ritualized hatred, hatred of the very thing that makes us women. It's insanity. No amount of folkloric explanations (waking her from childhood slumber?? Give me a break!) makes it ok to slap a girl, even with a symbolic 'tap'.

:

Sorry, Hera, my intensity is aimed not so much at you than at the people who slap their daughters for being female.
What makes you think it has to do with hatred?
post #25 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigianna View Post
What makes you think it has to do with hatred?
What makes you think it doesn't?
post #26 of 41
Because it's a slap. At its root it is violence. Yet again, a girl is punished for being a girl. Why a violent act?? Why not a group hug from significant women? Better to bring her a cup of coffee if you want to "wake her" from childhood into adulthood.
post #27 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by frog View Post
What makes you think it doesn't?
Because I think the people who practice certain rituals are better arbiters of the meaning/symbolism/significance of said rituals than are outsiders.
post #28 of 41
I really have to agree with Brigianna. There are so many violent rituals and cross over to womanhood/manhood in cultures and many of them don't mean they are rooted in hatred.
post #29 of 41
And so many other cultures are able to symbolize the change from a girl to a woman through rituals that show a womans strength and independence from her parents instead of hitting them.
post #30 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by journeymom View Post
Because it's a slap. At its root it is violence. Yet again, a girl is punished for being a girl. Why a violent act?? Why not a group hug from significant women? Better to bring her a cup of coffee if you want to "wake her" from childhood into adulthood.
What makes you think it's punishment? Sometimes the negative has to be symbolized as well.

The religious tradition in which I was raised has a tradition of a ritual in which the young person coming of age is "slapped" (really, tapped)... not as punishment, but as symbolism of the challenges that the young person will face as an adult.
post #31 of 41
well, a lot of people do "birthday slaps" too, one per year, I don't thinkthey are punishing the child for ageing.


*I know nothing about the menstruation/slap thing, but I think that in a culture where slapping is commonplace, it may not carry as much weight as it does here*
post #32 of 41
Apparently I killed this
post #33 of 41
As long as the practical results of sexism mean that abuse shelters are 90% for women, that women make 75% of the wages that men do for similar jobs, that 80+% of executive jobs are held by men, that Viagra is in several health programs while bc pills aren't, that female victims of sexual abuse are considered instigators: hell yes sexism and misogyny are the same thing!
post #34 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonee View Post
As long as the practical results of sexism mean that abuse shelters are 90% for women, that women make 75% of the wages that men do for similar jobs, that 80+% of executive jobs are held by men, that Viagra is in several health programs while bc pills aren't, that female victims of sexual abuse are considered instigators: hell yes sexism and misogyny are the same thing!
post #35 of 41
Because we all know that men are never the victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.
post #36 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
Because we all know that men are never the victims of domestic violence or sexual abuse.
Who said that? How is it even pertinent to the conversation?
post #37 of 41
It gets to me when people bring up domesic violence and sexual abuse when most men are being raised to feel like they can't report it when it happens. When they become the bad guy for trying to protect themselves...

The women's only problem that they are viewed as, benifits no one.
post #38 of 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post
It gets to me when people bring up domesic violence and sexual abuse when most men are being raised to feel like they can't report it when it happens. When they become the bad guy for trying to protect themselves...

The women's only problem that they are viewed as, benifits no one.
Unfortunately, you are correct. However, we live in a patriarchal society where men have ruled and still continue to rule by a large majority. And for years back, women were probably the only people being sexually abused and beaten down by men with no type of help or intervention. I am not 100% certain but I believe this to be the truth. So, men like yourself are going to have to understand that it's nothing personal when we speak as if domestic violence and sexual abuse only happens to women.
post #39 of 41
I don't want to turn this into a debate. But I have ask. Wouldn't it be better if can work towards ending all sexual abuse and domestic violence instead of just focusing on the women it happens to?

That way no one is exept from punishment regardless of gender (or age, or social status etc) and it becomes equal?

I do doubt that only women were being subjected to this, only that we only heard about the women. I can't remember which study it was (I'll try to find it), but in the study only about 15% of men were willing to admit they had been on the recieving end of violence in their relationship, but something close to 80% of women were willing to admit they had commited acts of violence against their spouse or boyfriend.
post #40 of 41
I think helping men be able to admit and deal with their own abuse will help them end abuses they commit.

More men are in prision than women. Majority of men in prison come from abusive home. Repeating the cycle.

The part of the way to stop a cycle is to stop the blame game. Blaming the patriarchal society doesn't stop the abuse. It just keeps on letting it happening.

Plus it ignores many issues of DV. Like homosexual DV.

When it comes to sexual abuse of boys some of it is so "normalized"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1...mment_16888362

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/2678479.stm

I was just astonished how "normalized" it was for George Hamilton. It makes his poor track record with woman understandable.

******
I read an article about a father making their son's fight each other. The dad getting mad at one boy because him stopping was him being a wuss. When this type of violence is normalize and not being a wuss or weak is taught to our boys they are only goin gto repeat and live up to what they are told they are suppose to be. It isn't just dad's/men doing this and teaching this. Giving anyone a safeplace to be honest and not riduculed only helps.
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