Why is FF "protected"

[kriket]

another thread on mothering mentioned that there was a FF "warning" poster in a state office, one mama mentioned that they would probably have to take it down because they were getting nasty emails.

Why does this happen? I can't seem to form this without sounding harsh, but, most people FF by choice. I am not judging people that already FF, you don't know whats in that bottle! It could be BM! I also understand that there are very legit reasons to FF. I accept and acknowledges that some mothers or children CANNOT BF and thank goodness that there is an alternative to starvation for them!

However, shouldn't people who haven't made a decision yet be steered away from FFing?

This is a total honest question, I am trying to see both sides here.

What do you think?

[Sagesgirl]

Honestly? I think we've got two things going on here. One, there are some people who really are that clueless, and get insulted to be shown something they "know" isn't true. Two, and I think this one accounts for more of it, I think that a LOT of formula feeders know on at least some level that they've made a poor choice, and they resent being reminded.

It's just one more facet of our society in which the freedom to choose only applies to one of the options. If we try to educate, we are painted as attacking. A warning poster for formula feeding, however true the content thereon, is a lot more aggressive than educating, and so the same folks who consider education an attack on freedom of choice are likely to consider a warning tantamount to a Cruise missile strike.

[MadameXCupcake]

I think people just don't want to believe the truth. I posted a question on yahoo answers asking if the mothers that CHOSE to FF knew what was in the formula or if they just assumed it was amazing healthy stuff. Needless to say mothers were very hostile and rude. No one answered my question just yelled at me, and it was a completely serious question! I really wondered if mothers assumed it was safe and trusted the advertising.

If I understood your post right, I'm GLAD that office has a FF warning poster!

[kriket]

Originally Posted by MadameXCupcake

Needless to say mothers were very hostile and rude. No one answered my question just yelled at me, and it was a completely serious question!

I have had similar experiences. Its very sad, I know that being overy BFing motivated hurts the cause, but the more I look at BF vs FF I can't see why anyone would choose to FF unless it's just lack of desire to educate yourself. Yet there are sooo many. Then to top it off, I see mamas here and in the news every day that are heckled for BFing.

I told a LC at my MWs office when she asked what I though about FF and BFing I told her I thought FFing was like powered card board and she laughed. I know I OTed my own topic, but it made me chuckle when she chuckled!

[stockingup99]

Lazyness is a good reason to BF. I cling to the they just don't know any better idea. Unfortunately the amount of advertising in almost all new mom to be magazines is probably the real reason.

[1littlebit]

yeah man ff out of laziness is just nuts. having done both i have discovered i am far to lazy to ff and the next baby i have wont even know what the heck a bottle is. (though i think i may just be to lazy to bottle feed i hate bottles and formula and i hate pumping but as it happens i am not only lazy i am cheap so therefore i pump as much as possible)

[greene_mama]

Originally Posted by stockingup99

Lazyness is a good reason to BF. I cling to the they just don't know any better idea. Unfortunately the amount of advertising in almost all new mom to be magazines is probably the real reason.

:

I have always thought that the lazy would love BF'ing-- me included. No bottles to wash, stuff to mix up, no getting out of bed in the middle of the night, no working extra hours to pay for all that formula...

That said, I recently met a woman who is planning to have a baby in the next couple of years, and when the topic of BF'ing came up, she said there was no way she could do it...it grossed her out or something. She just seemed to think it was disgusting. This was early in my lactivist days (DD was only a few weeks old), so I really didn't know how to respond and probably bombarded her with too much info and even said something to the effect of "once you get pregnant and do your research, you'll probably change your mind." It was just unfathomable to me, and still is. Maybe there's the ignorance factor, but I think there's also the "ick" factor for some, like her, who were FF as babies and "turned out fine." (This she said right before we started discussing our serious eczema problems.

[Frootloop]

I may be way off base, but in my honest opinion, I feel like the more information that gets out there about the benefits of breastfeeding, the more that formula feeders are feeling threatened and attacked in their choices. In my own experience lately, it's pretty much impossible for me to even MENTION the word "breastfeeding" around formula feeders (simply by choice/personal preference), whether it's in person or online, without someone getting defensive. They immediately feel attacked and I have absolutely NO clue whatsoever how to deal with it.

I formula fed. I had issues with my supply and nipple confusion.. all because I got some seriously bad advice from my pediatrician and ob/gyn. I do NOT want that to happen to other mamas! I would love to help educate others, but I feel as though I can't even talk about it without someone having an absolute cow about it.

Maybe they feel like we're judging them..? I have no clue. I have nothing against formula feeders. Of course, I wish that they would give breastfeeding a chance for their baby's sake, but I definitely don't think of them as horrible parents.

We all know that many ff mamas believe that breastfeeding is extremely difficult.. we've heard all sorts of crazy stuff from.. "omg, you can never leave the house!" to "I'm just too lazy to do it" (Umm, hello? Bottle feeding is a real pain in the a$$ sometimes!).

Is it possible that too many FFs are holding nursing mamas on too high of a pedestal.. as though it's just insane that anyone could do all of that (simply perceived high level of difficulty)?
Could it be that they feel that the nursing mamas themselves feel that they're better mamas and automatically feel judged as though they were less (which I don't feel they are)?

Personally, even though I ended up FF, I KNEW breastfeeding was best. I can't imagine feeling offended by anyone stating the obvious, whether it came from a poster or a doctor or what.

[JamesMama]

IME most people who FF by choice honestly believe that formula is JUST AS GOOD as breastmilk and that mothers comfort/preference/etc should come first because the baby doesn't care/it doesn't matter. Yeah sure, breastmilk is BEST...but really look at formula nowadays, it's super close. And besides, I was ff'ed and I'm FINE/smart/healthy/etc.

Thats the line I get from most people.

My family is FULL of FF'ers by choice. Not one single person in mine or DH's family even ATTEMPTED to breastfeed. Not once. They 'didn't feel comfortable with it' 'it wasn't their thing' their dr said formula is fine, their nurse friend doesn't bf, they have to go back to work....etc.

Even the fact that my son is 3 years old and has been sick 4 or 5 times in his whole life. He can read quite a few words, knows all his colors/shapes/letters/numbers (clear up to 30) by sight...is any indicator of the positives of breastfeeding.

And FF is the norm in our society and it's taboo to attack the social norm. Attacking non vax'ers? Fair game. Attacking homeschoolers? Fair game. Attacking/belittling cd'ers/uc'ers? Fair game. Attacking homebirthers? Fair game. But attack the social norm and you're bound to have people getting their heckles up.

[cognito]

I don't think our office has the posters, but I'll be ther on the 3rd so I'll check it out.

I know for me ipersonally it's hard knowing that formula is not ideal (or even close to it), but I do have to work & can't keep enough supply for a baby with no ability to latch. You've heard the pumping struggles. Formula really is the only option. I honestly do feel weird about donated milk & I'm pretty sure medicaid wouldn't cover it. It would take a couple thousand dollars to feed him for a month from a milk bank. That's more than my gross income.

If I were a SAHM, then we might have had a better chance of coping with the palate problem. I only FF by necessity. I'd much rather BF. It would be so much nicer than being attached to a machine, finding nipple that he can latch on & making sure we have enough formula or bottle liners. It's a real PITA. Washing bottles & pumping parts is a real pain too.

I do think there should be posters though & maybe pamphlets for moms-to-be so they know before making a final choice.

[Sagesgirl]

"once you get pregnant and do your research, you'll probably change your mind."

And I think this is our fatal assumption. We research, some of us near-obsessively. I do not, to be quite honest, believe that any right-minded person who actually has done research is going to choose to formula feed. They might wind up doing so out of necessity, but choose to? Er, no. My experience has been that since, as JamesMama said, FF feeding is the societal norm, most people who do it default to it without even thinking, much less researching.

[annie_noah]

People that smoke used to complain violently about anti-smoking campaigns and the images and messages of what smoking does to you that is required on cigarette packages (at least in Canada, don't know what is required in the US).

But despite the complaints of smokers, the campaign continued. And now even smokers seem to accept that it is necessary to educate people about the dangers of smoking. They may not like it, and they may be addicted and unable to stop smoking, but most of them I think recognize the need to try to keep others from starting.

I think we need to keep spreading the message that BF is best and we need to focus our message on those that have not yet decided, rather than on those that either already chose formula or that ended up giving formula because they couldn't BF or because they lacked the support required for an effective BF relationship. As long as we keep doing that, the level of resistance to the message will go down over time.

[subrosa]

Maybe I can shed some light on this for some of you. I formula fed my daughter after a very difficult time initiating breastfeeding. I do not think anything actually made breastfeeding impossible, but I had a terrible time: unwanted c/s, little support, and bad LC advice. I ended up throwing in the towel because it hurt so much that I started to dread my daughter's waking, and, in my mental state at the time, I thought that it was better to love her and formula feed than to fear her and breastfeed.

I made a bad decision. It hurts me to think about it. I can't say what I might have done differently, because I was all kinds of low after she was born, and I just didn't have much fight left in me. But seeing those kinds of PSAs hurts. Oh, it hurts so much. It feels like someone's stabbing me in the heart. There is an ocean of grief and guilt inside me because of my failure to breastfeed. I would never get angry about or ask to have a poster like that removed, but it would be painful to look at it. And I think that guilt and grief can very easily manifest themselves as anger or defensiveness. I'm sure that's nott he case for everyone, but that's how it was for me.

[kriket]

Originally Posted by annie_noah

People that smoke used to complain violently about anti-smoking campaigns and the images and messages of what smoking does to you that is required on cigarette packages (at least in Canada, don't know what is required in the US).

I smoked for many years in the US and Canada. US packages have a 1''x3" text warning that saies some random "smoking is bad for your health" quote from the surgeon general.
Canadians have a full back of the pack picture of a limp cigarette that reads "SMOKING WILL MAKE YOU INFERTILE" I always got a kick out of the Canadian ads. They are 'true' but its pretty shock-factor.

anyways, if we put a picture on the back of a can of formula with a sick baby that read "Formula isn't as good as breastmilk" People would riot.

I think that a lot of people don't do research about BM, they just assume that formula would be fine, and they could make their husband/BF feed the baby and not be "tied down" thats the biggest excuse I hear.

[SpiderMum]

Originally Posted by Sagesgirl

And I think this is our fatal assumption. We research, some of us near-obsessively.

This is so true. I read every book and article I could get my hands on...but the mainstream mom? Even if they do the research...are they looking in the right places? Most mainstream parenting books will at least have a blurb about breastfeeding, but often those books give bad advice or too little information. The mainstream mom may feel like she has done the research...and that "research" may lead her to think that formula feeding is just as good or at least isn't bad. And the pediatrician problem is another huge factor. Most people trust doctors...and if doctor says so, it must be so.

Obvious people are hearing the "breast is best" message because 70% of mothers try breastfeeding....which brings me to my next point....

Originally Posted by Frootloop

We all know that many ff mamas believe that breastfeeding is extremely difficult.. we've heard all sorts of crazy stuff from.. "omg, you can never leave the house!"

Breastfeeding is extremely difficult...or it can be. My DD is almost 4 weeks old and I would not have made it this far if I hadn't done so much research, if I hadn't already had contacts at LLL, and if I hadn't had the support of my DH (who also had done his research). Even with all that...I've still struggled. I ended up crying every night for the first 2 weeks because it was just that hard...and I didn't even have latch issues, or suck problems, or tongue tie, supply issues, or reflux, food sensitives, or any other challenges that breastfeeding mothers can face. And I wouldn't have even been aware of all those challenges if I hadn't done the non-mainstream research that I did! And yeah...it can feel like you can never leave the house again. I don't have a problem NIP, but it's still difficult to go out when the babe is having a growth spurt (something most are not aware of...I know I wasn't till it happened and I looked it up on kellymom) and is cluster feeding. I could feed her in public yes...but I had to get her to stop eating long enough to put her in the carseat and go somewhere. That was an issue.

All I had to deal with was a sleepy baby. She slept too much, didn't eat enough, so she slept even more and ate even less...so when she was dropping weight I knew her pediatrician was doing to tell me I needed to supplement...but I had already taken action, contacted a friend with LLL, and had a plan. The pediatrician seemed surprised at my confidence. Had I been a mainstream mom who hadn't done so much research and didn't mistrust doctors I would have just done what I was told and we all know how that would have most likely ended.

So 70% give it a shot...the majority fail. Then those people see a poster "attacking" formula feeding and they get defensive. It's understandable...though I don't think that changes the truth. Breast is best and we shouldn't tip-toe around people's feelings....but the problem is most mainstream sources do. The truth is then written off and the ravings of pushy "boob nazis".

[1littlebit]

i also think it depends on when you catch someone. if your talking to someone who's already ff they mat not want to hear it b/c there is nothing you can do about it. but then its still good to educate b/c how else will people learn? its sort of a catch 22.

q2Discovering MDC was a painful experience for me. I had already stopped bfing b/c i thought i had to on my medicine. It has hard to read all of this and see all of you bfing so happily. i really really wanted that. i also thought i needed to be on my medication to be a good mom. i didn't know enough to realize that i would be happier bfing off meds then ff on them. i need to believe that formula is not going to lead to my sons imminent demise. My next child will be breastfed exclusively. i relactated but i dont get much and its really freaking hard. I am the mom who tries to avoid ff in public. and if asked i will, in no uncertain terms, explain that i work very hard to give my son any amt of bm and i would love to give them some information on bfing but i simply cannot reccomend ff. someone actually told me i cant say anything about bfing b/c i dont do it. i almost cried.

[annettemarie]

Let's keep the Lactivism guidelines in mind when posting please:

The Lactivism forum is not intended to be a place where MDCers to bash mothers who are formula feeding. It is understandable that lactivists become frustrated over the mainstream formula feeding culture. Criticizing ideas, campaigns, and actions that negatively impact breastfeeding are all acceptable forms of lactivism. Name calling, criticizing individuals, or attacking women who choose to formula feed as a group are not.

Thank you!

[NYCVeg]

Originally Posted by greene_mama

:

I have always thought that the lazy would love BF'ing-- me included. No bottles to wash, stuff to mix up, no getting out of bed in the middle of the night, no working extra hours to pay for all that formula...

I see this a lot on MDC, and sometimes it simply isn't true. There are those of who had to work our a$$es off to bf--who cried through every feeding for months, who spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on LCs searching for answers, who had so many problems on top of each other that it was almost impossible to separate and fix them, who endured physical pain far worse than anything they had experienced for weeks or months on end. Some of us (or our children) have physical conditions that make it so bfing will ALWAYS be uncomfortable or painful, even when we are doing everything "right." The "work" of preparing bottles is NOTHING compared to the work I put in to bf for 19 months--if dd had ever taken a bottle (of expressed milk--she refused), I think I would have cried for joy. Bfing caused so much stress, so much pain, so much unhappiness; it took a huge toll on my relationship with my dd--I didn't realize how much until the day she weaned (her choice; I spent about 5 weeks trying to get her back on the breast, to no avail). Easy? Nope. Not even a little.

I think the problem with selling bfing as "easy" or good for lazy people, is that it gives such a ready excuse to quit at the first problem (it's not easy for me, and I'm lazy, so I'll just pop open this can of formula instead). There are many people for whom formula is not a financial hardship, for whom there is no "getting out of bed" in the middle of the night (either b/c they sleep train or just use the ready-to-use formula at night), for whom loading a few extra bottles into the dishwasher isn't really a hardship. I've never understood why so many people think formula feeding is so difficult. I know many, many people who have said how difficult bfing was; I don't know a single ffer who ever said it was difficult.

For me, the selling point of bfing is that it is healthiest, and ffing, statistically, is harmful to babies' health. And I think that's precisely what irritates people about the ffing posters. Many people don't want to be reminded that their choices are NOT the necessarily the best ones for their children. People were all up in arms when NYC started requiring fast food chains to post nutritional info--they didn't WANT to know what was going into their bodies. People don't want to watch videos on factory farming. They would rather pop cholesterol-lowering pills than seriously interrogate their dietary choices. In short, people don't want to be "educated", because education means they have to take responsibility for harmful choices.

[knowerofnada]

I totally have to agree with the post above. In some aspects, like financial, and time spent mixing formula, I guess it's easier to BF.....but overall, when looking at the big picture, it would have been SO much easier for me to FF my kids. I made it a priority though. But it was, and still is, very, very challenging.

[Shahbazin]

Yes, this is a touchy subject, & it does have to do with going against "societal norms"; I think that without education, people won't know any different, though.

And I agree with NYCVeg, that sometimes bf'ing isn't the easiest; it worked great for my DD#1 (at least, until I got pregnant when she was 5 months old, nursed through the pregnancy & had to supplement in addition anyhow) - then DD#2 had feeding issues, & by the end of her 5th month, I ended up going to EP'ing. At 15 months, 10 of them pumping (lactating continuously for 2 1/2 years now), I'm ready to wean, but I've stuck with it this long because I know how important it is to BF. If people haven't obsessively researched baby stuff, beyond the most readily available info, how do they know that formula is not "just like breastmilk" as is the common thought?

Hence the importance of advertising the realities of formula- I do think the tobacco ad campaign analogy is interesting.