GD for 'older' children

[mamanOiseau]

Hi
I see many posts here about the less-than-5 crowd. Could anybody talk to me about GD for the 5-to-10 year olds ? I am having a hard time these days (months ?) with my 6.5 yo, and to a lesser extent with my 8.5 yo. I would like to improve things. It's mostly a lot of bickering, but also hitting (ds hitting me, and sadly, every now and then, me hitting ds, which I strongly regret but I seem to have a hard time curbing this).
We do warning five minutes before transitions, but the transitions are still very painful (going to bed for instance, but even coming for lunch is often a problem).
We seem to have an issue with us parents signing up a child for an activity (karate, for instance), because we both think the child will benefit from it; the child does not really want to go, complains about it, but always has a good time and a big smile after the lesson.
Anyway.
Oh right, we are also having a hard time with regulating screen time (dvd, computer, or nintendo). My ds thrives on constant excitement, it seems, so any downtime is like a catastrophe for him. He is very bad at keeping himself entertained.
Thanks for any helpful thoughts

[Magella]

Well, for screen time what works for us is a rule that there is *no* screen time on "school nights" (my kids are not homeschooled). So, Monday through Thursday there is no screen time at all. This has worked very, very well for us. And in fact, when they rarely ask now for screen time on the remaining three days of the week. When they do, we set a time limit of about 45 minutes (which can be somewhat flexible). Since we started doing this we have had very, very few disagreements about screen time--and ds, who gets very addicted to screen time, has been known to simply be done with screen time without being told his time is up (which is new for him).

When ds (7) gets bored, we may list some options for him but have been trying more often to let him solve his boredom problem on his own. Since we've been doing this he's been bored a lot less often. Sometimes when he complains of being bored we invite him to join us in housework, like cooking (which he likes). Sometimes he joins in with us, often he suddenly finds he isn't bored anymore.

For transitions like bedtime, we find a set, predictable routine helps. It helps to separate the kids, too--so for instance while my 4.5 year old cooperates very well with the bedtime routine, my 7 and 9 year olds get wild with each other. So we separate the 7 and 9 year olds, and we supervise closely. One of us parents will be in the bathroom helping the 7 year old and 4.5 year old with toothbrushing, and the other will be supervising the 9 year olds toothbrushing at the kitchen sink. The younger two go to bed earlier than the oldest, too, so that the routine goes more smoothly once toothbrushing is over.

For activities, we stick to activities the kids are interested in. So, we did encourage dd to try karate, but if she'd not been interested we wouldn't have signed her up. At this point all 3 kids are in karate, and currently the oldest still very much enjoys it but has trouble making the tranistion out of the house for karate (probably anxiety, but just in general transitions are hard for her). We let her know we understand that sometimes it's hard to get going and leave the house, then remind her that she will have a lot of fun when she gets there, and we have to go anyway because the other two kids want to go. Then we go, and most of the time she doesn't complain further. If she were to say that she didn't enjoy it anymore, we would reevaluate and probably let her stop. We see no reason to make the kids participate in (optional) activities they don't enjoy, these things are supposed to be fun for them.

For hitting, we've just worked on developing skills: identifying emotions, learning words to communicate those emotions, learning how to calm down and learning to know when you need a break to calm down, problem-solving skills (so you can work out a conflict with someone else). We've worked on modeling these things and on role-playing, practicing these things during calm times. We have a rule that if you hit, you sit--because if you're hitting you need to take some time to calm down in order to be safe and in order to be able to work things out with the person you're having a problem with. It isn't meant as a punishment, but as a cool-down period. We try to make sure we parents are modeling taking time to cool off when we're angry too, and that we explain that we're taking time to calm down so we don't yell. There's are a couple of great books on helping kids develop skills to resolve conflicts without aggression: Raising a Thinking Child (for parents of preschoolers and young children) and Raising a Thinking Preteen (for parents of kids ages 8 and up).

[mamaduck]

My kids are 12 and 8. Smooth days depend a lot of having some consistent routines, especially for the 8 year old. We have a chart on the fridge with an
"Before School Routine" and an "After School Routine." We do not bicker every day about bedtime, because it always the same deal. (Of course, whenever we feel the need to change a routine, it takes a few days to get used to it and we will hear some bickering during that time until the new routine "takes.") We've put a lot of thought and effort into creating routines that minimize the agony of transition times. (For example, time for pajamas and snack at 8:00, and then we read a chapter of our book aloud at 8:30, and bedtime is not until 9:00. So the chores are spread out with nice things integrated into the routine.)

We have made it a habit to involve the kids in planning and scheduling and we take their input very seriously. Kids are more likely to "buy into" a plan if they have helped to create the plan. So we talk about what will work best, and we get input from everyone, and then we develop a plan. It helps if the kids are able to say, "Yes, I agree to this."

With activities -- it honestly works best to sign kids up for what they choose, or nothing if they won't choose anything. You might find that if you just back off, and don't push anything they don't buy into, they will begin to show an interest in things. At least, that is how it has worked for our guys.

We limit screen time to after school but before dinner. It ends up being two hours, usually divided between them, on the computer. On the days that they have after-school activities, it is even less time. Absolutely no screen time before school (they would never leave the house!) and no screen time after six on school nights. On weekends we are a lot more lax. In summer and on long breaks from school, they "earn" screen time by being active. They match their screen time (minute to minute) with how long they have been active outdoors or at the YMCA. (They helped come up with this plan, and they love it.)

Unstructured time usually results in behavior problems here too, but fortunately there is not a whole lot of unstructured time. What there is I can usually fill by asking them to help make dinner, or clean up, or practise their instruments. They also LOVE to read. In fact, I have to shake my head now and then as I utter the ridiculous words, "Please put down the book and do your homework!" (Doh! Its a shame, isn't it???)

I am at a loss for what to suggest for the hitting problem. Once in a while, my kids will get physical with each other, but not with me. Not since they were four. At that time, we did basically what Magella outlined regarding expressing feelings, role playing, taking a break, etc. I think it is really important too, to be open and receptive to hearing their feelings even when they aren't very nice or pleasant. It needs to be okay for your child to say, "I'm really mad at you!" Otherwise it may come out in the form of physical aggression.

I love these ages and this time with my kids. It is massively easier than it was when they were little. They are reasonable, intelligent, and capable of solving problems. I can interact with them on a more mature level -- there is more give-and-take. I just have to remind myself that they have opinions, and feelings, and preferences that matter just as much as my own do. I try to protect and guide them, but recognize that they are companions as well, due the same level of respect that I would give an adult companion.

[heartmama]

Nodding along with mamaduck

Hitting--it sounds like you are in a rut, with both of you hitting each other. Take this with a grain of salt--when I see bigger kids who hit their parents I sometimes notice an interesting dynamic. What I notice is that these are parents that will be too nice, too nice, too nice, SNAP, too nice, too nice, too nice, SNAP, too nice, too nice, too nice, SNAP. It is this too nice/snap dynamic that sets up a situation where the parent isn't always listened too or respected because the kid knows when the parent is in "too nice" mode--in that mode the kid can get away with behaviors that really shouldn't be happening. They know when the parent 'snaps', they have to listen. But otherwise, not so much. Plus, if the parent 'snaps' and resorts to the same behavior they want to stop, their child definitely won't hear the message 'stop'.

Maybe that has nothing to do with your situation, but I see it enough that it might help to mention it. If you think that may be your situation, I recommend being consistent as much as possible--do not give yourself permission to 'snap' and resort to hitting. But do set clear boundaries/consequences instead of being 'too nice' all the time.

[earthus76]

My 8 y.o. daughter has been hitting me lately... and calling me dummy. With the hitting, it happens when she's getting really frustrated (as am I so I end up operating out of a negative frame of mind...and just 'reacting') - so there are alot of signs leading up to the hit. I am trying to recognize when she's on the brink - step back - and encourage her to stomp her foot, hit the couch, yell... something that will help her diffuse the rising tide of emotion.

I'm trying to on some playful parenting when being called a dummy. For example, In a silly voice: "Oh, I am so dumb... I'm supposed to put this hat on my foot, right?" Which will lead to laughter and then a little talk can happen about how it is much more peaceful to express your feelings with words that are not hurtful. And then we might practice it.

[Magella]

I just wanted to add that as my kids get older, I find that it gets easier to ask for their input when problems are occurring and to work together with them to find solutions. This is how, for example, we came to understand that dd likes and wants to attend karate but has trouble with the transition, and came to the decision with her that she will keep attending. This is how we came up with our "rule" of no tv on school nights. Sometimes it takes a few tries to really come up with a solution that works and lasts, but I do find that things go much more smoothly when I'm involving the children in the process of problem solving.

Someone once posted a great link about family meetings, where you brainstorm together to solve problems. This is an approach that is great for many families. I find that it needn't be a formal, planned meeting. And probably the most important piece of solving problems together is taking the time to understand what each other's concerns are, rather than just each putting our solutions on the table. (Two competing solutions=a power struggle. It's much easier to reconcile two concerns.) And inviting the kids to come up with their own ideas, and taking those ideas seriously (really being open-minded about them, and talking about how this or that idea might work out), really can lead to some very creative (and more peaceful) solutions.

[Alyantavid]

I haven't read the responses so hopefully I'm not repeating anything.

I have a 6.5 year old as well and our biggest issue his arguing. I tend to be argumentative and he's the same way so we have lots to bicker about. I have to constantly remind myself that he's 6, I'm 27. And then I stop.

I finally sat down with him, wrote up some basic rules and the consequences for breaking them, and rewards for not breaking them. The biggest thing that has helped recently was almost completely stopping screen time. We watch no tv, except on weekends where they watch cartoons and then maybe a movie. Video games are for weekends only and for 1 hour max. His behavior after playing video games is horrific. He does get computer time most nights but he spends it working on his spelling words.

We have a fairly structured schedule. The same things happen at basically the same times. I make sure he has a snack as soon as we walk in the door from school or its meltdown city. He has to be in bed by 8 or he's a grouch.

We don't do many activities. Dh and both work fulltime and have a 2 year old also. We never do more than 1 activity at a time, its just too much, for him and us. We sign him up for things he wants to do. He played tball and did junior golf last summer and has requested basketball this winter. He tends to burn out on these activities fairly quickly but at this age, they don't last long, but it gives him a taste of what its all about and he can decide if he wants to do it next year or not.