Tithing when you are in debt

[cristina47454]

How does this work? DH and I have almost $75,000 in credit card debt, we have little to no savings and he is currently out of work. When he was consulting this summer, he was making pretty good money and felt that he should be tithing 10% of his paycheck. We've been in the hole for so long that i feel like we should pay our bills and be working on a savings plan before we start tithing. We come from different religious backgrounds ( I was brought up loosely Catholic, he was brought up Southern Baptist), and that is part of the "problem". We aren't on the same page. He says that when you don't have anything, that's the most important time to give...I think that might even be scriptural to a certain degree. But it makes me hyperventilate!! Help!

[grniys]

Originally Posted by cristina47454

How does this work? DH and I have almost $75,000 in credit card debt, we have little to no savings and he is currently out of work. When he was consulting this summer, he was making pretty good money and felt that he should be tithing 10% of his paycheck. We've been in the hole for so long that i feel like we should pay our bills and be working on a savings plan before we start tithing. We come from different religious backgrounds ( I was brought up loosely Catholic, he was brought up Southern Baptist), and that is part of the "problem". We aren't on the same page. He says that when you don't have anything, that's the most important time to give...I think that might even be scriptural to a certain degree. But it makes me hyperventilate!! Help!

Here's the thing... you can interpret the bible many different ways. So it's really a matter of interpretation. There's no right or wrong answer. And that's pretty frustrating. And yes, he's right, it is scriptural, but there are other scriptures you can look at about debt and such.

Here's my own personal take on it... I am not going to go into poverty to tithe. However, I do feel an obligation to tithe. So, when I don't have the money, I believe my tithe can be, at least in part, service. I can volunteer and help and donate my time and other skills. I don't feel it needs to be 100% financial if I can't afford it. But on the other hand, I also feel if I'm not giving any finances to the church then I shouldn't be going out to eat after church and splurging every week, kwim?

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, because everyone interprets the bible differently, and that's ok.

Perhaps you and your dh can compromise? Maybe do 5% offering instead of 10% (if you're more comfortable with that amount) and find ways to do services for your church to make up the rest? Like help out in the nursery, or go in one day a week to help the church secretary or something? Just a few ideas.

[swimswamswum]

I was raised Catholic too and the logic there is that you should pay for your family stuff first and then give to the church once that's all taken care of.

We now go to a liberal protestant church and a recent sermon was just about this subject. The pastor basically said that tithing can mean a lot of things- money, time, talents, etc.. Money is great and of course a church would love it if everyone could give 10% of more but for a lot of people (especially young families with children and a lot of debt) 10% isn't realistic. Perhaps when you're older and have fewer expenses and are debt free, you can give more.

If I was in your position I would work on getting rid of that massive debt load before I put 10% of my income into the church. I would also make some major life changes regarding spending and my life style and make sure that I never got in that kind of debt again. If you're currently short on money but rich in time, do some volunteer work and think of that as tithing. Do what works for you and your family and remember that it doesn't have to be all about money. You can give lots of other things too, my opinion is that it's about sacrificing and seeing God in everyone around you and giving and treating everyone accordingly. FWIW, I do not and never have taken the bible literally, so my answer is probably really different than someone who comes from a more stringent religious background.

[BetsyS]

I was raised Southern Baptist, and we tithe, even in debt.

I look at it as we are free to spend 90% of our paycheck. Period. End of story. It's just not negotiable to me.

That said, we've always been able to pay at least the minimums on our debt. We've never been in a place where we couldn't pay minimums because of tithing. So, it's always been pretty easy for me to look at it this way. I'm not so sure how my "non-negotiable" would be if we literally couldn't pay minimums.

[jeca]

I think in hard times you should give what you can. It may not be 10% but something is better than nothing.

[Purple*Lotus]

Originally Posted by grniys

Here's the thing... you can interpret the bible many different ways. So it's really a matter of interpretation. There's no right or wrong answer. And that's pretty frustrating. And yes, he's right, it is scriptural, but there are other scriptures you can look at about debt and such.

Here's my own personal take on it... I am not going to go into poverty to tithe. However, I do feel an obligation to tithe. So, when I don't have the money, I believe my tithe can be, at least in part, service. I can volunteer and help and donate my time and other skills. I don't feel it needs to be 100% financial if I can't afford it. But on the other hand, I also feel if I'm not giving any finances to the church then I shouldn't be going out to eat after church and splurging every week, kwim?

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, because everyone interprets the bible differently, and that's ok.

Perhaps you and your dh can compromise? Maybe do 5% offering instead of 10% (if you're more comfortable with that amount) and find ways to do services for your church to make up the rest? Like help out in the nursery, or go in one day a week to help the church secretary or something? Just a few ideas.

For the most part, I do agree totally with what you said.

I go back and forth between tithing 10% and tithing smaller amounts. We don't have as much debt as you, but we have $10,000 in medical bills that I would like to pay off ASAP. So sometimes I give of my time instead. One thing I do is volunteer to work with the kids. I also serve on boards at the church that helps in policy making. And I make prayer shawls for my church to distribute. There are many ways to help the church. A big one is cleaning it. Even a church with a full time janitor like ours needs extra help cleaning. Just something to think about

[txdancer]

Tithing is a choice you are making to put giving to God before spending your paycheck on other things. You have to choose to not spend that money on other things though, and spending money you don't have, aka debt, means that you chose to not tithe in the future. In your situation, I would:

1. Stop going into debt. I would cut everything possible including tv, cells, phone, internet, going out to eat, shopping etc. You CAN'T afford these things if you have that level of credit card debt.

2. I would also cut up the credit cards if you haven't already. Everything you need needs to be paid for in cash.

3. Start using your skills and service for the benefit of your church. If it makes you feel better about not tithing than you can keep track about how much you should have been tithing every month, and once your debt is gone start paying the church back.

4. Start a debt snowball, and get rid of all your debt.

You have already made the coice not to tithe financially, because you pre-spent that money.

[Logan's Mom]

I understand wanting to pay the CC debt, that is a big monkey on your back. I think what works for your family is what is best. Only you can decide what that is and how you interpret the bible and spirituality.

[mommaof5]

MALACHI CHAPTER 3: 10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I just think this scripture says it all. Pay your tithes first and God will have so many blessings you won't have room enough to receive them all. That includes opportunities to pay off debt that you could never have imagined. 5 years ago my husband and I made a decision to get rid of 30,000 dollars of credit card debt. Right after the decision was made my husbands pay at work was cut and I have always been a stay home mom. We did get out of debt on a modest salary. We never could have done it without the Lord. He opened up so many doors for us. I truly believe it is because we always payed our tithing. You have to look at it as you get 90% and he only asks for 10%. My husband and I always joke about even if our church came out and said we can all stop paying tithing we still would because we need the blessings that much!:

[ChattyCat]

I would suggest taking a hard look at all of your bills that must be paid monthly. All of your debts (mortgages, cars, personal loans, and credit cards). Figure out the minimum that you MUST pay. Then look at other expenses that MUST be paid (gas, insurance, groceries, utilities, etc). See how much you have leftover. You will need to put some of this toward your debt, or you will never pay it off. If you have more than 10% leftover, then I would suggest tithing, and use all of the rest to pay your debt, since your church is so important to you. If you don't have 10% left, figure out how much of your leftover money can safely go to the church, while you pay down debt with the rest. Either way, no more spending money that you don't have.

[Tradd]

My take on it (I'm an Orthodox Christian and I tithe, also give enormously of my time).

I've known way too many folks, of assorted denominations who said they couldn't afford to tithe, yet spent all sorts on money on meals out, expensive clothes, vacations, cars, etc.

You have to do what is right for your family, but if you decide not to tithe because you "can't afford it," yet are still doing lots of eating out, cable, etc., I think you need to take another look at your spending.

[chinaKat]

If I were drowning in debt I'd donate time and/or goods but not money. Charity comes in many forms.

Organized religion will likely manage just fine without ten percent of your salary until you get your head above water again. You, possibly not so much.

[tree-hugger]

Originally Posted by txdancer

Tithing is a choice you are making to put giving to God before spending your paycheck on other things. You have to choose to not spend that money on other things though, and spending money you don't have, aka debt, means that you chose to not tithe in the future. In your situation, I would:

1. Stop going into debt. I would cut everything possible including tv, cells, phone, internet, going out to eat, shopping etc. You CAN'T afford these things if you have that level of credit card debt.

2. I would also cut up the credit cards if you haven't already. Everything you need needs to be paid for in cash.

3. Start using your skills and service for the benefit of your church. If it makes you feel better about not tithing than you can keep track about how much you should have been tithing every month, and once your debt is gone start paying the church back.

4. Start a debt snowball, and get rid of all your debt.

You have already made the coice not to tithe financially, because you pre-spent that money.

:

[sunnylady303]

It's a hard line to walk. Some of you have read my previous post. We are in dire financial straits right now due to medical problems. I'm also a pastor. I not only have a spiritual obligation to tithe, but a professional one. How can I preach to my church about tithing when I don't?
Having said that, we're not tithing right now and haven't since my daughter got sick. As we get back on track, we will subtract bills that we need to live - house, car, electric, water - and then tithe on the rest. Hopefully soon we will be back to full tithing.
I absolutely believe and would preach that tithing is a guideline. And tithing lets us off easy. Everything we have belongs to God and we should live that way. Part of our money goes back to the church - that's good. But part of financial stewardship is treating all of it like it is God's. Does God want us to buy what is cheapest but has abused God's children or God's earth? That's a part of it too. If I am tithing, but have to go shop at Walmart and buy sweatshop clothes because I'm tithing, is that faithful? I think it's a lot more complicated than a simple 10%. That's a goal, but I see too many people who think "oh, I give my 10% and I'm done." God requires our all.
Also I too get annoyed when I see people who say they can't afford to tithe and then I see their three cars, their boat, their satellite dish (I am NOT saying the OP is one of these) and it's hard for me not to feel judgemental. I think it's a matter of priority. I think God wants to be most important. I don't think God wants our families to be neglected because of tithing.
These are just things to think about. Sorry to preach. It's an occupational hazard. If you were my parishioner and came to me, I would tell you to do the best you could. I would tell you to give of your time because in many cases the church needs workers, people with time to give even more than money. I would also tell you to let go of the guilt. Give all you can and give it faithfully. God (in my opinion) is not as concerned with the legalese as with the spirit in which what you have is given and received. Like I said, 10% is a guideline.
Just my $.02. Good luck. It's a tough issue.

[~Megan~]

The way I was taught and that makes sense to me is that you don't give 10% off the top, you give 10% of whatever is extra after your needs are met.

Perhaps looks up the scriptures and see what makes sense to you.

Another idea is if you can't give money perhaps you can give time and volunteer for your church.

[1growingsprout]

IMO when paying down debt everything is negotiable and I mean EVERYTHING. That includes donations and tithing. One of the things people dont understand is your interest on the loans and credit cards accumulates daily, not paying as much as you can, will cost you thousands in the long run. I have taugh financial classes, I helped families budget, DH has done the same in his career and while donations to any organization may feel like an obligation, if its not paying a bill or getting you out of debt, then its something you cant afford to do.
Just think how much faster you can be out of debt if you put that 10% toward your bills?? all that interest you wont be paying to the bank. It makes no financial sense to donate or spend any extra money when there are debts with interest to be paid.

By all means donate your time, help out at the church, donate in another way but financially you can not afford to donate money.

[gurumama]

If you're broke and in debt and want to donate 10% of something to your church, donate 10% of your time. 16.8 hours/week of volunteer time is way, way more valuable to many congregations than 10% of salary.

Keep track of how much money you WOULD have tithed as you climb out of debt. When you're out of debt, give 10%. Gradually give more until you've caught up to the "tithe debt" you accrued if tithing a strict 10% of salary is important to you.

[velochic]

I don't want to start a Bible debate here, but I spent 5 long years studying the Bible (not in a Bible school, but in formal regular classes with a scholar). The idea of tithing is in the Old Testament. Christians are "redeemed from the curse of the law" (of the Israelites). The only mention of tithing is from Paul who said for each to give according to his abilities (or means, I can't remember which, but in this context it means the same). Nowhere in the NT does it state 10%. That was the old law. If you are a Christian, you are not under the old law. Your church wants you to believe it's 10% because that's best for them. Look it up, if you're not sure I'm correct.

I would think that, for example, it would be much better to contribute some ingredients and time to include an elderly person in your meal planning during the winter or some such thing. I just can't believe that God would want his children to go hungry so that the church can get a new organ. I also can't believe that God is keeping books. JMHO. I'm no longer in the church so I'm not even sure I should be stating my opinion. (Oh well, too late. )

ETA: O.K. A quick google search gave me the right verse. It's ICorinthians 16:1-2 "Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. "

[wildmonkeys]

It seems to me that no matter how broke you are you can tithe 10% and then deal with living on the rest.

OTH - if you are in debt you OWE people money. You can't tithe money that isn't yours, right? Until you pay off DEBT you are giving away money that isn't really YOURS (so you are taking it from somebody else or stealing....) Might there be scripture on that as well?????

[A&A]

God doesn't need the money as badly as you do.