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Vaccinations  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Being a NICU and Peds nurse, I am all over the vaccinations especially when a Pertussis case comes in. It is so sad to see them. But, having my own kids and my new son, I feel very conflicted. I want them protected bc these diseases are horrible and what they do to a kid can be horrible. But, will it be my kid that gets autism or not. I mean, why does someone's kid get Autism supposedly from a vaccine and mine did not. And for that matter, why did a mother's 6 kids all get autism. That makes the vaccine cause possibility unlikely. Even the ASA isn't linking Autism to Vaccines. I agree that mercury and other compounds in the vaccines are odd and not wise to put in our children. So, what is the answer? I want mercury free vaccines myself but I don't think there is a clear cut answer. I guess I have to decide which would make me feel worse: Autistic child induced by vaccine or a brain damaged child from meningitis related to measles b/c lack of vaccine. I am hoping time will tell and we can get to the bottom of this quickly.

I do find it strange that a newborn needs a Hep. B vaccine. My pedi. wanted him to get it at his one week check up. I told her I don't think he will be having sex or doing drugs for awhile and I am immune. I mean really. I think she thought I was strange considering I am a nurse and all but I think they get too many too soon. Some I think are necessary and others I think can wait until later. Others, much later. And you know, I have received that crazy MMR vaccine I think 4 times and I am still not immune. Being a nurse, that concerns me bc I would hate to get pregnant and then get Rubella because it is dangerous to the fetus. I think I read a threat about a job forcing a woman to get the shot for employment. As far as I know, there is a thing called The Patient's Bill of Rights. Right to refuse treatment especially if there is a concern for harm.

I do get the flu vaccine. Hey, I am a NICU and a Peds nurse. Can't spread it to them or my babies. Never had the flu. You know, there is an interesting point to the flu vaccine. Granted, last years' did not cover the flu we saw and it was a bad strain. But, my Pedi said that there is some hope that if a person continuously gets the flu vaccine, it could possibly provide some protection if and/or when the Avian flu comes. Don't know. Thought it was interesting. And this is really off the wall, but an Oxford study showed that there is a possibility that women who were past their 20th week in pregnancy and got the flu had an increased risk of Schizophrenia later in life. How does one come up with that study. I found it when I was researching that tamaflu drug they give to people with the flu and to see if it was pregnancy friendly and what the benefits to risks ratio was. Turns out, better to work out the flu on your own if pregnant. I don't think it is ever appropriate to risk the fetus is you don't have to.

I don't know if what I am rattling on about is appropriate for this forum or not, but I think it shows an unbiased side with some interesting questions and points to ponder. Plus, I would like other people's educated information.
post #2 of 20
It's interesting that you speak specifically about Pertussis. Many of the recent past outbreaks of pertussis have been among the vaccinated due to a vaccine that is inadequate and offers very little protection (but all of the crap).

This is definitely the place to post questions and get ubiased answers regarding vaccines .
post #3 of 20
Welcome!

Research each disease and vaccine and decide which, if any, are right for you and your kids.

When I did that I found no vaccines worth getting for my kids.

I have two unvaxed healthy kids.

-Angela
post #4 of 20
I second Angela's recommendation. I also have an unvaxed little one after doing the research. Make sure that you check the incidence rates at the CDC's website. Do your own fact checks, and make sure you read the pamphlets enclosed with each vax.

Good luck, and have fun!
post #5 of 20
You are not the only medical professional who questions vaccines. My pediatrician (who is part of a very vaccine promoting, main stream practice) did delayed vaccinations and chose which ones she wanted. I recently spoke with her about ALL the different vaccines. I feel she gave me very objective information without all the fear based anecdotal information I had gotten from a different ped in the same practice. I think it is imperative that you do a lot of reading from all different sources, talk with different docs with different opinions and form your own from there. I have two fully vaccinated children and two non-vaccinated children. The only difference I have noticed so far is that the non-vaccinated ones have gotten sick less often and when they do get sick, get over it faster. These are decisions that you have to make on your own as it is a VERY personal decision. Good luck on your quest for information.
post #6 of 20
Welcome!

You also have to remember that in your day-to-day dealings as a peds nicu rn, you (unfortunately ) see the absolute worst of the worst cases. Keep in mind that pertussis is endemic and is in no way a "rare" disease.

I'm also a health care provider for children, and declined the flu vaccine for myself. Proper handwashing goes a LONG way in preventing the transmission of not only the flu virus, but other pathogens that may cause illness.

By the way, check out the blog in my signature. They are becoming well-known in the blogosphere for really looking at the science and the numbers.
post #7 of 20
i have had a long standing battle with my ex on this issue. he went behind my back several times just to spite me. now we're coming on dd's 5 year vaccination. i spoke to the doctor and told her that i dont want anymore vaccines for her because i dont think it's necessary plus she gets sick everytime because of the ingredients. she told me she couldn't deny my child vaccines and that her dad had a right to do it! is that true? i'm having a real hard time finding a physician that will not vaccinate.
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by eccomama View Post
i have had a long standing battle with my ex on this issue. he went behind my back several times just to spite me. now we're coming on dd's 5 year vaccination. i spoke to the doctor and told her that i dont want anymore vaccines for her because i dont think it's necessary plus she gets sick everytime because of the ingredients. she told me she couldn't deny my child vaccines and that her dad had a right to do it! is that true? i'm having a real hard time finding a physician that will not vaccinate.
It's true that her dad can have her vaxed without your consent as long as he's legally a parent with decision making rights (if he's NOT you can fight him, but it's unlikely you'll win...)

good luck!

-Angela
post #9 of 20
Welcome! Just wanted to give you support. I am also a RN and made the choice to delay vaccines until I did more research. Through that research I discovered the truth about vaccines and am now refusing them all.

Best of luck!! I have a lot of information on vaccines in my blog (link in signature) if you want a place to start.
post #10 of 20
Welcome!!

I was provax all my life. I had a friend years ago that had an unvaxed son and homeschooled him. I thought she was a fruitcake! 3 years ago an aquaintance of mine's baby died of "sids" 14 hrs after her DPaT shot. I have spent the last 3 years researching vaccines and what I have discovered has made me 100% comfortable with not vaxing my own 6 month old son. What I have found particularly disgusting is the politics of the industry. Big pharma, CDC, FDA and the IOM are all corrupt and riddled with conflicts of interest. They KNOW how dangerous vaccines are and are doing everything they can to cover up and distort this information. You said: "But, will it be my kid that gets autism or not. I mean, why does someone's kid get Autism supposedly from a vaccine and mine did not. And for that matter, why did a mother's 6 kids all get autism. That makes the vaccine cause possibility unlikely."
I believe that soem children have a genetic predisposition to neurological disorders and the vaccines are what pushes them over the edge. This is why the mother of 6 children all getting autism actually makes a lot of sense since genetically they probably were all vulnerable.
Here are some great websites to check out for vaccine info:
http://www.novaccine.com
http://www.sayingnotovaccines.com
http://www.vaclib.org/indexdoc.htm#legal
http://www.nmaseminars.com/AboutDrT.html
http://thinktwice.com/
http://www.chetday.com/vaccinationmyths.htm
http://insidevaccines.com/
http://www.vaccinenation.net/
http://www.knowvaccines.com/
http://www.putchildrenfirst.org/flu.html
http://vaccinationnews.com/
http://www.vaccinerights.com/
http://www.vierascheibner.com/

This is just a beginning...I suggest you read some of the great books written on the subject that are out there. Check out the stickies. Good luck and happy researching. There is a lot of BULL---- info out there, but the truth o=is out there too. You just have to dig for it.
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
The Peds. can't make you vaccinate and you can take your ex spouse back to court to have help in making those decisions. Do you share custody or are you the sole custodian?
post #12 of 20
Welcome and kudos for questioning vaccines.

This part jumped out at me a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kidsrn View Post
Autistic child induced by vaccine or a brain damaged child from meningitis related to measles b/c lack of vaccine. I am hoping time will tell and we can get to the bottom of this quickly.
Look at how many steps you have to take to get to that brain damage, each one less likely than the last. First, your child has to get measles, which is fairly unlikely. Then your child has to get meningitis because of the measles, which is unlikely. Then your child has to be brain damaged as a result of that meningitis. I don't mean to downplay the complications, but I think keeping them in perspective is a good idea. I understand you see the worst case scenarios on a regular basis. But that's just what they are, the worst cases. You don't see the ones that don't require lengthy hospitalizations and heroic measures.

Good luck on your research!
post #13 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidsrn View Post
I want mercury free vaccines myself but I don't think there is a clear cut answer. I guess I have to decide which would make me feel worse: Autistic child induced by vaccine or a brain damaged child from meningitis related to measles b/c lack of vaccine. I am hoping time will tell and we can get to the bottom of this quickly.
I think you need to step away from the vaccine for a while and research the illness. How likely is a child, who is appropriately treated with vitamin A, to have complications? Have you read about the measles outbreak in Switzerland the past couple of years?

Sure, they CAN be horrible; there are countless diseases that we do not vax for that also CAN be horrible. But what is the LIKELY course of the disease?

__________________________________________________

Here is the information on the Switzerland Measles outbreak:

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2007/070726.asp

483 cases total for November 2006- July 2007.


Quote:
Six percent of the 445 cases for whom a detailed questionnaire had been submitted were vaccinated against measles (18 with one dose and nine with two doses), 87% were unvaccinated, and the vaccination status of the remaining 7% was unknown. There were 43 cases (10%) requiring hospitalization. Among 445 cases for whom information about complications was available, four cases were reported with encephalitis (1%), all among children, 29 cases with pneumonia (7%, median age 10 years), and 31 cases with otitis media [earache](7%). No deaths were reported.
http://www.eurosurveillance.org/edit...8/080221_1.asp
Switzerland Measles Outbreak - From Nov 2006 to Feb 2008:

"1405 cases
1319 cases for which detailed information available**

Hospitalizations** 104 -- 7.9%
Pneumonia** 63 -- 4.8%
Otitis Media (ear aches)** 62 -- 4.7%
Encephalitis** 6 -- 0.5%

The proportion of vaccinated patients has been low for all ages (Figure 4). There were 104 cases (8% of 1,319 cases for whom information about hospitalisation and complications were available) who required hospitalisation. Six cases were reported with encephalitis or suspicion of encephalitis (0.5%), all among children. No deaths have been reported." The average age is eleven.[/quote]
_________________________________________
Graphs:
Graphs of England and Wales Mortality Rates 1838-1978

Disease Pattern Graphs from the 1800s to the Present Day


Measles "is generally looked upon as one of the most harmless diseases"according to Kurt Elsner, M.D. in 1908

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...619C946997D6CF

_______________________________
Quote:
I have received that crazy MMR vaccine I think 4 times and I am still not immune. Being a nurse, that concerns me bc I would hate to get pregnant and then get Rubella because it is dangerous to the fetus.
This doesn't mean your body is defective, it may be protecting you; there may be harm in you carrying antibodies for one or more of these diseases. I'd be more concerned about developing rheumatoid arthritis from the vaccine.

Quote:
According to the medical literature, if a pregnant woman gets rubella in the first 4 weeks of gestation, 30 – 50% of babies run the risk of congenital malformations. Infection between the fifth and eighth week gives a risk of 25%; and during the ninth to twelfth weeks it is 8%, giving an overall risk in the first trimester of 20%. The logical thought, to me, is not, "That is high, have the jab", but, "How is it that 80% of babies come through rubella in utero, in the first trimester, with no problems? What went wrong in the babies who had deformities?" I believe that diet and Vitamin A in the mother is the answer. ~~Hilary Butler
post #14 of 20
I also don't intend to just stand around and do nothing for my child if they were to get one of those illnesses. I mean, they talk like it's either the vax or nothing. There are many alternative approaches to supporting the body's immune system to dealing with these diseases as we have done for centuries, and we are in an even better position today in our current society because we have access to clean water, plenty of nutritious food, indoor plumbing, vitamins and supplements, homepathic or herbal remedies, etc, etc.

I just don't see how breaking the body down by injecting all those chemicals and altering how the body's own immune system works, can possibly be helpful. We do not normally encounter these diseases in the way we are exposed to them from a shot. You encounter the wild measles virus through the mouth or nose or some mucous membrane of someone who has or is incubating the virus, and I just think when we bypass the body's own dynamic system for overcoming these things, we are messing things up.
post #15 of 20
This is just a matter of perspective, but personally I find the idea of my child suffering from an illness to be easier to deal with than if she was suffering from a vaccine reaction.

Reason being, we have no control (or very little control other than factors such as healthy lifestyle/avoiding obvious infectious areas) over what we "catch." Unless you plan on keeping your kid in a bubble, vaccinated or not, your kid will be exposed to germs, viruses and bacteria.

Whereas, with vaccinations, at least right now, I have control over them and I can choose not to inject a vaccine into my daughter.

So, for example, if my child came down with the measles and despite my attempts to keep her healthy and well, she suffered from it, what can you do? Really? That is a fact of life. Measles is hardly a life-threatening illness, so her dying or being permanently injured would be one of those rare things.

But if I paid someone to inject my daughter and I stood there and let it happen, and then she suffered....well, I think that would cause me some mental issues.
post #16 of 20
kidsrn - hi there,

Firstly, let me say that being prepared to question the vaccination schedule at all is a great first step.

My advice to you is to take each illness that is vaccinated for and go into depth about the illness itself (causes, complications, - and factors contributing to complications - , treatment) and the controversy about that specific vaccine. There are some unfounded claims for vaccines and some very stubborn beliefs (unfounded by science) that surround vaccines.

For me, what helped the most in making any sense of this huge topic, was to realize that it was a mistake to think pro-vax or anti-vax. There are so many more issues and the vaccines available today have individual issues attached to them, as do the diseases have specific issues attached to them.
Having said that, I do find myself more and more unlikely to give any vaccinations to my family. Each vaccine and disease that I have read up on has not left me with any sense of urgency to go ahead and inject a concoction of various substances into my child. Especially when these substances have not been tested for safety in infants in a way that satisfies me that the medical establishment can say with any authority that each and every substance is a known entity - they know just how it affects infants and in what doses it is safe or not safe for short term and long term infant health and development.

You might be surprised to find our that Autism is a bit of a non issue compared to other information out there. (not saying here that vax has nothing to do with the increase in Autism, but it certainly cannot be the sole deciding factor in whether a child develops Autism or not)..... ok, for me it was not the issue that decided me not to vaccinate.

You have been given a wonderful list of resources in this thread.

Hope I haven't put you off, but it is tough once you start to question the schedule and very tough to defend decisions made (however informed) that go against the 'norm'. I have found the women on this board to be very helpful, supportive and knowledgeable. If you have the time and passion to delve into this topic you have definitely come to the right place.
post #17 of 20
Some children cant expell the mercury from the system... Too many toxins introduced... mercury, aluminum etc... destroys the intestines. Not every child gets autism or (toxic overload)... manifested as autism, there is a lot more to vaccinations than autism. Autism is just the beginning! I honestly believe vaccinations to be the root cause of cancers, diabeties, and other autoimmune disorders... look into this! Look at our children and the diseases and sicknesses that are becoming pandemics... compare them to the shot schedules from year to year, and you will notice the rise.

I used to think those that didn't vaccinate their children just couldn't see how important they were. Then my child reacted so bad there was no question that it was vaccination! Vaccinations are nothing more than advertisements, and promoted by a very very large business. I don't believe them to be safe at all.
post #18 of 20
kidsrn- you do understand that you can still pass flu around even if you're vaxed? And that the pertussis vaccine does not prevent you from passing it around?

Get as much info as you can about each vaccine and how it actually works. The ad campaigns for the pertusis vaccine particularly right now are flat out lies.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Welcome!

Research each disease and vaccine and decide which, if any, are right for you and your kids.

When I did that I found no vaccines worth getting for my kids.

I have two unvaxed healthy kids.

-Angela
:

Except the 2 kids part . Mine 1 kid is on the way.
post #20 of 20
I used to be very pro-vax from what we learned at school about immunobiology. What they fail to teach however are side effects or "other" vaccine ingredients and how little they actually know. I researched a lot and I am still somewhat confused, I want a selective, delayed schedule. I will break up the vaccines... And I studied my own vaccination schedule which was a little different (especially since I was born on the wrong side of the iron curtain where - at least one good point - selling a vaccine for profit wasn't the main objective). I received my first vaccine when I was one day old unfortunately - BCG tuberculosis, but DTaP wasn't started until 6 months. Then measles and IPV at age 1. I received a rubella shot at age 12, HepB when I was 16. I did go through mumps when I was 10 and it wasn't that bad. My entire elementary school had mumps, and there wasn't a single hospitalization necessary.
I see a lot of pressure all around, the CDC schedule is the same as the recent German one (with one exemption: HepB at birth is only recommended if the mother suffers from HepB). My sister is a physician (research) and strongly pro vaccines... It seems that she ignores all potential side effects and adverse reactions, like the peds here. It really makes me perplex how scientists ignore scientific studies that conclude or suggest findings that contradict mainstream science... Kind of makes the scientific process obsolete alltogether.
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