Minimum schooling age getting lower and lower

[minkajane]

This is a little bit of a vent. I was thinking last week about how kids used to start school at 6 or 7. Then it went to 5. Now kids are expected to go to preschool at 3 or 4 and people keep going on and on about how very important preschool is. It crossed my mind that eventually daycare/preschool is going to be "mandatory" just like public school is starting at the age of 1 or 2. That idea scared the hell out of me. Not two days after I had this thought, I saw an editorial in the local paper about how education MUST start at birth. It was written by a former teacher. She talked about how by the time they get to kindergarten, they've already learned so many bad habits and it's too late for some of them to become good readers or even good citizens.

This freaks me out so much. It feels like we're heading to the point of having kids raised by the government entirely. Mandatory boarding schools even. I know that's probably a little melodramatic, but government education just keeps expanding. From the ages of 3 to 18, most kids are in school. Then they go to college and that's at least 4 more years (even longer now to get a bachelor's degree - it takes most people 5 or 6 years). Used to be with a diploma, you could get a decent job and take care of your family. Now you have to have a bachelor's to make decent money. How much longer before you have to have a master's degree to be able to support your family on one paycheck? It just seems like the push for the government to be in control is getting younger and lasting longer so that they can make sure you're a "good citizen" and be the kind of person they want you to be. KWIM?

[LianneM]

Yikes.

I agree, it's so much so early and fast. Kids need to play!

My DH never went to preschool and actually started school a year later than most of the other kids his age (Sept bday) b/c he "wasn't ready" according to his mom. He graduated college with almost a 4.0 as an engineer so obviously it isn't important for all kids

I really hope the talk about early childhood programs being available doesn't lead to mandating them

[Amylcd]

Preschool is not important, in my opinion. I don't personally know any children who have went (we don't even have one in our town). These kids are doing perfectly fine in school.

[elizawill]

i agree. let me climb on my soapbox too!

i absolutely HATE that preschool is so popular. it is rediculous that students entering kindergarten are expected to actually know things beforehand. imo, grade k should be where they learn the alphabet & have play centers, etc....but NOOOO - kids do that stuff at age 1 & 2 now. i'm only 37, & i am floored how my kindergarten days resemble the same thing as a toddler preschool program now. i also find it rediculous that people feel the need to pressure me about what my children know (or don't know)...and what's worse is when i find myself actually caring what they think, ugh...i get so mad at myself!!!! especially with my son...he's only 4!! he isn't even in school at all. he would not be in public school, nor do i consider him to be homeschooled at this point. yet...i have honestly had family and friends ask questions about what he knows. why do they care???? he's 4!

anyway. preach it sista!

[moominmamma]

Public school in Ontario Canada starts at age 3 years 9 months for kids born at the end of December. Boggles the mind. It's called Junior Kindergarten (JK) and is the beginning of regular school, with a adult:child ratio of up to 1 in 20. On a Canadian parenting message board I frequent the education forum is full of posts from moms whose 3- and 4-year-olds cry and don't want to go to school, and of responses that reassure them that this is normal. Yeah, "normal" in that disturbed reality, I don't doubt it.

Miranda

[birdie22]

Originally Posted by minkajane

She talked about how by the time they get to kindergarten, they've already learned so many bad habits and it's too late for some of them to become good readers or even good citizens.

Because if they can't share or sit still or *READ* by five, then they are lost forever. Attitudes like this just burn my cheese.:

I think it's important to have quality programs available for young children who need them, but the leap to making these programs mandatory is just ludicrous.

[mommy68]

I agree, it is early. But I think it's probably a positive thing for a lot of parents that have to work and wouldn't have to pay for daycare if their kids could start school earlier.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I agree, it is early. But I think it's probably a positive thing for a lot of parents that have to work and wouldn't have to pay for daycare if their kids could start school earlier.

I agree that it is the working parents who will benefit most from school starting at an earlier age.

However, I'm 42 and my dh's mother got my hubby in school a whole year earlier because she was tired of him hanging around the house all day. Jeez. And she wonders why I won't leave her my kids in my will.

[MommyTorf]

devil's advocate:

I work in a failing public school where some of the third graders STILL can't read! Going to school early is an ABSOLUTE blessing for some children. It's better that they are in a HeadStart classroom from age 3 instead of at home watching TV all day.

It's too bad that more children don't have the kind of parents that float around here at MDC.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I strongly feel kids spend to much time in school. Even though mandatory age for school is usually 5-6 with some states being 7-8 many parents dont know this and send at 5 thinking they HAVE to.

I was talking to mom last night about how the being socialized thing is made into such a big deal that I just dont buy. The only socialization I had and 90% of my generation had is with cousins or siblings.

I think it is fine to send them as long as they want to go but I have heard so many stories about forcing a child to go because they "need" the socialization.

[milkybean]

It was written by a former teacher. She talked about how by the time they get to kindergarten, they've already learned so many bad habits and it's too late for some of them to become good readers or even good citizens.

OK that cracks me up. She needs to follow her logic.

If we used to start later, then SHE started later. Which means that SHE might not be a good citizen or reader, b/c she started later.

I mean, all of us, our parents, their grandparents...are we all just lumps sitting around? Oh no, wait, there have been amazing advances made by people who didn't start school until they were 6 or 7, OR who might not have had official schooling at all. My grandmother, born in 1903, was a traveling schoolteacher when she was single. Rode her horse to students' homes in rural Montana and taught them for awhile, then moved on to other students. But that was a very strong generation of people (hers and those that she taught), but with barely any schooling.

The logic of all of this is bewildering.

Originally Posted by MommyTorf

I work in a failing public school where some of the third graders STILL can't read! Going to school early is an ABSOLUTE blessing for some children. It's better that they are in a HeadStart classroom from age 3 instead of at home watching TV all day.

Weeeeellllll. They might not have been in preschool or K, but they HAVE been in formal school for 3 years, right? So if they aren't learning to read yet, I'm not totally sure the home situations should get all the blame... YOu don't get the blame either, I'm sure you're very good at whatever you do in the school, but there is *something* missing that even being in school from 1st to 3rd that isn't teaching them to read, and just being there earlier might not solve that.

[mamabain]

Having worked for an early intervention program (Healthy Families) I think it will benefit most of us if more children get exposed to things like talking to our infants, toddlers, taking children out of pumpkin seats, having floor time, reading, puzzles, coloring, toys that require imagination, etc. Things that we on this board do as a matter of course but other families without education think are too difficult or not important.

You can't imagine how many families there are where children spend most of the day in the carseat, never spoken to, where there are no books at all, where there are no toys like puzzles, blocks, dolls, imaginative play, etc. These are the families and children that would benefit from FREE preschools so that their children get the stimulation needed to be able to learn to read, learn math, learn music at an appropriate age.

I would disagree with it being REQUIRED. Absolutely. But offering it free to those who would like it I feel would be beneficial to our society as a whole.

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by MommyTorf

devil's advocate:

I work in a failing public school where some of the third graders STILL can't read! Going to school early is an ABSOLUTE blessing for some children.

If three three years of public schooling has failed to teach kids to read, then the solution is clearly to give them more of what has failed.

It was my understanding that any benefits of HeadStart programs had worn off by 6th grade at the latest -- most by 3rd grade.

Miranda

[ALittleBitCrunchy]

I am so puzzled by this push for earlier and earlier. I actually have family members that are worried that my son isn't reading well enough yet. He's 6. I think being an emerging reader is fantastic at that age and would have been comfortable with him learning later, as well. People have this expectation that kids will learn to read in K, anymore. I remember learning the Letter People in 1st grade and being excited when they got to S because he was in my name! K was a way to get kids used to school, and it was optional and partial days. Then it became important and became a full day. Now Pre-K is there to 'get kids ready' for K. It boggles the mind. My idea of K is play-oriented learning, so pre-K is simply play time And now 4K isn't enough, because 3K really teaches the basics and you wouldn't want your child to be behind in 4K - oh horror of horrors. *rolling eyes* And I know people that have kids in 2K. 2K!!! I want to plead, "They are 2...just let them have fun!" but it's all about 'centers' and 'activities' and 'letters' and 'skills' and they all think I'm the crazy one.

I just want kids to have a few years to be kids and to have fun. They have 12 years of education, so I'm in no hurry to get them started. Of course, that's why I homeschool.

As to the situations about working parents and parents with limited interactions with kids...well, I don't see why education would be a solution. Free daycare? Great! I would love to be able to take my kids somewhere fun and interesting and play-filled for free. Teach them letters there? No thanks.

[melissabb]

I live in Ontario, Canada. Starting in 2010 all kids will attend Junior Kindergarten (must be four years old by December of the registration year so that means there will be kids who might be only three years old starting JK) on a FULL TIME basis. This means that kids who are three or four years old will be going to school each and every day from 9 am to 330pm.

So, now kids here will be going to school full-time from the age of 3/4 until they are 17/18.

Sorry, but I think we have gone down a very dangerous path shipping off our children to institutions of formal education so young and for so long. I think we will realize in 20 or so years that "our" desire to provide more academics will have detrimental affects on society. We will see a whole generation of children come adults who conform to government without question and feel inadequate due to lack of parental/caregiver bonding and individual attention they lacked at such a young age.

The sad thing is that with so many children in daycare now days most parents see this as a great thing. Basically they see it as one less year that they have to pay for daycare. Sadly, daycare and school are VERY different. There are different expectations and rules in place.

I currently provide home daycare. When a child is tired or just needs some alone time they are free to cuddle up or take some time alone. This just will not happen in a school setting. There is gov't curriculum that must be followed regardless of what that one child might need at any particular time during the day.

I worry about what kind of society we are creating.

[koru]

That is crazy about the mandatory school age in Canada. I had no idea!

What irks me about the initial statement is that somehow kids won't be "good citizens." Ack. That's one thing that scares me the most about public schools. (is that too political? )

[moominmamma]

Originally Posted by koru

That is crazy about the mandatory school age in Canada.

Just to clarify ... only one out of ten provinces / three territories has an extra year of "Junior KG" tacked on at the beginning. Most of Canada does not.

Miranda

[melissabb]

Originally Posted by koru

That is crazy about the mandatory school age in Canada. I had no idea!

What irks me about the initial statement is that somehow kids won't be "good citizens." Ack. That's one thing that scares me the most about public schools. (is that too political? )

I should clarify that this is in Ontario and not in all of Canada. And, the education act still clarifies a child does not "have" to attend compulsory school until the age of six.

However, few people know their rights and think kids have to go to school for JK. And, like I said, they also see it as free daycare.

[Dillpicklechip]

OMG Melissa, full time school for 3 year olds? That makes me want to cry...those poor little kids who just want to be with their mamas!

We live in Ontario and somehow I hadn't heard of this. I feel this is a ridiculous amount of stress to place on 3 year olds. My son is currently 3 (born at the very end of December!) and even if I wasn't planning to homeschool him, there is no way I would put him in school even for half days. He's just too young, and not ready for school in many ways. But I can't even begin to imagine putting him in for a full day!

This entire trend is really upsetting to me. Why, oh why can't kids just be allowed to be kids anymore?

Oh this reminds me, on a local website I saw a posting for a workshop which, call me crazy, I find pretty darn disturbing:

The Windsor-Essex County Health Unit is offering a free workshop called "Helping Preschoolers Develop Coping Skills for Life" on Monday, November 17th. This event takes place at Sobeys, Community Centre, 7654 Tecumseh Road East. The workshop begins at 7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m. Help preschoolers develop the resiliency skills they need to bounce back from the stresses of life.

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with that?

[Dar]

Moved from Learning at Home and Beyond to Learning at School...

Dar