Need Quick Help! Some questions about my son's vaxes.

[Jaysfamily]

I'm not well educated on vaccines and the diseases they vaccinate for. It seems the more I read, the more confused I become. I have some questions that I need quick answers for so I can better defend our decisions at the ped. appointment in the morning.

HepB: He got all the recommended shots through age 6 months. I don't have HepB, so I don't think he needed it anyway. But since he was completely vaxed through 6 months, he's done with this series anyway, correct?


DTaP: There are 5 required doses of this vax before immunity, correct? My son had the first 3 on time and is 24 months now. Since the 4th dose is so delayed, would 4 doses by age 5 cover him(I know it's debatable on if it actually works or not), or would they still require him to have the 5 total doses? In other words, does he need the 4th dose for the first 3 to be effective? Or, if he gets the 4th dose on such a delayed schedule, then would he even need the 5th dose?


HIB and Prevnar: are these just two different choices to vaccinate against the same disease of meningitis? The descriptions of both mention meningitis. Is the sole purpose of the HIB just to lessen the chance of spreading disease to those with weaker immune systems, or to actually try to protect the child? Both of these vaccinate against bacteria rather than viruses, correct? Can the diseases be easily treated with antibiotics?


Pneumococcal: Again, the purpose seems to be to prevent meningitis. I am probably the most high risk person in the house for this disease since I am prediabetic. However, I don't see how vaccinating my son rather than myself would do any bit of good since I'm a SAHM anyway. Can't this disease be treated with antibiotics since it's bacterial anyway?


Meningococcal: Okay, now I'm frustrated! What is the point in 4 vaccines that vax against meningitis????


HepA: I'm undecided on this one. We're only high risk if we eat out at restaurants or eat prepackaged food, right? We make most everything, even sauces and broths at home.


Varicella: Seriously?



Flu: I'm considering this one, but only because my grandmother has bronchiectasis. I want my son to be able to visit his great-grandmother often, especially since she probably doesn't have much time left alive. I don't want to have to keep him away from her and everyone else for 2 weeks at a time in fear of spreading the flu to her. Otherwise, I don't think the flu is really something that needs to be so feared.



So, in all, the only vaxes I'm considering for this year are the DTaP, and maybe the flu. I'm willing to do the DTaP because he had all the other doses and they only caused a low fever. If I let him have the flu, it will not be given with the DTaP. I'm also thinking of giving him the DTaP so we don't get kicked out of the ped's practice and we need to stay with the current practice until I'm pg again. The DO we want to switch to only takes newborns, and then you can transfer siblings to him later. Since there might be a reason to get the flu vax because of a high risk member of my family, then should I just let him have the flu vax in the morning, and do the DTaP later on? I think my ped might let us get by with just one vax per visit.

[Gitti]

Do not defend yourself. Tell the ped that you are just starting to research vaccines and you need some time before you decide on any more vaccines for now.

He ought to have enough respect for you to not question you any further.

Stick to what you have decided to do. Don't let him talk you into doing any vaccines at this visit. It could very well be the one your child reacts to and then you will be the only one dealing with it. Your ped will distance himself when there is vaccine damage.

Be firm, don't let him make you feel guilty. If you need to, leave the office.

Then come back and start to research. You'll be so glad you did.

[Jaysfamily]

No, it won't buy me time. I've already canceled two well child appointments this summer because he ended up with a fever from teething. As long as I appear to be compromising by getting a shot tomorrow, then we won't be kicked out of the practice.

[Gitti]

Please don't compromise your child's health. You may forever be sorry. Yo owe it to your child to do the research. The child can not do it for himself but he deserves the best chance for a healthy future.

If you are kicked out, find a different doc. Or do what we do, we simply don't do wbv.

[MadameXCupcake]

We dont do WBV either but mostly because I think doctors are for when you are sick.

If a doctor wanted to kick us out fine we'll go somewhere else, they dont need my money then, YOU pay them for their service.

Our children come first not the happyness of a doctor.

You should try the tribe area on here and find a better Ped that is no vax friendly.

[Jaysfamily]

I really just need some answers to questions to help me in my research and discernment.

[alegna]

Just say no. don't compromise.

Staying in a practice is not a good reason to vaccinate.

-Angela

[Jaysfamily]

There are no no-vax-friendly peds in my area. Heck, my state doesn't even allow midwives, so it's a very medical-model-is-God state of mind I'm dealing with here. I think it's important to be established with a pediatrician, and not vaxing won't go over with any of them. I'm just trying to do the best I can and am confused about some of the information I'm reading, and need some answers to my questions. Really, I feel like the responses in this thread are approaching things in the same way as my pediatrician does: appealing to emotional arguments, and just trying to get me to blindly agree to do/not do something. I'm looking for facts about vaccines and these diseases that I'm having trouble finding in the research I'm doing. Whether or not he gets a shot tomorrow, I'm going to need more information than what I currently have.

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

Whether or not he gets a shot tomorrow, I'm going to need more information than what I currently have.

Which is why you should wait. All the people here are saying is that it is YOUR choice, your decision, not your doctor's. You are saying that you are just beginning to research it and look for more information, so take the time and do it. Really, you cannot just read one thing tonight and make a decision tomorrow. There is a lot to process, and you have to make the choices that feel best for your family, not because a doctor told you to vax or someone on a board told you not to.

I personally would not continue to see a doctor who threatens to dismiss patients over vaccine choices. Even the AAP has told their members not to do this. You could also look for a family physician, they often see just as many kids and are perfectly capable.

If you are looking for a good place to start your research tonight, I would start here:

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

They use information from the CDC and reputable scientific sources.

Good luck with your decision. It is hard sometimes to wade through it all, but if I were you, I would give myself some time, and not do anything until I felt completely comfortable with my choice.

[Emmeline II]

I'd just tell the ped that you are delaying for now (tell him you are reading the CDC pink book and you'd like to finish it before making any decisions).

I think that the point that people are trying to make is that you cannot figure this out the day before an appointment; if you are confused and unsure don't you want to be confident that you are doing the best thing before you allow injections that can damage your child? What you are considering is indefensible to the AAP so do not try to defend yourself. Just appear to be persuadable so that you are not fired before you can switch doctors.

You can check the CDC website for the dose schedule; I no longer vax so I'm not quite up on the schedule. Doses are just a guessing game; if 1 DTaP doesn't give the required percentage of the population immune, then give 2 - no, wait 3 - no wait 4 - no wait 5, YES! 5 DTaP will do it (though it does not prevent infection or transmission in anycase)!

I have some info I'll pm you. Have a visit to Inside Vaccines linked below.

[alegna]

More information is great

But the point is that arguing or discussing it with peds won't get you anywhere.

Will come back and see what I can answer for you

-Angela

[alegna]

HIB and Prevnar: are these just two different choices to vaccinate against the same disease of meningitis? The descriptions of both mention meningitis. Is the sole purpose of the HIB just to lessen the chance of spreading disease to those with weaker immune systems, or to actually try to protect the child? Both of these vaccinate against bacteria rather than viruses, correct? Can the diseases be easily treated with antibiotics?

Two different bacteria that both can cause meningitis. Meningitis is a condition, not a disease. Can be caused by any number of viruses or bacteria as well as some medications etc. Neither lowers the total number of cases of meningitis as other bacteria simply fill the void.

Pneumococcal: Again, the purpose seems to be to prevent meningitis. I am probably the most high risk person in the house for this disease since I am prediabetic. However, I don't see how vaccinating my son rather than myself would do any bit of good since I'm a SAHM anyway. Can't this disease be treated with antibiotics since it's bacterial anyway?


Meningococcal: Okay, now I'm frustrated! What is the point in 4 vaccines that vax against meningitis????

All different bacteria. As you see, they will never be able to vaccinate against every single thing that might cause meningitis. For every additional thing they vaccinate against in this case, it causes some other bugger to spike (then they make a vax for that, then something else comes up etc etc etc- research serotype replacement)

HepA: I'm undecided on this one. We're only high risk if we eat out at restaurants or eat prepackaged food, right? We make most everything, even sauces and broths at home.

It's fecal/oral. Could get it any way you could get any fecal/oral disease... VERY mild in children as a rule.

Varicella: Seriously?

Seriously. And a generation ago many said that about measles and mumps.

Flu: I'm considering this one, but only because my grandmother has bronchiectasis. I want my son to be able to visit his great-grandmother often, especially since she probably doesn't have much time left alive. I don't want to have to keep him away from her and everyone else for 2 weeks at a time in fear of spreading the flu to her. Otherwise, I don't think the flu is really something that needs to be so feared.

But yet there are probably any number of upper respiratory viruses that could be harmful for her. The only one you worry about is flu since there's a vax.... She's probably vaxed for the flu anyway though.


Hope that helped a touch!

-Angela

[charleysmama23]

some answers

I'm a peds nurse, so I think I can answer your questions, some of them anyway. I'm not going to go into what I do with my dd, vax are a big mom decision and totally personal, so here are just a few brief answers to your questions.

Hep B: there are 3 of these, the last done btwn 6-18mos, so it depends on how many he has had

DTaP: I'm no help here, I don't know what they would want to do on this one, but since he's already had 3 shots you should ask your doc if you have to continue to maintain immunization (ask him to explain it to you in detail)

HIB: haemophilus influenza B was the major cause of meningitis in children for many years, it cannot be treated easily with antibiotics and caused many deaths as well as serious developmental delays/CP in children (just facts, not trying to freak you out), kids don't get this and make it out unscathed.

Prevnar & Pneumococcal: SAME vaccine, the dif is that pneumococcal protects against more strains of the same disease: pneumonia (not meningitis) your doc will give your son Prevnar unless he has an immune disorder

Meningococcal: the first dose of this is 4-6 years, but only recommended for high risk kids (immunocompromised, for example)

Varicella: breaking my rule: I vote no...unless your son has immune problems that would cause him to get a severe or life-threatening case of chicken pox

Flu: if you get this tell them you want the THIMEROSAL FREE vaccine (in Cali it's the law for kids under 3) (that's mercury)

I hope this helps you, here's a site that has some good info (it's pro-vax, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's all well-supported researach): http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/mic...e.jsp?id=75918

good luck!! (remember, you're the mommy and you will make the best decision for your kids!)

[alegna]

Originally Posted by charleysmama23

HIB: haemophilus influenza B was the major cause of meningitis in children for many years, it cannot be treated easily with antibiotics and caused many deaths as well as serious developmental delays/CP in children (just facts, not trying to freak you out), kids don't get this and make it out unscathed.

Actually, pre-vax, most kids had immunity to Hib with no clinical case recorded. In most kids, most of the time, it's a minor bug. It's very unusual for it to create meningitis.

And NOW, it has virtually disappeared. Almost no cases reported.

-Angela

[MadameXCupcake]

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

There are no no-vax-friendly peds in my area. Heck, my state doesn't even allow midwives, so it's a very medical-model-is-God state of mind I'm dealing with here. I think it's important to be established with a pediatrician, and not vaxing won't go over with any of them. I'm just trying to do the best I can and am confused about some of the information I'm reading, and need some answers to my questions. Really, I feel like the responses in this thread are approaching things in the same way as my pediatrician does: appealing to emotional arguments, and just trying to get me to blindly agree to do/not do something. I'm looking for facts about vaccines and these diseases that I'm having trouble finding in the research I'm doing. Whether or not he gets a shot tomorrow, I'm going to need more information than what I currently have.

Just say no, and do not argue with him, you do not have to.

Have you tried here for a Ped? http://alabama-moms.com/
I found that by searching on here its an Alabama AP mama group, I know its to late since your little one is here all ready but for future babies there are some midwives on that website.
Good Luck!!

[loveyourohana]

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

No, it won't buy me time. I've already canceled two well child appointments this summer because he ended up with a fever from teething. As long as I appear to be compromising by getting a shot tomorrow, then we won't be kicked out of the practice.

and? there are other practices! I would just say you are researching, if they try to make you feel bad, leave... you do not need to explain yourself to someone you are hiring!

option two...

Call and cancel again... tell them your sorry, and tell them you will reschedule at a different time as to you are unsure of your schedule at this point. Pediatricians offices are used to this... promise... No hypervent. or grief comes with putting in the time to research them... and take the time to do so... Even if it is a couple of months... its ok! come here often, and we will help you!!!

Sit quietly for just a moment tonight, don't think about anything, just breathe, after breathing for a while, ask yourself is my child worth the study, are my anxious feelings worth studying for in order to become more aware and knowledgable... Yes... You are both worth that! Everything WILL be alright!

I would suggest again... don't go to this Dr.s apt. take some time for yourself to learn what you need to learn. There is a reason you are feeling the way you are feeling... I am on edge reading the anxiety and stress in your post, so lets get to the bottom of it so that you feel you have found the answer you need to never regret. You can't take back anything that has already been introduced to the body (vaccination) , but you can give yourself more time.

[Gitti]

Not being confrontationla, but just wondering about a few things -

Originally Posted by charleysmama23

Hep B: there are 3 of these, the last done btwn 6-18mos, so it depends on how many he has had

Unless the mom is positive, don't you wonder why a child would need that one?

DTaP: I'm no help here, I don't know what they would want to do on this one, but since he's already had 3 shots you should ask your doc if you have to continue to maintain immunization (ask him to explain it to you in detail)

For diphtheria, tetanus or pertussis? Three poisons that the body can't build immunity to even after contracting it. How could a vaccine accopomplish this?

HIB: haemophilus influenza B was the major cause of meningitis in children for many years, it cannot be treated easily with antibiotics and caused many deaths as well as serious developmental delays/CP in children (just facts, not trying to freak you out), kids don't get this and make it out unscathed.

I am from the generation that had NEVER heard of Hib. Not in me, or may children until AFTER the vaccine came on the market.
Do you have a source that confirms the many deaths of children with hib?

Prevnar & Pneumococcal: SAME vaccine, the dif is that pneumococcal protects against more strains of the same disease: pneumonia (not meningitis) your doc will give your son Prevnar unless he has an immune disorder

Have you ever wondered how they will contiune with those conjugated vaccines? Seems like it is Sisyphus work, don't you think?
http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...gate-vaccines/

Varicella: breaking my rule: I vote no...unless your son has immune problems that would cause him to get a severe or life-threatening case of chicken pox

Which could then also make the vaccine dangerous.

Flu: if you get this tell them you want the THIMEROSAL FREE vaccine (in Cali it's the law for kids under 3) (that's mercury)

Why would anyone even have to tell a ped that? Wouldn't you think any ped would automatically refuse to inject mercury into a human being?

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by charleysmama23

I hope this helps you, here's a site that has some good info (it's pro-vax, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's all well-supported researach): http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/mic...e.jsp?id=75918

No offense but I would definitely take the information on that website with a grain of salt. The guy who wrote that said that children can safely have 10,000 vaccines at once. No kidding. He also profits from one of the Rotovirus vaccines. Of course someone who profits from a vaccine is not going to say anything bad about them. There is also plenty of valid research questioning the necessity, safety, and efficacy of vaccines.

I second reading the InsideVaccines website, you can look up each vaccine and the articles are easy to read. Remember it is YOUR decision whether or not to give vaccine to your child, NOT the doctor's decision.

I wanted to comment also on the DTaP, since it is one of the most highly reactive vaccines on the children's schedule. Just because your son did not have severe reactions to his previous DTaP's, doesn't mean he won't at a 4th or 5th DTaP. I know this is just anecdotal, but I've read one too many stories where after many vaccines, there was one that finally 'broke the camels back' so to speak. There are no guarantees. Keep researching and asking questions. Good luck!

[LavenderMae]

I agree with most everyone else don't vaccinate anymore until you have done your research. I would tell the doctor you are researching right now and are going to decline this one service until you are sure if you want it or not. Remember doctors work for us and it's completely within your rights to decline a service they provide.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/

[spero]

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

I have some questions that I need quick answers for so I can better defend our decisions at the ped. appointment in the morning.

OK, first and foremost you don't have to defend YOUR decisions to the health professional that YOU pay to be a PARTNER in your child's health care.

HepB: He got all the recommended shots through age 6 months. I don't have HepB, so I don't think he needed it anyway. But since he was completely vaxed through 6 months, he's done with this series anyway, correct?

Even this pro-vaccine pediatrician says the Hep B vaccine for children is dumb. (see Truth #3).

DTaP: There are 5 required doses of this vax before immunity, correct?

Who the hell knows? Now the CDC recommends a booster at 11-12 yrs and every 10 years thereafter. The ped we just left (over vax issues) recommends (read: INSISTS UPON) a booster every FIVE years after the adolescent dose.

Considering that this is arguably the most reactive/harmful vaccination there is, I'm astonished at the number of doses, esp in babies/toddlers.

HepA: I'm undecided on this one. We're only high risk if we eat out at restaurants or eat prepackaged food, right? We make most everything, even sauces and broths at home.

As someone else noted, Hep A is generally mild - though bothersome, since it involves vomit and diarrhea - in children.

Have YOU ever had a Hep a vax? I haven't.

Varicella: Seriously?

I think you answered yourself on that one. Seriously!

Flu: I'm considering this one, but only because my grandmother has bronchiectasis. I want my son to be able to visit his great-grandmother often, especially since she probably doesn't have much time left alive. I don't want to have to keep him away from her and everyone else for 2 weeks at a time in fear of spreading the flu to her. Otherwise, I don't think the flu is really something that needs to be so feared.

Wouldn't you know if your kid had the flu? Wouldn't you be keeping him away from grandma if was was ill, anyway? Personally I think that the flu vax is one of the most over-hyped & worthless vaccines there is. Plus, there is NO guarantee that the vaccine will prevent your kid from getting the flu - so what's the point?

I'm also thinking of giving him the DTaP so we don't get kicked out of the ped's practice and we need to stay with the current practice until I'm pg again.

As someone who was very recently "kicked out" of a ped practice (after 18+ years) over the vax issue - I say if they threaten that, tell them to shove it and walk out. Find a family practitioner who will work WITH you, instead of dictating to you. I wish I'd done it years ago!!!!

I think my ped might let us get by with just one vax per visit.

Why are you paying someone to tell you what to do with YOUR child?

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

As long as I appear to be compromising by getting a shot tomorrow, then we won't be kicked out of the practice.

What you are really compromising is your child's well-being. Why in the hell are you putting this doc's requirements above your child's needs?

Originally Posted by MadameXCupcake

Our children come first not the happyness of a doctor.

Originally Posted by alegna

Just say no. don't compromise.

Staying in a practice is not a good reason to vaccinate.

:

Originally Posted by Jaysfamily

I think it's important to be established with a pediatrician,

Again, I urge you to check out what this PEDIATRICIAN has to say about his own profession in "Your Child’s Health Care Provider Doesn’t Have to be a Doctor"

But as the role of the pediatrician transformed from that of sub-specialist to that of primary care provider, the way pediatricians are trained did not change. Pediatricians are trained in hospitals, where they are taught to care for ill children. The pediatric curriculum is largely based on the diagnosis and management of pediatric diseases. Only recently have pediatric training programs begun to teach primary care in any depth. As a result, pediatricians emerge from training programs well-prepared to care for sick children, and less-well prepared to care for healthy children. This type of training gives a young pediatrician a much skewed perspective on the health of children. It wasn’t until I began practicing in the communities that I discovered that the overwhelming majority of children are, in fact, quite healthy!

Pediatricians are trained to wield highly-specialized hammers. They are over-equipped to practice well-child care.

FP’s perform excellent work, and provide the advantage of comprehensive care to entire families.

Originally Posted by momofmine

All the people here are saying is that it is YOUR choice, your decision, not your doctor's. You are saying that you are just beginning to research it and look for more information, so take the time and do it. Really, you cannot just read one thing tonight and make a decision tomorrow. There is a lot to process, and you have to make the choices that feel best for your family, not because a doctor told you to vax or someone on a board told you not to.