Protecting yourself from CPS?

[bluedaisy]

I've been researching vaccines for the past several months and will most likely not give any vaccines to my child, or possibly 1 or 2 when she is much older.

One thing that scares me almost as much as vaccines is all the stories I've come across in my research of child protection services getting involved with parents who don't vax or kids who have had a vax reaction and the parents are falsely accused.

the thought of my child being taken away from me over vax issues is very frightening...is this kind of thing common? Is there anything I can do to protect myself from being targeted by CPS? I've found a family dr who seems to be open to non-vaxing, so I don't expect to get any problems from my dr.

[Gitti]

Vaccines are NOT a law. They are only mandated for day care or schools.

CPS can not do anything about it. They must have other reasons to come to your home. Their visit can never be based solely on the issue of vaccines.

If you and your dh agree on the issue of vaccines, you will not have problems. The problems usually come in when there is a divorce and one partner want to use the issue of vaccines to hurt the other partner. Then the court generally sides with the parent who wants to vaccinate.

You also don't have to go to any wbv. There is not law about that either.

My own grandsons hardly ever go and one of them has not been to any doctor in over 10 years. He is just so darn healthy since he was no longer vaccinated.

[Purple Cat]

Religious objections are pretty iron-clad. You have a constitutionally protected right to religious freedom. If avoiding vaccines is part of your religious beliefs, then you would be well-protected against CPS allegations that you are medically neglecting your child by failing to vaccinate. I think you open yourself up more to charges of medical neglect, an example of which is failure to vaccinate, if you give reasons like autism-risk, etc. as why you aren't vaccinating. Vaccines are just very emotionally charged topics in pediatrics.

I think you also protect yourself if you do well-baby visits and make sure that you seek regular medical care for your child.

I have zero concerns about CPS involvement because I don't vaccinate.

[Tari Mithrandir]

Religious objections are pretty iron-clad.

They don't seem to be anymore, and that scares me. Here in NJ and in NY it seems they now believe they have the right to determine who's religious exemption "counts" and in "sincere belief" and who they can disregard. And yes, they are getting away with it from what I have seen/heard.
It is also extremely difficult to gain any medical exemptions here.
I have worried about CPS and Medicaid since deciding to go non-vax. It seems nowadays they want to take your kids away for anything, especially if you thwart "the powers that be". But yes, I think (and hope) they would need something aside from just non-vax to be able to come into your life.

[Deborah]

Vaxing on command doesn't protect your from CPS. If you vaccinate and your infant has certain types of bad reactions you'll be blamed (not the vaccines) and accused of shaking your baby.

Other opportunities involving vaccination--in cases of odd chronic illness stuff parents are accused of munchausen by proxy--and weird chronic illness problems certainly can be launched by vaccination reactions.

Finally, look at the way the parents of children with autism are being treated. They mostly vaccinated their children just as they were told. Their kids got sick. Now they are labeled as anti-vaccine, they can't get insurance coverage for autism treatments, they can't get adequate therapy programs from the schools...

Vaccinating is only the smooth path as long as absolutely nothing goes wrong. Once there is a deviation the situation can turn to total crap really fast.

I agree that the vaccine laws in NJ and NY suck. And NJ laws have sucked for a long time. When I was a child we lived in NJ for a few months. My father was working in Patterson. We weren't allowed to attend school because we weren't vaxed so we finally moved over the border into NY and lived in Suffern and then in Spring Valley and my father commuted. This would have been in 1958 I think.

[tanyalynn]

Many states have laws and/or CPS policies that explicitly state that non-vaccination is not, by itself, sufficient cause for CPS to investigate. Check your state and see what type of precedents they have, maybe the answer will be good.

[grisandole]

What state are you in? Like the pp stated, many states will not even open an investigation based solely on vax status. I've lived in three states and not had issues, and was a foster parent in one of them (AZ) Vax was not an issue at all. I would make sure you have an understanding doctor, that should give you some comfort. Good luck!

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Tari Mithrandir

They don't seem to be anymore, and that scares me. Here in NJ and in NY it seems they now believe they have the right to determine who's religious exemption "counts" and in "sincere belief" and who they can disregard. And yes, they are getting away with it from what I have seen/heard.

Only because no one has brought the case to court. NJ coercions would not stand up if someone tested that imo.

[bluedaisy]

Thanks for the responses...it's good to know that not vaxing is not enough to gain the attention of CPS.

We live in VA - I'm so glad we're not in NJ or NY! Our baby will most likely be on medicaid and we are on WIC, but if we run into any problems with those programs we would probably just drop them and take the financial hit.

[Tari Mithrandir]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

Thanks for the responses...it's good to know that not vaxing is not enough to gain the attention of CPS.

We live in VA - I'm so glad we're not in NJ or NY! Our baby will most likely be on medicaid and we are on WIC, but if we run into any problems with those programs we would probably just drop them and take the financial hit.

Ditto

[mamadelbosque]

For what its worth we were on WIC for a year after DS was born (went off it cause I just didn't like the food that we were geting), and are still ALL of us on medicaid. And my DS has never been vaxed, an hasn't been to the doc since last jan - and zero problems. So, I doubt you'll have any either

[grisandole]

I was on state insurance and WIC for a time in AZ without any problems. It shouldn't be an issue at all, there are a bunch of threads about WIC and "needing" proof of vaxes (you don't need them).

[mammal_mama]

Hi, I haven't read the whole thread -- but thought I'd share that we were recently hotlined and had a visit from a social worker. She did ask the name of our children's doctor, which we gave, and I was (inwardly) kind of concerned that our doctor (who disagreed with us not vaxing) might say something that could prolong our case (though our doctor's always been pretty okay apart from disagreeing with us about that).

The worker didn't even ask us about vaccination -- just wondered about their medical care.

Anyhow, within 4 weeks of the social worker visit, we got a letter stating that no case was being opened, and that it was determined at the assessment that no services were needed.

So, at least in Missouri, I don't think not vaxing can be made into a CPS issue.

[purplepaisleymama]

Our family was investigated by DCF 6 years ago in RI, and I was very honest with the worker that we had, I said that we were not vaccinating. I told her about our oldest child who had a reaction to vax when he was 15 months old and she understood why we were concerned. We were exonerated and she sent our letter of unfounded charges a few weeks after the visit.
I always make sure that we answer the questions about our children's vax status truthfully, I will not lie or evade the truth in these types of situations because if later they ask and I have to change the answer they will mistrust the rest of my answers.
The only doctor who has ever threatened us was an infectious disease specialist who was a complete moron, she tried to convince us to stay and talk with her about the tetanus vax and she was horribly misinformed about the disease and the way it is contracted. We were so happy to tell her goodbye!
I won't say that if the social worker has some other issue to investigate and they are pro-vax that it wouldn't be an issue but I have never seen it as the sole issue for an investigation.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by bluedaisy

Thanks for the responses...it's good to know that not vaxing is not enough to gain the attention of CPS.

We live in VA - I'm so glad we're not in NJ or NY! Our baby will most likely be on medicaid and we are on WIC, but if we run into any problems with those programs we would probably just drop them and take the financial hit.

We use those programs and haven't had any trouble with not vaccinating.

[angelpie545]

I think that to arm yourself with information is also a good way to protect yourself. Know the laws that CPS has to follow, know that vaccination statutes in your state, and take your kids to regular visits with the pediatrician. Yes, some would rather not do WBV, and I understand that, but it does show a paper trail of good health and could potentially save yourself a lot of harassing from the state if CPS is called.

[Peony]

For years I chose not to have any kind of paper trail, and I do keep one now. We have never been reported to CPS, but DD2 has an extensive health history as a result from VPD as an infant. DD1 was unvaxed and had a conformed case of pertussis, then infant DD2 got it, and was very ill.... I'm not one that lives in fear of CPS, I know my rights, but I also know how much easier everything would be if I could prove medical care despite not vaxing.

[claddaghmom]

There's not much you can do to keep CPS out of your life or to alleviate the suffering while they are in your life. If you are a perfect parent and you do follow the "system" guidelines.

But, if you're wondering about actual issues and not just harrassment, there's nothing they can legally do. Or if they tried, it would be very very hard.

Most of the horror stories are situations that never made it to court. So CPS may have won the day, or at least succeeded in making your life miserable for a period of time, but that doesn't mean they were in the right.

DH and I both have medical exemptions from vaccines, but unfortunately, that doesn't automatically carry over to a baby. So we would basically have to vaccinate her and get the reactions recorded. : My plan of action is to just establish a good relationship w/ a FP and keep good medical records.