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Please help me think of strategies for our five year old's HUGE temper tantrums!  

post #1 of 22
10/20/08 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 
My little guy is such a sweetie, but he's got Mama's emotions, they run very strong and when he's upset he just doesn't know how to control himself. And the temper tantrums are driving both dh and myself crazy and we need some help!

I work with him about his emotions lots, about talking about his frustration/anger/sadness, about breathing, calming down, ect. It very rarely works and he can't calm down without my help. Sending him to his room makes it worse, and he truly seems like he can't control himself rather than he's trying to manipulate us into giving him something or whatnot most of the time.

Frequently when I try to get him to calm down he gets more mad "I WANT TO CRY!". I always let him know that crying and being upset is perfectly ok, but jumping up and down, stomping his feet, screaming, yelling, throwing himself to the floor type behavior is not ok. I'm very willing to comfort him, to talk about what he's upset about (even if its something I've told him he can't have or whatnot), but arg! Its so frustrating!

I've been googling, but most of the suggestions I've found we've tried and they don't work (from very gentle parenting tips of being there and comforting, to sending him to his room... which we still do on occasion when we're going to loose our cool with him).

Its not linked to him being hungry or tired because it happens so randomly! And its not a negative cry for attention, this weekend we spent tons of time with him, doing lots of fun activities together, going out together, and he still had some huge whoppers of fits.

Any ideas?
post #2 of 22
10/21/08 at 11:34am
My 5-year old has huge meltdowns when he melts, so I feel for you.

One thing that sometimes works when we are at home is to suggest that he goes to his room and listens to his cds. He has some books on cd that he really loves and the repetition of the stories soothes him, plus he has to calm down a little to be able to hear them.

Otherwise, it's hit or miss here and usually I end up cuddling with him or ignoring him and making him find a way out of it.
post #3 of 22
10/21/08 at 6:08pm
We've talked to a child psychologist about our DD's issues and gleaned some help from her. I'm happy to pass it along.

The only thing that has worked consistently for us with our 6yo DD (who had a LOT of huge tantrums during age 5) was to tell her that she needed to go to her room to "calm down" and that after she was calm we would talk about it. We would tell her in a calm moment that if/when she started a tantrum, we would not speak to her until she went to her room and calmed down.

This only worked because when she was in the middle of a tantrum, she would try and talk to us and just get madder and madder and madder... She really *needed* to be away from us to calm down.

Now... getting a large 5yo to her room without the adults getting hurt was another issue. So, we had to use the threat of consequences to get her there. Sorry, if that doesn't work with your discipline approach, but it was the only way.

So, when the tantrum started, we would say (very quickly before it escalated), "I cannot speak to you until you are calm. Please go to your room and calm down."

If she did not go, we'd say, "DD, you must go to your room to calm down. I will count to three and you need to be heading to your room. 1...2...3..."

If she still did not go, we'd say, "DD, you must go now, or you will have a consequence for not going." No need to say exactly what the consequence would be - natural, manufactured - it didn't matter - that was usually enough to get her moving to her room.

And the real trick for you as the parent is to NOT talk too much during this exchange. Keep your voice calm, raise it if you have to over the screaming, but do not scream yourself. Do not talk about the issue, or the problem, or whatever caused the tantrum. The goal is to get the child to her room to calm down, and do it with as minimal social interaction as possible.

Remember, going to the room is NOT the consequence. Going to another room is just a way for the child to be alone and calm down. You are not "sending them to their room" or "putting them in the corner". You are getting them to a quiet place to calm themselves.

Within 10 minutes, our DD would be calm and then we could talk about what happened and why, and how to prevent it from happening again. And THIS is a very important step - don't let this go. You have to teach the child how to deal with whatever upset them.

I know some people aren't big on rewards and sticker charts - but frankly - I find they sometimes work just to get the desired behavior going and settled into the child's mind. That being said - one thing that we've taught our DD is that when she starts to get upset, frustrated, about something, she is to call "Mommy, HELP!" before losing it. You can do this with a sticker chart. So that each time he manages to say, "Mommy, HELP!" before losing it he gets a sticker, and so many stickers means a reward of some kind. Again, I know some people don't like charts, but seriously when you have a very ingrained habit in a child, sometimes doing this can just help them work on breaking the habit, KWIM? I'm not suggesting that you have to do sticker charts for the rest of his life.
post #4 of 22
10/21/08 at 6:20pm
I don't think tantrums are a habit, and I don't think they're anything to be controlled or stopped. I had tantrums until I was 8. My daughter still has them, though much less often now. Some kids just have a harder time handling emotions, but they all get it eventually. Just like some kids learn to walk later. I just let her have her tantrum, make sure she's safe, don't take it personally, and give her lots of love after it's over.
post #5 of 22
10/21/08 at 10:10pm
I think tantrums happen for a lot of reasons - emotional, tired, to manipulate a situation (I'm not using the word in a negative way - kids by nature are just prone to want things their way and they are very smart about learning social behavior, what buttons to push, etc.).

Our 4 yo has them. He doesn't like going to his room to calm down - he gets scared. So, we simply ask him to calm down and when he has calmed down we'll talk. Sometimes we ask him to sit in his chair in the living room to calm down (and he likes to look at his books when he sits in the chair). I think the main thing that works for him is that we don't have a conversation about what upset him until he has calmed down - if we do try and talk about it then he just gets more upset. Sounds like a common theme among the 4 and 5 crowd.

We also talk about what is appropriate. It has taken a lot of reminders and it will take many more. But, we've pretty much gotten out of the tantrums in public phase. We ask him to tell us what is upsetting him before he goes ballistic (sp?). It is improving.

Also, we talk about how it feels to be out of control and that we know if it difficult to control strong emotions. We tell him we know he can do it and can make wise choices. I think reminding him that we believe in his ability to find his way through life means a lot to him.

I hope you find a solution to help. Hugs to you all.
post #6 of 22
10/22/08 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks all

We've tried having him go to his room to settle down, but he just can't really settle down without help, and sending him to be alone just makes it way way worse. Plus I run a daycare and the napping room is next to his room and his screaming and shouting in his room will wake up the other children as well.

I'm not opposed to rewards, that's worked well for him in the past, but he really doesn't seem to be able to control these tantrums/his emotional response. Or rather he doesn't seem to be able to control about 90% of them. So I just don't know that rewards would work out...
post #7 of 22
10/22/08 at 12:07pm
If he truly isn't able to control himself and you aren't seeing an improvement consider taking him to the doctor to make sure it isn't something physical. It may really be something beyond his control.

Have you ever considered a food allergy? I know when my 4yo has anything with red food dye in it he gets extra hyper and has a hard time controlling himself. It's like his emotions are on full alert times 2. The good thing is that we've pointed it out to him and he can feel the difference in himself. That has helped him watch out for red food dye himself (like when he is with his grandparents, aunt, etc. and we can't be there to check everything).

Food allergies are common in our families. I have a wheat intolerance and totally zone out whenever I eat wheat - I know why I feel that way but I can't do much about it because it feels like I'm walking around in a fog.

Best wishes!
post #8 of 22
10/22/08 at 12:21pm
I am going to recommend a book, I have just started reading it, but I am really resonating with the authors and their approach. I actually, don't have children with behavioral issues, I can count on one hand the number of tantrums my three have had in their entire lives combined, but the advice given in this book is really feeling helpful for me personally, helping me understand my reactions to my children. Basically, the premise of the book is children act out not because they are bad, not because they wish to manipulate, but out of stress based fear. They act they way they do because subconsciously they see it as a matter of survival. Consequences don't work, logic doesn't work. My DS's school is in the process of implementing this system into and a group of moms are going to start a weekly discussion group lead by one of the moms who is a therapist working with troubled kids who utilizes Beyond Consequences in her practice with great success. I am so pumped!

Beyond Consequences, Logic and Control, but Heather T Forbes and B. Bryan Post

I also recommend watching the videos on the website.
post #9 of 22
10/22/08 at 10:33pm
I didn't want to jump right into the "going to the doctor" idea, but since a PP mentioned, I'll jump in now.

My oldest DD had huge tantrums, outbursts, for no apparent reason for years. After her preschool asked us to take her out because they couldn't handle her anymore, we had several people say to us that she might have Aspergers Syndrome. We never heard of it, and so we did go to a Doc, and yes, she was diagnosed with it. Since then, we've been able to address her needs in a very specific way that works for her. She is doing really, really well now. We have her on the gluten-free, casein-free diet, she has an IEP at school - she is really well taken care of, and we know how to handle her. Probably a combination of the structure in her life and the diet and the social skills training she gets at school is what is making her do better.

I'm not saying your son has Aspergers - all I'm saying is to be open to ideas regarding behaviorial diagnosis, diet, sensory overload, etc. Don't just try to reduce the tantrums - see if you can get at the underlining issues.

There also could be some aspect of you having this daycare in your home that is really bugging him...

I also suggest doing a log of his tantrums - you say they are not linked to being hungry, tired or needing attention. Well, then something else is going on. Keep a log and note time of day of the tantrum, inside or outside, weather, how many kids were at the daycare that day, what triggered it, how long it lasted, how he acted out during the tantrum, and how it was resolved. What you are trying to do is to find ANY hint of a pattern.

Also keep a log of his eating and sleeping - you might find a pattern there.

Keeping logs is a great way to come to a doctor's office. We kept a log about our DD for about a month before our appointment with the child psychologist. It was very helpful at that meeting, because we had concrete words describing her behavior.
post #10 of 22
10/23/08 at 1:02am
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the ideas everyone. I have wondered if perhaps he might have something going on, he's very very emotional, really smart (he reads at a 5th grade level, knows some basic multiplication plus addition and subtraction), but has a hard time socializing with other children. If he does have something going on then I think I did/do too, I had the hardest time as a kiddo and was so much like him.

A log is a great idea! I'll definately get something together to see. I was wondering how I could see if it was a food allergy, doh, I bet that a log would help out with that too! I think I'll give that a shot. And I'll look into the book, thank you
post #11 of 22
10/23/08 at 1:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarMama View Post
Thank you for the ideas everyone. I have wondered if perhaps he might have something going on, he's very very emotional, really smart (he reads at a 5th grade level, knows some basic multiplication plus addition and subtraction), but has a hard time socializing with other children.
OMG - this is so classic Aspergers Syndrome! I really encourage you to start the log and see what happens. And in the meantime, start researching Aspergers online.
post #12 of 22
10/23/08 at 10:45am
Thread Starter 
Well geez I figured I'd have time to make up a little chart to log stuff in before he had another fit, but wow at 11pm last night he woke up thirsty and threw a giant fit because I wouldn't give him sprite! Gah! Just shaking and crying so loud he was having a hard time catching his breath. I swear the quickest way to get him to stop is to make him go be alone for 5 minutes (while he flips out MORE), and then going to him to sooth him, to *not* talk about whatever happened right then but just physically be there for him. I'm so tired (and yay sick) today.
post #13 of 22
10/23/08 at 1:52pm
I don't have any advice - as I am in the same boat as you. I am also very emotional and my son is too - he's 3. The highs and lows with him are crazy - the very long tantrums for no apparent reasons - inability to calm down. Sometimes the tantrums last 30+ minutes and he'll scream and cry until he is hoarse. He also does not socialize well and would rather look at a book then climb on the slides with other kids. I have noticed he is incredibly in tune to my feelings and no matter how hard I try to mask them it's like he feels them from me.

Just wanted to send you a ((((hug)))) cause I know how exhausting it is.
post #14 of 22
10/23/08 at 3:25pm
Quick response, need to be out the door...

Does he have problems with transitions, leaving places, being done with activites, maybe start giving him warnings beforehand that what he is doing now is going to end and that a new something is going to happen...

I'm thinking in lines of my son leaving the playground, total meltdown if I don't give him warning, Going into a store, total meltdown if he doesn't know beforehand that that will be our next stop, or with dinner, if you just call him to the table, meltdown, if you let him know 5 minutes before, he's fine to stop what he's doing and come eat...
post #15 of 22
10/23/08 at 4:29pm
Thread Starter 
Sometimes transistions are difficult, sometimes not, and he's growing out of that, except if we have to stop something he's loving on of course! I do give him countdowns and he knows how to set the kitchen timer, so we use that a lot during the day and it helps a ton. Thanks for the idea

He *does* want to socialize, he wants friends so so badly! He gets along very well with adults, he loves my close girlfriends and likes talking to them on the phone and hanging out with them. With other kids it seems that his upset button gets pressed 10 times more than when he's not, and he has no clue that trying to act like an adult to get them to do stuff/play with him is not going to work, no matter how much I explain it to him and model other behavior.

I'm looking at the aspergers symptoms and some he fits very well (like being obsessed wth a subject, he is OBSESSED with the ABC's). But he's not rigid with routines at all. He's intensely sensitive to noise. He's clutzy but has fine handwriting, draws very well, does fine manipulations easily (like playing with dominos), ect.
post #16 of 22
10/24/08 at 2:16am
Hey Lisa, I know you from another site ages ago!

Anyhow, my oldest son has some special needs, and he has a really hard time regulating his emotions. I have just started reading a book by the author of Raising Your Spirited Child. Her name is Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, and the book is called Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles. I would never have bought this book on my own, as it seems to imply slightly different behaviour, you know? But my mum got it, and it has been a godsend! I have noticed a difference after a week, and it's just incredible. It's totally gentle, and it's based on connecting with your child, as opposed to disconnecting strategies like sending them away. I very highly recommend it.
post #17 of 22
10/24/08 at 4:11am
Hi Lisa,

Getting along better with adults than children is also another sign of Aspergers Syndrome, as well as the idea that he *does* want to make friends even though he has trouble with it. There are many indicators, and not all AS kids have every single one, or they might have some to a greater or lesser degree.

Here are some links I found for you, if you have time in your busy life!

http://www.med.yale.edu/chldstdy/aut...diagnosis.html

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/tc...drome-symptoms

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/asp...ndrome/DS00551
post #18 of 22
10/24/08 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamasaurus View Post
We've talked to a child psychologist about our DD's issues and gleaned some help from her. I'm happy to pass it along.

The only thing that has worked consistently for us with our 6yo DD (who had a LOT of huge tantrums during age 5) was to tell her that she needed to go to her room to "calm down" and that after she was calm we would talk about it. We would tell her in a calm moment that if/when she started a tantrum, we would not speak to her until she went to her room and calmed down.

This only worked because when she was in the middle of a tantrum, she would try and talk to us and just get madder and madder and madder... She really *needed* to be away from us to calm down.

Now... getting a large 5yo to her room without the adults getting hurt was another issue. So, we had to use the threat of consequences to get her there. Sorry, if that doesn't work with your discipline approach, but it was the only way.

So, when the tantrum started, we would say (very quickly before it escalated), "I cannot speak to you until you are calm. Please go to your room and calm down."

If she did not go, we'd say, "DD, you must go to your room to calm down. I will count to three and you need to be heading to your room. 1...2...3..."

If she still did not go, we'd say, "DD, you must go now, or you will have a consequence for not going." No need to say exactly what the consequence would be - natural, manufactured - it didn't matter - that was usually enough to get her moving to her room.

And the real trick for you as the parent is to NOT talk too much during this exchange. Keep your voice calm, raise it if you have to over the screaming, but do not scream yourself. Do not talk about the issue, or the problem, or whatever caused the tantrum. The goal is to get the child to her room to calm down, and do it with as minimal social interaction as possible.

Remember, going to the room is NOT the consequence. Going to another room is just a way for the child to be alone and calm down. You are not "sending them to their room" or "putting them in the corner". You are getting them to a quiet place to calm themselves.

Within 10 minutes, our DD would be calm and then we could talk about what happened and why, and how to prevent it from happening again. And THIS is a very important step - don't let this go. You have to teach the child how to deal with whatever upset them.
Mamasaurus... THANK you for posting this. This is almost exactly what we do (well, try to do) when our DD loses control. It helps to know your psychologist thinks its an acceptable method. I never wanted to use punishment/separation/time out, and really believe in gentle discipline But our daughter is extremely bright, sensitive, and perceptive, and is prone to huge tantrums, and trying to reason, talk, or consensual parent your way through when she's trying to hurt herself, others, scream or break things doesn't work, and only serves to escalate the tantrum, and our own ire. You can't parent effectively while being angry or irritated. Simply talking to her or hugging her or saying I understand... none of it is accepted by her and only serves to make her more angry during a tantrum, it can be very frustrating to stay within the boundaries of a parenting philosophy that you've read about and tried to apply... when you have a child that the philosophy doesn't fit, all the time. Its been through years of trying different things with DD that DH & I have come up with the separation to calm down idea. It works for us. So thanks for sharing. I hope that it helps other parents too.
post #19 of 22
10/24/08 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Mamasaurus... THANK you for posting this. This is almost exactly what we do (well, try to do) when our DD loses control. It helps to know your psychologist thinks its an acceptable method. I never wanted to use punishment/separation/time out, and really believe in gentle discipline But our daughter is extremely bright, sensitive, and perceptive, and is prone to huge tantrums, and trying to reason, talk, or consensual parent your way through when she's trying to hurt herself, others, scream or break things doesn't work, and only serves to escalate the tantrum, and our own ire. You can't parent effectively while being angry or irritated. Simply talking to her or hugging her or saying I understand... none of it is accepted by her and only serves to make her more angry during a tantrum, it can be very frustrating to stay within the boundaries of a parenting philosophy that you've read about and tried to apply... when you have a child that the philosophy doesn't fit, all the time. Its been through years of trying different things with DD that DH & I have come up with the separation to calm down idea. It works for us. So thanks for sharing. I hope that it helps other parents too.
Just a question for you: Does your child, in spite of your warnings about consequences, ever refuse to comply? Just say no I'm not going to my room? How about defiance? So if she does refuse, then what are the consequences? This is something we have been struggling with at our house again lately. And I'll tell you, physically picking up and carrying a five year old thrashing kicking kid up the stairs to her room, is not great. Anyone have thoughts on this?

BTW, I just ordered Beyond Consequences. I'm looking at the Mom's Retreat on her website and it looks awesome. It's not far from where I live. Wish it wasn't so pricey.
post #20 of 22
10/24/08 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ks Mama View Post
Mamasaurus... THANK you for posting this. This is almost exactly what we do (well, try to do) when our DD loses control. It helps to know your psychologist thinks its an acceptable method. I never wanted to use punishment/separation/time out, and really believe in gentle discipline But our daughter is extremely bright, sensitive, and perceptive, and is prone to huge tantrums, and trying to reason, talk, or consensual parent your way through when she's trying to hurt herself, others, scream or break things doesn't work, and only serves to escalate the tantrum, and our own ire. You can't parent effectively while being angry or irritated. Simply talking to her or hugging her or saying I understand... none of it is accepted by her and only serves to make her more angry during a tantrum, it can be very frustrating to stay within the boundaries of a parenting philosophy that you've read about and tried to apply... when you have a child that the philosophy doesn't fit, all the time. Its been through years of trying different things with DD that DH & I have come up with the separation to calm down idea. It works for us. So thanks for sharing. I hope that it helps other parents too.
You are welcome.

And to clarify to others - the way I view this method is definitely not as a punishment. Yes, it is a separation, but only because my or DH's presence will magnify the tantrum and make it worse. We don't view this as a time out, either. We see it as a way to allow her to calm down on her own, in her own time.

As adults, we get angry about things. I've been so mad that I've broken dishes, smashed things - it happens sometimes. Of course, we don't want to get to that point, so we work at regulating ourselves and knowing our triggers. But when I've been really, REALLY mad, I have learned to have enough sense to go be alone and smash something or hit a few pillows or something.

I think that is what we are teaching DD by doing this - that it's ok to be mad, it's even ok to be REALLY mad! But if you are going to be really, really mad, then you need to go be alone so you don't hurt anyone else either verbally or physically. You need to go somewhere, yell, scream, cry, get it all out of your system in a place where no one else can get hurt, and then you are ready to rejoin the group or family.

It's teaching a child about self-discipline and self-regulation - NOT a punishment.

In using this method, too - when your child is calm and things are going fine, you can talk about how your body *feels* when you start to get mad - how you might start to feel hot, your hands sweat, you tense up in the shoulders, your fists clench - you teach the child to know the signs that he/she is getting angry. And then you teach them that when you start to feel this, that it's time to go be alone for a few minutes, take a few deep breaths and calm down. This is obviously getting to a deeper level with the child and it's something that takes time for them to internalize.

The thing about having them go to their room to calm down is something that can be done "in the moment" when things are escalating out of control and you need to quickly diffuse the situation.

The two ideas go hand in hand and you do them together:

1. What to do in the moment
2. Teaching the child an underlying philosophy about handling anger

Because as much as we want to teach them self-discipline, sometimes we just need an IMMEDIATE WAY to respond to an explosive situation.
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