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Dtap or Pediarix?

post #1 of 24
10/27/08 at 1:53pm
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know which is safer? My daughter will be getting her 1st Dtap shot at 4 mos. in November. Her doctor has the Pediarix, which I believe is 5 in 1- Dtap, Hep B and IPV. I am not sure if I should get the Dtap alone and spread out the HepB and IPV seperately, or just get the all in one Pediarix. Her pedi said the IPV shot alone has more preservative in it so she would rather give the Pediarix. I know the Pediarix is supposed to have only trace amounts of thimerosol (sp?), but all 5 viruses at once scares me! I would appreciate hearing what you all think and what others are doing!

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post #2 of 24
10/27/08 at 2:16pm
I am probably the least helpful because we as a family have researched vaccines and we are not doing any. My two dd have decided not to vaccinate their kids. The one grandchild that did get some vaccines had a reaction, although no doctor would ever admit that, and so the other two grandchildren were not vaccinated and are much healthier for it. (ages 11, 5, 3)

No one has to inject their child with vaccines, and every state has some sort of an exemption for school. No exemption is required before a child goes to day care or school.

I wish you luck with your decision.
post #3 of 24
10/27/08 at 2:18pm
I also meant to say welcome to the vaccine forum and kudos to you for researching. You owe it to your child, we all owe that much to our children since vaccines affect the immune system profoundly.
post #4 of 24
10/27/08 at 2:25pm
Do you have hepatitis B?
post #5 of 24
10/27/08 at 2:32pm
I wouldn't consider any of those for a child under 2 years old.

-Angela
post #6 of 24
10/27/08 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmom0708 View Post
I know the Pediarix is supposed to have only trace amounts of thimerosol (sp?),
There is no thimerosal in Pediarix.

http://us.gsk.com/products/assets/us_pediarix.pdf

Quote:
Each 0.5-mL dose also contains 4.5 mg of NaCl and aluminum adjuvant (not more than 0.85 mg aluminum by assay). Each dose also contains ≤100 mcg of residual formaldehyde and ≤100 mcg of polysorbate 80 (Tween 80). Neomycin sulfate and polymyxin B are used in the polio vaccine manufacturing process and may be present in the final vaccine at ≤0.05 ng neomycin and ≤0.01 ng polymyxin B per dose. The procedures used to manufacture the HBsAg antigen result in a product that contains ≤5% yeast protein.
PEDIARIX is formulated without preservatives.
Thimerosal is a preservative.
post #7 of 24
10/27/08 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmom0708 View Post
Does anyone know which is safer? My daughter will be getting her 1st Dtap shot at 4 mos. in November. Her doctor has the Pediarix, which I believe is 5 in 1- Dtap, Hep B and IPV. I am not sure if I should get the Dtap alone and spread out the HepB and IPV seperately, or just get the all in one Pediarix. Her pedi said the IPV shot alone has more preservative in it so she would rather give the Pediarix. I know the Pediarix is supposed to have only trace amounts of thimerosol (sp?), but all 5 viruses at once scares me! I would appreciate hearing what you all think and what others are doing!

I would advise you to do your research before getting the DPaT separate or combine. The DPaT is one of the most reactive vaccines given today. check out the VAERS. As for separate or combine always choose separate if you decide to do it at all. No studies have EVER been done on the safety of injecting a tiny baby (or anyone else for that matter) with 5 viruses/diseases along with all of the preservatives at one time. It's a toxic/dangerous cocktail. As for the IPV having "more" preservatives Id say your ped has no clue what he's taking about (don't worry most peds don't when it comes to vaccines...they just regurgiate info that is fed to them by vaccine manufacterers) Please go to http://www.novaccine.com/specific-va...ne.asp?v_id=10 look at the ingredients for Pediatrix. It includes the following: Aluminum hydroxide, Formaldehyde, Neomycin, Polymyxin B, Polysorbate 80, Thimerosal, Yeast, Pertussis toxin, Filamentous hemagglutinin (FHA), Pertactin, Stopper vial may contain dry latex rubber, Tetanus, Sodium chloride, Virus: polio.

As for the Thimerosol being "trace amounts" consider this: 0.5 parts per billion (ppb) mercury = Kills human neuroblastoma cells (Parran et al., Toxicol Sci 2005; 86: 132-140).
2 ppb mercury = U.S. EPA limit for drinking water http://www.epa.gov/safewater/contami...ndex.html#mcls
20 ppb mercury = Neurite membrane structure destroyed (Leong et al., Neuroreport 2001; 12: 733-37).
200 ppb mercury = level in liquid the EPA classifies as hazardous waste. http://www.epa.gov/epaoswer/hazwaste...s.htm#hazwaste

"trace amounts" in vaccines do not have to be reported by the manufacterer so you actually have NO IDEA how much is actually in there, but be sure it's more than .5ppb which is a minute amount. In fact until recently when they actually stopped lting about how bad Thimerosol was the amount in vaccines was between 25 and 50 THOUSAND ppb. http://www.*********/vaccine/quotes19.html

IPOL which is the polio vaccine by itself (IPV) has the follwoing preservatives: Formaldehyde, Neomycin, 2 - Phenoxyethanol, Polymyxin B, Streptomycin, Stopper vial may contain dry latex rubber, Bovine (cow) serum, Virus: polio.

Hep B ingredients: http://www.novaccine.com/specific-va...ne.asp?v_id=46

Just wondering why on earth you would get a Hep B vaccine for an infant?? (Unless you are Hep B +). Will your baby be getting any tatooes with dirty needles?? Will she be having unprotected sex anytime soon?? or sharing dirty needles while she shoots up? If not then it is totally uncessesary. Here is a link to the possible adverse reactions to the Hep B vaccine: http://www.novaccine.com/vaccine-ris...x.asp?sv_id=46

I have been researching vaccines for 3 years (ever since an aquiantance's baby died of "sids" 14 hrs after her 1st DPaT shot at 4 months old) and what I have learned made me 100% comfortable in not vaxing at all. I have a 6 month old unvaxed son. Whatever you decide please do not do anything until you have done the research. Don't ask your ped that is not research!! Really dig into this topic and you will find more than you ever imagined. You can always vax later if you feel that is right for your family, but you can't take then out once they are in there. You owe it to your daughter to find out the facts because she can't do it for herself. I wish you luck.
post #8 of 24
10/27/08 at 4:24pm
: I no longer do any vaccines; my second babe is completely unvaxed.

I think either vaccine is risky but I would do the one with the fewest antigens and space them out w---i---d---e. Combination vaccines tend to have more/more serious reactions; the MMR vs M, M, R, and the MMR+Chicken Pox vs those two vaccines separate. A few months ago the CDC withdrew its rec for the MMR+Chicken Pox vax combo.

Have a visit here Inside Vaccines.
post #9 of 24
10/27/08 at 4:37pm
:

And I would advise against getting the Hep B. Do you know how Hep B is generally transmitted? Through sexual intercourse and illegal IV drug use. The situation would be different if you yourself had Hep B and gave birth to your daughter (not adopted). Even then some people question it.

Just wanted to throw that out there.

Also you can do a search on VAERS for the DTaP and Pediarix. This may help you decide.
post #10 of 24
10/27/08 at 4:44pm
Have you read the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book? It was so helpful to me when making decisions regarding which vaccines to use, which brands, and whether or not to do certain ones at all.

Its very difficult to find unbiased information about vaccines - this book seems to be a good balance.
post #11 of 24
10/27/08 at 4:44pm
Hi. I have finally convinced my brother to delay vaccinating his 3 month old baby. He is listening, but would like some more information on delayed vaccinating. Does anyone have the Dr. Sears schedule for vaccinating? Thanks. I am posting this question here because I can't seem to find the new thread button to start a new thread.
post #12 of 24
10/27/08 at 4:54pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your replies I appreciate them - what I didn't mention is that I am awake most nights agonizing over these shots. If it were only up to me, I would not vaccinate her at all. My husband and I are at odds over this, he is for vax's. His family vaccinated all their kids and none of them had adverse effects other than a fever. Who's to say she won't have problems though?

I don't have HepB - my daughter was born a preemie 34 weeks and more than once the doctors and nurses at the hospital told me "we just need you to sign here to give her the hepB shot to discharge her" I said ABSOLUTELY NOT - I know that's not mandatory. I have also battled her doctor over these vax's when she wanted to give her Dtap- polio-hepB at 2 months and I said not until I've researched them - she actually got angry with me about "all the false information out there". In the end told me she won't force it, but will keep on me about it. It's hard to find a doctor who doesn't feel that way.

My daughter has only had Hib and PCV so far, spaced 2 weeks apart. I want to delay the dtap as long as possible and the others I just want to do them to get her into school but then there's all that catching up to do. I hate this.
post #13 of 24
10/27/08 at 5:02pm
moving to the selective and delayed forum, I think you will get a good response there
post #14 of 24
10/27/08 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newmom0708 View Post
My daughter has only had Hib and PCV so far, spaced 2 weeks apart. I want to delay the dtap as long as possible and the others I just want to do them to get her into school but then there's all that catching up to do. I hate this.
Unless you live in WV or MS you do NOT have to vax to get her in school. You can use an exemption.

-Angela
post #15 of 24
10/27/08 at 5:05pm
You don't have to do them to use the government schools. There are almost always exemptions. I don't know about private schools. You don't have to deal with a doctor who doesn't respect your intelligence and decision-making ability. I know that you can find people to support or respect your decisions - believe that and pursue it!

As for your husband, how much research has he done? Saying "I had them and I'm fine" is bullshirt as an argument - why is that okay but a parent of a vaccine-damaged child is not allowed to forward her anecdote as evidence? You wouldn't compromise with someone by letting them "partially" run over your cat; if you think you shouldn't vaccinate then doing just some is NOT meeting in the middle - it's ignoring your voice.

There is plenty of time. I don't mean to suggest that you should ignore your husband, but I think it is a decision that all parties need to be comfortable with, and you are saying you are not comfortable. Keep reading, and get him to read, too!
post #16 of 24
10/27/08 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
Please go to http://www.novaccine.com/specific-va...ne.asp?v_id=10 look at the ingredients for Pediatrix. It includes the following: Aluminum hydroxide, Formaldehyde, Neomycin, Polymyxin B, Polysorbate 80, Thimerosal, Yeast, Pertussis toxin, Filamentous hemagglutinin (FHA), Pertactin, Stopper vial may contain dry latex rubber, Tetanus, Sodium chloride, Virus: polio.
The information posted at the link does not match the product insert information on GSK's page (I got it from the vaccine archives). The GSK site specifically says that Pediarix is formulated WITHOUT preservatives.

Understand that I do not endorse this or other vaccines; however, I do think that posting accurate information is of utmost importance in this forum.
post #17 of 24
10/27/08 at 5:24pm
My DD got the Pediarix shot at 2 mo. I'm a first-time mom and was pressured into it by DH and our ped despite my original plans to delay/selectively vax. DD had no discernible reaction to the shot--no fever, no fussiness, etc. That does NOTHING to make me feel better about the decision I was forced into making, and does not make me any more likely to keep vaxing her on the 'official' schedule. Please, listen to your instincts and advocate for your babe better than I was able to.
post #18 of 24
10/27/08 at 7:51pm
I would get the least number of diseases in a shot possible.

There is no reason to get her hepB if you don't have hepB unless your baby is an IV drug user or a sex worker. Seriously, she's not going to contract this illness from the safety of your arms.

There's no reason to worry about polio right now unless you're going to be traveling to parts of India or Africa and expect your child to come into contact with fecal matter.

That leaves the question of DTaP. All of these illnesses can be acquired in the US. The most likely is pertussis. What I did is research on the CDC's website the incidences of the various diseases in the state I lived in for the most recent year, because all confirmed cases of these have to be reported. There were about 3,000 cases of pertussis (whooping cough) in a state of 9 million when I was looking, and I felt like those were decent odds she wouldn't be exposed. Plus these are all bacterial and can be treated with antibiotics.

I took all this information, and information about reaction rates to vaxes and shared/discussed with my DH and we came to an agreement that we're both comfortable with. We didn't vax our girls until they were 2 years old and then only 1 vax at a time. We still haven't decided on the MMR or HepB, and they've had chicken pox. So we did do the DTaP, and polio and HiB (which if you do after 15 months they only need 1 of).

All I'm saying is that if you know what you're talking about, and you inform your DH, you should be able to work out something you're both okay with. There are plenty of docs that advocate for a different vax schedule, my girls have only seen docs who do, and the first was accidental.

My MIL is totally pro-vax because she had polio as a child, but her son was willing to talk through the issue with me because he could see how much it was bothering me. Now I actually think he'd be willing to go totally no vax...so we'll visit that question with the next one.

BTW, my DD1 was actually exposed to pertussis in her first year, and didn't get it.
post #19 of 24
10/30/08 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juliaw View Post
Hi. I have finally convinced my brother to delay vaccinating his 3 month old baby. He is listening, but would like some more information on delayed vaccinating. Does anyone have the Dr. Sears schedule for vaccinating? Thanks. I am posting this question here because I can't seem to find the new thread button to start a new thread.
Here is Dr. Sears schedule, directly from The Vaccine Book:

2 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
3 months: Pc, HIB
4 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
5 months: Pc, HIB
6 months: DTaP, Rotavirus
7 months: Pc, HIB
15 months: Pc, HIB
5 years: Tetnus booster
10 years: blood tests for measles, mumps, rubella, chicken pox and Hep A immunity. Consider vaccinating if not immune. Also consider a 3 dose Polio series if travel to Asia or Africa is a possibility.
11 years: HPV, 3 doses, girls only
12 years: Hep B, 3 doses
post #20 of 24
10/31/08 at 2:08pm
Thank you diamond lil for responding. I have since found the new thread button! Have a good weekend.

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Mothering › Mothering Discussion Forums › Health › Vaccinations › Mindful Vaccination › Dtap or Pediarix?