GD & Pets (and kids)

[New_Natural_Mom]

How do GD parents handle pet discipline? I have some mischievous dogs....I say "no" and "bad dog" a lot. A LOT. (They bark A LOT & like to eat diapers.) I am concerned how being exposed to this will affect my son in the future. Will he absorb it? Will he mimic it?

[happyhippimama]

Good luck. I hope you find a balance.

[Girl In The Fire]

I finally bought a choke chain collar and a 40 foot lead

Please tell me you are not leaving your dog outside on a choke chain. If you are it is a good way to kill your dog.

Will address other issues after I have had some coffee...


ETA: You should probably ask this over in the pet section, you will get answers from more dog knowledgeable people.

[mamamarley]

We have a 17-m-o dd and a 4.5-y-o female German shepherd dog (along with an assortment of cats ranging from 13-y-o to 6-m-o)... and this is a challenge in our house. I highly, highly recommend The Dog Whisperer tv show (Cesar Milan is his name I think), his basic MO is calm assertiveness - if you KNOW you are in charge and simply expect to be obeyed and never accept less, it's amazing how dogs fall into line. This is a pretty gentle way to handle them, too - you'll never see Cesar shout at a dog or kick or hit it, he is all about body language and eye contact.

We borrow whole seasons of TDW from our local library, but if you want to catch it on tv I think it's on the National Geographic Channel maybe.

ETA: In reference to how my dd interacts with the dog, she calls her when she wants to play with her (dog is Moxie, but dd says "Boooooocccckkkk-eeeeee", sooooo cute!), knows the "Come!" and "Go lay down!" and "Enough!" commands, snuggles the dog and kisses her, plays fetch with her, tries to participate in walking the dog on the leash (and because we've used Cesar's methods to train the dog to not pull, this is actually possible! very cute to see tiny dd walking my GSD!)... In fact, she advocates on Moxie's behalf when she knows Moxie really wants to go outside for a walk and I'm busy with something else or otherwise procrastinating - she'll point to the leash and say "Bok! Bok!" which either means Mox or Walk, not sure which.

dogs + kids = great

[SophieAnn]

Yes, please avoid "no" and especially "bad dog" as much as possible.

Instead of scolding bad behaviors, praise good behaviors.

Also, it sounds like some obedience classes could be very beneficial. Look for a beginner or intermediate class to do with your dog. You'll only be able to take one at a time, but it will really help. Look for a positive-reinforcement based training class.

The most useful thing we ever learned was in puppy or beginner class - the command "leave it". Oh, and "drop it" comes in handy too if you aren't quick enough to say "leave it".

Try to think of your dogs as infants.

If there is something you don't want them getting into (i.e. diapers), you need to make sure that those things are out of reach.

If they have done something wrong but you didn't catch them in the act, never scold them. They won't associate you being angry with the thing they did a half hour (or 2 minutes) ago. For example, you come home to find diapers (or kleenex, or garbage) strewn all over you house. The dogs have been getting into everything while you were gone! If you yell at them, they have no way of associating the yelling with the garbage-chewing.

A better example I think is running off. Dog runs off, you call it back (or chase) and once you have the dog back in the house (or on leash) you yell at the dog for running away. Dog associates the yelling with coming to you, not with running away (that was too long ago). Next time the dog might not come.

One other thing: exercise. Are the dogs getting enough exercise? Destructive/rambunctious behavior is a common sign of boredom. What breed(s) are they? What was the breed meant to do (work, herd, hunt...??). This will help you determine their exercise needs. Try a 20-30 minute walk daily (more or less depending on breed - some breeds I'd say 45min.). It can really help. Oops I now see they're Pomeranian. Well, then 15-20 minutes may be enough to see a noticeable difference.

I'm sorry you're having a rough time. It's a huge amount of work to have a baby and 2 dogs.

Please never never chain your dog outside. Risk of strangulation comes to mind first and foremost. This link has more information about the risks and harms of chaining a dog (CAUTION: GRAPHIC).
http://www.dogsdeservebetter.com/articles.html

[happyhippimama]

delete

[SophieAnn]

deleted because I'm responding to nothing.

[mommabear207]

i would work on your dog's behavior now as much as possible. and as others mentioned the dog whisperer may be worth looking into. i've seen a few and its seems to be that a few steps can be taken that will drastically change your dogs behavior-and all in a calm manner. i also have a dog and thankfully he is a great dog (except for barking when he thinks someone is here he stops if i'm out there but if we're in the bedroom its like an alarm i need to go shut off lol) but now i tell him to shush as your kids will pick it up and mimic. i hear shush alot from ds now lol! so its important not to teach dc any negative behaviors- plus they will take them to the next level too and you don't want to deal with dc hitting your dog!

[Girl In The Fire]

Looks like others have this covered but I just want to add a couple more things...

A really good book I would recommend is When Pigs Fly http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly-.../dp/1929242441

As to the OP recommending a choke chain, please do not use a choke chain on your dog. A choke chain can have a place in training a dog if used by someone who is experienced and knowledgeable. In the average persons hands they are used incorrectly and they are nothing more than a cruel and violent torture device. Choke chains can and do cause physical damage to a dogs throat and neck and dogs dying because they get hung up on their choke chains is not a rare event.

[Staciemao]

I would like to "Yeah That" to the PP who suggested positive reinforcement.

Also, our dogs get very nervous if we give them the run of the house while we're not home, and that nervousness leads to bad behavior. So both of them (a five year old lab and a 6 month old poodle) are put in kennels while we are gone. We give them a rawhide and a snuggly toy, and they are much, much happier.

[New_Natural_Mom]

Just to make it clear, we don't use choke chains. We don't even use collars...just harnesses with retractable leashes for walks. The dogs are crated during the day. Here are my issues: 1. the barking..during the day...ALL night long...it's maddening & I can't sleep through it. I used to sleep with ear plugs, but now that we co-sleep I won't do that. I cannot continue to function with this prolonged lack of sleep. 2. The peeing/pooping in the house. It is unsanitary. They are let in & out a lot - just choose to go in the house, no matter what. 3. The discipline. The dogs are gonna hear no a lot. I don't want to keep doing that, but it is what it is. They respond. I don't want DS exposed to it.

I have many other reasons why I just feel like I can't care for 2 dogs & DS, WOH FT, & go to school. It is just too much. I want to re-home them. I think it would be better for me & them. DH doesn't want to & wanted me to post here to find out what other GD parents do. So thanks for the responses.

[whalemilk]

Uh, lol, sorry but dogs need simple, clear discipline. Like "NO." and "LEAVE IT." They don't comprehend the delicate negotiations of "GD." I think as far as influencing the kid, being kind to the dog matters more than the content of the commands you use on it. But then again, I'm one of those horrible mothers who uses the word "no," multiple times, every single day. :

[Staciemao]

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

Here are my issues: 1. the barking..during the day...ALL night long...it's maddening & I can't sleep through it. I used to sleep with ear plugs, but now that we co-sleep I won't do that. I cannot continue to function with this prolonged lack of sleep. 2. The peeing/pooping in the house. It is unsanitary. They are let in & out a lot - just choose to go in the house, no matter what.

I want to re-home them. I think it would be better for me & them. DH doesn't want to & wanted me to post here to find out what other GD parents do. So thanks for the responses.

Oy. I'm with you, mama. Good luck. This is not a GD issue...this is just a compatibility issue. I'm all for the idea that you get a dog and you keep it for its lifetime...but there are exceptions and this sounds like one of them.

[Minky]

I think dogs need some scolding. They aren't children and need a clear leader.

If you're concerned about your children picking up on the "bad dog," "naughty dog" and "NO!," couldn't you use some less negative words in the same tone of voice. Perhaps "Silly dog" or just something that's nonsense? I'm not a dog trainer, and we've rehomed our dog, but I had never thought about the potential effects on my kids of all those "NO!"s.

Another thing I've learned--don't let people flame you for letting the dog out on a lead for a while. A choke chain isn't the appropriate choice for a collar, but as long as the dog is tethered away from anything he could get himself hung up on and isn't outside 24/7, I don't see a huge issue.

Some people can't afford a fenced property and I don't think we should be made to feel guilty about that.

[SophieAnn]

Originally Posted by New_Natural_Mom

Just to make it clear, we don't use choke chains. We don't even use collars...just harnesses with retractable leashes for walks. The dogs are crated during the day. Here are my issues: 1. the barking..during the day...ALL night long...it's maddening & I can't sleep through it. I used to sleep with ear plugs, but now that we co-sleep I won't do that. I cannot continue to function with this prolonged lack of sleep. 2. The peeing/pooping in the house. It is unsanitary. They are let in & out a lot - just choose to go in the house, no matter what. 3. The discipline. The dogs are gonna hear no a lot. I don't want to keep doing that, but it is what it is. They respond. I don't want DS exposed to it.

I have many other reasons why I just feel like I can't care for 2 dogs & DS, WOH FT, & go to school. It is just too much. I want to re-home them. I think it would be better for me & them. DH doesn't want to & wanted me to post here to find out what other GD parents do. So thanks for the responses.

It sounds like you have far too much on your plate and something's gotta give. I sympathize. Perhaps if your DH is insistent that you not rehome the dogs, then he should be the one to start putting in some serious effort in training them to resolve these issues?

1) Are they crated at night? In separate rooms? I wonder if a change in their nighttime environment could help with the barking? I have no experience with barking problems so I don't have much here. I'm betting you've already tried everything imaginable.

2) Pottying in the house. I would start from square one with this - like house training a puppy. We had success doing it this way:
When they are not directly supervised they are crated. When they come out of the crate they go straight outside to potty - and huge praises and treats when they potty outside. You have to be right there to catch them the moment they go potty outside to really mark the good action. We never scolded for going potty inside, but if caught in the act, we pick them up (yes, mid-pee) and say "outside, outside" or something - said with urgency, not with anger and get them outside as quick as humanly possible. (I realize this would be extremely difficult if you are home alone with the baby & 2 dogs.)

3) As long as you are comfortable with "No", there's really not an issue with it. It can be a lot more effective to offer an alternative, however. For example, if the dog is begging at the dinner table, you could say "no" or you could say "go to your bed" and send the dog to sit quietly on their bed. If the dog is jumping up on people you could say "no" or you could say "sit". Commanding an alternative, more desirable behavior can be very effective.

In-class training and the help of a professional trainer could really work wonders. But, all of this requires a time commitment that you don't seem to have - and you've already come to terms with that. I really think if your DH really wants to keep the dogs, he needs to be the one to commit the time to train the dogs.

An excellent book I would recommend that is great for basics (especially house training) is:
Before & After Getting Your Puppy: The Positive Approach to Raising a Happy, Healthy, and Well-Behaved Dog by Ian Dunbar

[phatchristy]

I think if you post in our pets forum (link) the specifics about the dogs, their daily routine, how old they are, the breed, the problems you are having with them you will get a lot of information on different ways to help your situation.

Dogs require a lot of care, and sometimes smaller dogs/certain breeds have specific requirements as well. People can give you information on things to try, different resources, different options.

It really sounds like you have too much on your plate. I can feel some of the frustration through your posts.